LeBrun: Pavelski to visit Tampa and Dallas this week (Friedman: Pavelski to initiate talks with Stars)

[Limekiller]

I don't think you will find really ANY Sharks fans that are happy about Pavelski leaving. That said, I doubt you'll find many of the same fans that will in any way fault him for going for a big payday at this point in his career. He is definitely really slow (and getting slower), but he's still an excellent player, and I am not sure how the Sharks are going to replace his goal scoring and leadership. I do hope he ends up with Tampa instead of Dallas, though, since I don't want him to stay in the same conference, resulting in us playing against him several times a year, and I'd feel way less depressed about him winning a cup with Tampa than I would with Dallas winning.

All that said, I don't even really disagree with the idea that it's time for the team and Pavelski to part ways, much like we did with Marleau 2 years ago. I'm not sure we'd have given him an offer anything like what other teams are going to, even if we hadn't re-signed EK65, given that no negotiations on an extension happened in the 2+ months between the end of the 2017-18 season and when we acquired EK. Honestly, I think the teams that could *most* use Pavelski are some of those teams with tons of young talent, but with bad locker rooms or no real veteran leadership. Buffalo would kind of be the example franchise for what I'm talking about here, and I could have seen him going there since they're not *that* far off from being serious competitors with the amount of talent they've been accumulating. A team that could desperately use Pavelski to straighten out their locker room culture and provide real leadership would be Edmonton, but even if they *did* have the cap to afford him, I can't see him going there. I can very definitely understand him prioritizing immediate cup readiness, though, and passing on teams that are a bit further away.

Regardless, it really will be a sad day when we officially lose Captain America. Just like Marleau, though, a brief few years at the end of their careers won't change anything about them being Sharks for life. I am sure he would always be welcomed back on a 1-day contract so he can retire a Shark, and if he doesn't come back before that (*cough* Marleau *cough*), I think that's exactly what will happen.

 

[BB88]

You didn't watch his playoff performance then my man. He was consistently one of the best players on the ice out in BOTH series. We're really not even close to concerned.

Absolutely watched, but did you read my post?

How can 1 8 point playoff run make someone a proven #2C in this league?
The season is 82 games+ the playoffs, consistency is a pretty big thing and he's unproven at that.
Both in the AHL& NHL.

There ought not to be too much to expect and for that reason when a rookie like Hintz shows that offensive spark over half a season + playoffs, that is a major improvement. Unless he drops off a cliff, he will be expected to continue what he did last season.


Mind you, that empty spot could also be Jason Dickinson. Is that also an unknown? Yes. IMO, he plays more like he'd be an effective 3rd liner, but he has shown more offensive spark than he ever did.

That just doesn't seem like a 2nd line on a contender.

Their defense, net& 1st line is there but even with Pavelski can't help but to feel they need 1 more quality forward addition.

Dallas has a shot at being really good next season, but again 2 unproven players in the top6 seems too risky for it.

 

[hairylikebear]

Unproven players can't be relied upon in the POs. Players become proven by playing well in the POs. Catch-22

 

[Sol]

Watch that Beaver re-sign with the Sharks.

All this is just a big flex.

 

[Horse McHindu]

So San Jose pays Karlsson a fortune, and anger Pavelski in the process.......a guy that gave his heart and soul to the Sharks for years.

“He got paid.....why am I not getting paid?”

Given Karlsson’s new premium contract, I wonder what someone like Timo Maier will want?

“He got paid.....and so I want to get paid.”

 

[Kegsey]

So San Jose pays Karlsson a fortune, and anger Pavelski in the process.......a guy that gave his heart and soul to the Sharks for years.

“He got paid.....why am I not getting paid?”

Given Karlsson’s new premium contract, I wonder what someone like Timo Maier will want?

“He got paid.....and so I want to get paid.”

A fortune. Panarin wants 12+ but 11.5 for Erik f***ing Karlsson is a fortune. Loved Pavs during his time here but I'm excited for Erik Karlsson era in San Jose.

 

[Horse McHindu]

A fortune. Panarin wants 12+ but 11.5 for Erik ****ing Karlsson is a fortune. Loved Pavs during his time here but I'm excited for Erik Karlsson era in San Jose.

Sharks will likely stay in the same spot that they've been in all these years (i.e. a great regular season team with some very respectable playoff outings, but no cup wins).

