Post-Game Talk: Penguins 3, Capitals 2 - SAVE US #30

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harmonica

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Apr 21, 2007
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But that's kinda the point. Because of how talented and deep we are, we force bad performances from opposition goaltenders, which slowly start getting into their head and from there it's downhill...

I get where you are coming from, but why don't these guys play like this against other people? Headcases would be headcases whenever they get rattled. Saying its just against us, really truly points to somebody else.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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He looked strong as a complimentary piece on strong lines, where he got plenty of space and there was plenty of chaos at the net for him to work with.

But he's never consistently impressed me on the 4th line where he has to take more of a role of his own. Ditto Simon for that matter.

Tbh, wait and see, but I think ZAR would be better placed in WBS next season.

Simon creates all kinds of offense on his own, and is inherently more skilled than ZAR. He just lacks finish right now, and has for the last couple seasons. It blows because his first year with WBS he was sniping goals, then got snake bitten or something just changed and he couldn’t score in the A either... just sucks.
 

The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
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No Malkin and Hagelin? No Problem.
No Crosby and Letang? No Problem.

If Caps can't beat us down so many big players for us they are gonna have a hard time beating us when we have a full healthy roster. It's like they get closer to where they are going and look up and the place stretches further and further away like when I was high and drunk 1 time and everything seemed like it was getting further and further away the closer I got to it.
if you can remember it....... you weren't drunk. at least by my standards :)
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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I get where you are coming from, but why don't these guys play like this against other people? Headcases would be headcases whenever they get rattled. Saying its just against us, really truly points to somebody else.

I don't think anyone is saying those guys are headcases all the time - just against us. Which, yes, points to something else.

... I think most people here agree on the jist of what is going on, just not the terminology used.

Simon creates all kinds of offense on his own, and is inherently more skilled than ZAR. He just lacks finish right now, and has for the last couple seasons. It blows because his first year with WBS he was sniping goals, then got snake bitten or something just changed and he couldn’t score in the A either... just sucks.

He was doing some lovely snipes earlier in the year. I don't get what's happening with him, he seems so inconsistent to me.
 

madinsomniac

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Jul 3, 2012
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I don't buy the goalie headcases against us and only us mentality. We don't go to game 7 against the Caps last year if Holtby is a headcase. We don't get bounced by the Rangers in 2014 and 2015 if Lundqvist is a headcase against us. Bob has a career of playing bad in the playoffs no matter who he is against, which is also a bi-product of the team he has in front of him and the coach. No doubt the mental aspect plays in to winning/losing, but I just don't put too much faith in to it, especially at this level of competition. Hell, we had the biggest "headcase" of them all carry us through most of the playoffs last year. We play with fire when we write somebody off that way, especially players of their caliber.

It also takes away from:
-how talented and deep we are
-how good our coach is
-how Sully has helped turn us in to mentally strong and resilient team
-how well the organization is currently run

These are truest reasons these goalies are not performing well against us. Not that they are headcases.

please... gaolies always break down vs us... we have had more HOF type goalies pulled than anyone else this era... they break down the gaolies fundamentals because of the skill... the goalie starts chasing phantom shots and passes and cheating off the post... that is the hockey definition of mental breakdowns.... thats not even disputable
 
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madinsomniac

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That would be more than interesting. Series is over if this sequence of events happens. Holtby is an elite goalie, and the Pens make him look average. Trotz would be feeding Grubauer to the wolves.

BUT TRotz is basically fired if he loses this series right? he will get desperate and hope the change rally's them much like the switch to Holtby did the previous series....

I dont think it will be a good idea but it may steal them a game while we adjust... (if we win on sunday, that is)
 

harmonica

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Apr 21, 2007
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please... gaolies always break down vs us... we have had more HOF type goalies pulled than anyone else this era... they break down the gaolies fundamentals because of the skill... the goalie starts chasing phantom shots and passes and cheating off the post... that is the hockey definition of mental breakdowns.... thats not even disputable

Like I said, there is no doubt that the mental aspect is part of it, however chalking it up to that more than anything else is flawed and takes away from our accomplishments. It also allows us to create false narrative when we lose. There is a huge difference between mental breakdowns and being a headcase.
 
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3074326

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Apr 9, 2009
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Pretty sure we started 2-0 last year against them.

