Friedman: Penguins have "tested the market" for Kessel

[hooverdam]

If you want factual evidence look no further than Kessel being traded to Pit. We saw the return, clearly Toronto traded him for the best offer they got so we can safely assume how he's perceived by GMs around the league.

This completely ignores all the context surrounding the Kessel trade. It's laughable.

Kessel had a NTC and he loaded up his list with all the teams that had the cap space to actually acquire him. That left Pittsburgh and virtually no one else with the cap space to take on his contract with minimal retention and without moving significant salary back (Toronto didn't want significant roster pieces back, they wanted to tank for Matthews).

Shanahan spent almost half the summer going "Well maybe we'll just keep him!" before finally admitting that yes, they had to trade him and yes, they had barely any teams to trade him to and Pittsburgh was pretty much the only viable dance partner.

 

[Gurglesons]

If I’m the Pens, I do Spurgeron and Nino for Maatta and Kessel every day of the week.

 

[TT1]

Max Pacioretty's return was arguably better than Erik Karlsson's. Who do you think GM's value more?

The idea that they traded him to Pittsburgh for the best offer is also not factual. There are recent examples of teams not trading players for the best offer, be it to spite a rival, or simply to not play the player. Ottawa is a good example, and didnt Vancouver take a lesser return on Schneider than what NJ Offered? Maybe it wasnt Schneider but i feel like there was a trade with Van (i believe) that Edm offered more, and Van said no on principle.

this must just be me "not understanding" hockey though, right?

Pacioretty got traded with an agreed upon extension in place, Karlsson got traded basically as an impending UFA. Try again. You understand hockey tho.

 

[TGWL]

Theoretically... could the Leafs trade back for him, undo the retention, and give another team a reason to take on his salary at full hit?

I want to say i'm 99.9 % certain the answer is no, but maybe? I think if you trade a player while retaining money, you cannot trade back until a year has passed if the second team is retaining any salary, assuming the contact didn't expire. If the second team doesn't retain any salary, the player can be traded back before that hold period. Now I'm not sure what happens beyond that point if the player is traded again.

 

[Starat327]

Pacioretty got traded with an agreed upon extension in place, Karlsson got traded basically as a UFA. Try again. You understand hockey tho.

And Kessel's trade was HEAVILY i mpacted by him loading his "cant trade me here" list with teams that could actually afford him.

I appreciate you proving my point that context is important in hockey trades, though.

No comment on the idea that players arent always traded for the best return possible?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

As a Pens fan I love Kessel. I'm not interested in moving him.

Also as a Pens fan, I ain't even surprised by this. Sully has his players and style and Kessel isn't one of them.

 

[TT1]

And Kessel's trade was HEAVILY i mpacted by him loading his "cant trade me here" list with teams that could actually afford him.

I appreciate you proving my point that context is important in hockey trades, though.

No comment on the idea that players arent always traded for the best return possible?

Your comparison of Pacioretty and Karlsson is laughable because their situation was completely different, i like how you're trying to cover your tracks tho. Also Kessels 8 team NTC should still be in effect so that point is moot.

 

[Starat327]

Your comparison of Pacioretty and Karlsson is laughable because their situation was completely different, i like how you're trying to cover your tracks tho. Also Kessels 8 team NTC should still be in effect so that point is moot.

Nope, it was a very simple question, and you cant answer it, because you know it goes against everything you just said. Talking in circles has been fun, but i think i've proven my point. Enjoy the rest of your day, up there.

 

[TT1]

Nope, it was a very simple question, and you cant answer it, because you know it goes against everything you just said. Talking in circles has been fun, but i think i've proven my point. Enjoy the rest of your day, up there.

What? Your question was idiotic and has nothing to do with what my original argument, that's why i ignored it. Obviously players don't always get moved for the best possible return (division rivals and such) but that's impossible to keep track of so you disregard it when talking about factual evidence.