Cost controlled elite talent + depth = championships.

The cup winners of the last 10+ years all adopted and implemented this philosophy.

With Pavelski's passive aggression here, I will again ask this question. What type of money and term will someone like Timo Maier demand? Would he be willing to take a discount in the name of winning?........or will this whole Karlsson/Maier scenario play out like Tavares/Nylander? My guess is that it might be the latter.

"He got paid and so I want to get paid."

 

[Kegsey]

Sharks will likely stay in the same spot that they've been in all these years (i.e. a great regular season team with some very respectable playoff outings, but no cup wins).

Cost controlled elite talent + depth = championships.

The cup winners of the last 10+ years all adopted and implemented this philosophy.

With Pavelski's passive aggression here, I will again ask this question. What type of money and term will someone like Timo Maier demand? Would he be willing to take a discount in the name of winning?........or will this whole Karlsson/Maier scenario play out like Tavares/Nylander? My guess is that it might be the latter.

"He got paid and so I want to get paid."

So you're saying Doug Wilson should have let 29 year old Erik Karlsson sign somewhere else, and pay Pavelski too much just because of loyalty, but then you say we need cost controlled contracts to win championships? Never change HF.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Absolutely watched, but did you read my post?

How can 1 8 point playoff run make someone a proven #2C in this league?
The season is 82 games+ the playoffs, consistency is a pretty big thing and he's unproven at that.
Both in the AHL& NHL.

Yes, Hintz does need to show that he's consistent, but last season showed that there is enough evidence of a skillet to be quite optimistic for the future.

That just doesn't seem like a 2nd line on a contender.

Contender? At this juncture, if the team makes it two straight years in the playoffs, there would be celebrations.

Their defense, net& 1st line is there but even with Pavelski can't help but to feel they need 1 more quality forward addition.

Dallas has a shot at being really good next season, but again 2 unproven players in the top6 seems too risky for it.

The problem is that our GM/management over the years somehow doesn't seem to draft those high-ceiling/low-floor players with those middle first rounders. It's a common theme going back to Brenden Morrow.

The problem with this recent management is also that it doesn't sense that a draft pick isn't working out until too late (see Nichushkin or Gonna). They have yet to deal away any of their first round picks for immediate help, and has basically seen Benn's prime years go away without much success during which time two 1st round picks have busted.

One can only expect that management is going to do what they have always done- Tell coaching staff to find spots for their draftees- and not do anything different.

 

[Horse McHindu]

So you're saying Doug Wilson should have let 29 year old Erik Karlsson sign somewhere else, and pay Pavelski too much just because of loyalty, but then you say we need cost controlled contracts to win championships? Never change HF.

I never said, pay Pavelski too much.

What I am saying is that Pavelski likely would have taken a discounted contract of some kind, if he had been given the term.

A large part of what has made San Jose so successful all of this time, is that their top stars have “bought in” and taken discounts. This was the culture that San Jose has created.

This will now change with the Karlsson contract.

I seriously doubt that any young Shark player coming up will take less money in the name of building a winner. Meanwhile, San Jose’s core players that have been there for a long time, will now start to face age related decline.

 

[MAHJ71]

Hope he stays in the West and signs with Dallas

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

I never said, pay Pavelski too much.

What I am saying is that Pavelski likely would have taken a discounted contract of some kind, if he had been given the term.

A large part of what has made San Jose so successful all of this time, is that their top stars have “bought in” and taken discounts. This was the culture that San Jose has created.

This will now change with the Karlsson contract.

I seriously doubt that any young Shark player coming up will take less money in the name of building a winner. Meanwhile, San Jose’s core players that have been there for a long time, will now start to face age related decline.

Kane at $7M x 7 years was not a discounted rate.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Maybe the Sharks can get Pavelski back for $1 after a couple of seasons?

 

[ElGuapo]

Mind you, that empty spot could also be Jason Dickinson. Is that also an unknown? Yes. IMO, he plays more like he'd be an effective 3rd liner, but he has shown more offensive spark than he ever did.

Do you mean Dickinson showed more offensive spark in the playoffs than he ever did previous to that? Despite a spot on the second line he had 5 points in 13 playoff games. Only a slightly higher pace than the regular season. He's shown no signs yet in his career of being a top six player. Hopefully there will be another option that steps up.

 

[ElGuapo]

You’re probably looking at 60/55/45/40 points.