I thought they had won game 1 the last couple years.. but I was mistaken. It's been such a wild ride. I was sure they took game 1 the last couple seasons.

Doesn't matter. They didn't this year either. :laugh:
 

MrBurghundy

I may be older but I'm never forgetting #47 & #41
Oct 5, 2009
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I thought they had won game 1 the last couple years.. but I was mistaken. It's been such a wild ride. I was sure they took game 1 the last couple seasons.

Doesn't matter. They didn't this year either. :laugh:

Last year we won games 1, 2, 4, and 7.

The year before we won games 2, 3, 4 and 6.
 
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madinsomniac

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Like I said, there is no doubt that the mental aspect is part of it, however chalking it up to that more than anything else is flawed and takes away from our accomplishments. It also allows us to create false narrative when we lose. There is a huge difference between mental breakdowns and being a headcase.

When the same goalies do the same things against the same team they are headcases.... Holtby immeadiately began second guessing himself after just 1 goal... he looked like someone shot his cat by the third... contrast that with Murray after what looked like a game clinching second goal... absolutely no response emotionally and no change in playstyle...

lets put this in another perspective... Murray gets beat high glove side top corner more than anything else... thats also the hardest shot to make... he usually shuts down everything low to medium range...
When a team is perpetually making that high glove side shot, he doesnt change to compensate for that and expose himself to the much easier lower shots... The Caps were making the cross crease pass with regularity yesterday... something that mentally breaks down goalies more than anything else... yet he stayed tight to the post on the shooter all the time, and made spectacular saves when they did get a shot on net... but never exposed that short side shot... The caps took several shots hoping he would cheat... he never did...

Holtby does cheat... he started out playing fundamentally strong, but as the Pens were getting shots past him (but not in) he started to adjust... and the Pens took advantage of that...
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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He was doing some lovely snipes earlier in the year. I don't get what's happening with him, he seems so inconsistent to me.

Unlike ZAR he keeps creating these chances for himself, so hopefully his luck will change. If he could find his scoring touch from a couple yrs ago that would make this team even more dangerous and difficult to defend.

I’ll take just one of Simon or Sheary finding their long lost scoring touch, I’m not a greedy person...
 
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Allie Kitsune

...and the Brawla Brawla Sewitt
Jan 7, 2006
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please... gaolies always break down vs us... we have had more HOF type goalies pulled than anyone else this era... they break down the gaolies fundamentals because of the skill... the goalie starts chasing phantom shots and passes and cheating off the post... that is the hockey definition of mental breakdowns.... thats not even disputable

It's just a shame that none of them throw even remotely as entertaining tantrums as Hank does.
 

NastyNick

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Sep 7, 2007
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I get where you are coming from, but why don't these guys play like this against other people? Headcases would be headcases whenever they get rattled. Saying its just against us, really truly points to somebody else.

I've noticed the Penguins go east-west a lot when they are in the zone. This seems like aimless passing to us watching, but i think it definitely plays a part in how they are able to wear goalies down. Every time the puck goes east to west - the goalie has to get up, move, and re position. The entire lineup of the Penguins is set up so they can easily move pucks around the zone. All guys are set up with the right handedness so its natural for them. This tires out the goalie to the point where he is more prone to make simple mistakes... like leave an extra 6 inches on the short side for not close his 5 hole fast enough.
 
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madinsomniac

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Jul 3, 2012
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I've noticed the Penguins go east-west a lot when they are in the zone. This seems like aimless passing to us watching, but i think it definitely plays a part in how they are able to wear goalies down. Every time the puck goes east to west - the goalie has to get up, move, and re position. The entire lineup of the Penguins is set up so they can easily move pucks around the zone. All guys are set up with the right handedness so its natural for them. This tires out the goalie to the point where he is more prone to make simple mistakes... like leave an extra 6 inches on the short side for not close his 5 hole fast enough.

Yes... and i want to point out... it is absolutely our skill that makes goalies meltdown vs us... but they absolutely do meltdown....

Its also why backup goalies with little experiance playing us do so well vs us, I think... untill we burn them several times on the tic tac toe type goals they just play normal fundamental hockey, and when we dont score we start trying to get too perfect and pass up too many shots... Once they play us a few times and start anticipating that final crazy pass they are toast....
 
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