If i'm in the clouds god knows where you are.

Simply put this argument boils down to you being ok with having a worse case scenario Kessel on your team (60 points) whereas i'd use that money differently. Good chat buddy, i hope your team ends up trading for him. Kessel is the type of player teams don't mind trading to division rivals .

And as mentioned theres a reason why theres always rumors are always swirling around Kessel every year.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Something around Vlasic for Kessel?

 

[AK87]

Sooner or later the Pens will have to blow things up and start a re-build when their core starts getting older. But I would hold on to Kessel for now and see where this season takes them.

 

[attaamillo]

I think the only way that a Kessel trade happens is if the Penguins somehow improve right now by making the trade, which is really tough to do with most teams. With the Wild, it basically has to be something like Spurgeon and Niederreiter/Coyle/Zucker for Kessel and Oleksiak/Maatta/Johnson. Would Minnesota do that? I wouldn't if I was Minny's GM.

Nothing against Spurgeon but I'd prefer either Dumba or Brodin

 

[member 157595]

If he’s in any way available the Oilers should move heaven and earth to make it happen.

In Toronto he was best when he could drive a line and had room to both create and shoot. He could keep up with McDavid (well, no one can really do that, but you know what I mean) but I don't think they'd have good chemistry. I think he'd be a great RW for Drai though.

 

[attaamillo]

Do any one for one hockey deals make sense for Kessel?

Maybe a team overloaded with LW... or a team 'down' on a star winger.... or pretty equal value and just a spark for both teams? Just thinking out loud as that seems to have become Rutherford's M.O.

 

[Bazeek]

Nothing against Spurgeon but I'd prefer either Dumba or Brodin

Minnesota would probably be more comfortable parting with Brodin than Spurgeon in a trade like this. Dumba wouldn't be available.

 

[attaamillo]

Kessel for Parayko?

 

[Dustin]

Doesn't Kessel have a 10 team trade list. Also how much could Pittsburgh retain on top of Toronto retaining?

 

[Starat327]

Kessel for Parayko?

St Louis isnt going near that deal.

 

[Starat327]

Doesn't Kessel have a 10 team trade list. Also how much could Pittsburgh retain on top of Toronto retaining?

8, according to cap friendly. I believe they can retain up to 50%. I think there was a weird scenario where someone was traded with double retention totaling above 50%, but im not positive, i could be going off a memory of a bad post.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Wait, what is that smell?

Horseshit.

 

[Moskau]

If you watch the Arizona 2018 Draft Video it's very apparent he was very close to being traded to Arizona during the Summer.

 

[Dustin]

8, according to cap friendly. I believe they can retain up to 50%. I think there was a weird scenario where someone was traded with double retention totaling above 50%, but im not positive, i could be going off a memory of a bad post.

Right 8. I doubt he wants to leave Pittsburgh so his 8 team list will probably be similar to the one he had in Toronto where it was made to be very difficult to move him.

 

[Cor]

If you watch the Arizona 2018 Draft Video it's very apparent he was very close to being traded to Arizona during the Summer.

Really? Can you provide more info or a link to the video?


I love draft videos. The NHL should make every team do a behind the draft video, and then release them one by one starting like July 7th or something.

I'd be even willing to bet fans would pay like, 5 bucks to see all 31 or something.

 

[Starat327]

Right 8. I doubt he wants to leave Pittsburgh so his 8 team list will probably be similar to the one he had in Toronto where it was made to be very difficult to move him.

Possible. Also possible that hes ok with going wherever he feels comfortable and wanted now that hes won two cups, too. Only Kessel knows what his thoughts/feelings would be.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Right 8. I doubt he wants to leave Pittsburgh so his 8 team list will probably be similar to the one he had in Toronto where it was made to be very difficult to move him.

This is true, but Minnesota seems like an incredible fit to acquire him and they're almost definitely on his 8 team list. They were one of the 8 teams on his list in 2015.