That might be optimistic. Last year in a more offensive system, he'd have had 45-50 points if his shooting percentage hadn't have been at an astronomical 20.2%.

So maybe 45 next year and down from there. Hope that's wrong and he can be a 50-60 point player for at least a couple years.

 

[ElGuapo]

Absolutely watched, but did you read my post?

How can 1 8 point playoff run make someone a proven #2C in this league?
The season is 82 games+ the playoffs, consistency is a pretty big thing and he's unproven at that.
Both in the AHL& NHL.

Why are you just counting his playoff run? He also produced at a top six rate for the last 1/4 to 1/3 of the season once he became a regular. He's not a sure thing but there's enough of a sample size to think he can do it.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Do you mean Dickinson showed more offensive spark in the playoffs than he ever did previous to that? Despite a spot on the second line he had 5 points in 13 playoff games. Only a slightly higher pace than the regular season. He's shown no signs yet in his career of being a top six player. Hopefully there will be another option that steps up.

Yes, and I also said he's better off as a 3rd liner with Faksa, but I cannot predict what management has in store for him.

 

[Kegsey]

I never said, pay Pavelski too much.

What I am saying is that Pavelski likely would have taken a discounted contract of some kind, if he had been given the term.

A large part of what has made San Jose so successful all of this time, is that their top stars have “bought in” and taken discounts. This was the culture that San Jose has created.

This will now change with the Karlsson contract.

I seriously doubt that any young Shark player coming up will take less money in the name of building a winner. Meanwhile, San Jose’s core players that have been there for a long time, will now start to face age related decline.

He's not taking a discount and it doesn't even matter. You go after the best player available and for us that was Erik Karlsson, not the 35 year old declining winger coming off two head injuries a month ago.

 

[Horse McHindu]

He's not taking a discount and it doesn't even matter. You go after the best player available and for us that was Erik Karlsson, not the 35 year old declining winger coming off two head injuries a month ago.

Fair enough, but again.......

1) Look at the cup winners over the past ten years.
2) Look at the cap hits to the top players that those cup winning teams had.
3) look at those core players from those cup winning teams and see how much (or should I say, how little) percent of the overall team cap that their cap hits took (for Most of those cup winning teams, it was in the early 30’s......one of Pittsburgh’s teams and Washington’s teams exceeded 35% and got to around 37-38%). Look at St.Louis and Boston this year.

 

[Kegsey]

Fair enough, but again.......

1) Look at the cup winners over the past ten years.
2) Look at the cap hits to the top players that those cup winning teams had.
3) look at those core players from those cup winning teams and see how much (or should I say, how little) percent of the overall team cap that their cap hits took (for Most of those cup winning teams, it was in the early 30’s......one of Pittsburgh’s teams and Washington’s teams exceeded 35% and got to around 37-38%). Look at St.Louis and Boston this year.

I don't give a shit about cup winners. There's a lot more that goes into winning a cup then the f***ing contracts. Your arm-chair GM takes are some of the worst I have ever seen. Point blank Erik Karlsson was the #1 priority to re-sign and if Pavelski wants too much money and is willing to walk then I can live with that. Once Meier is signed Pavelski walking won't even be on my radar, and whoever gives him $6m for 3 or more years is going to regret it.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I don't give a **** about cup winners.

So, you care about cup losers? Your comment confuses me. What do you care about?

There's a lot more that goes into winning a cup then the ****ing contracts.

Here is your homework:

1) Study the cap hits of the top players on the following teams.
2) Analyze the total percentage of the cap that these top players took.

2010: Chicago
2011: Boston
2012: LA
2013: Chicago
2014: LA
2015: Chicago
2016: Pittsburgh
2017: Pittsburgh
2018: Washington
2019: St. Louis

Your arm-chair GM takes are some of the worst I have ever seen.

Maybe........maybe not. All I know is this. I'm a firm believer in proven models, and over the past 10 years, the front-loaded top heavy teams have always taken a backseat to the Cost-controlled elite + depth teams. There's a reason why Crosby and Ovechkin went cupless between 2010-2015 despite being the two best players on the planet. There's a reason why Chicago and LA declined once Toews, Kane, and Kopitar received their "thank you" 10+ million dollar deals for their cup victories.

If "proven models of recent past success" are key indicators of the short term future, then my prediction is that San Jose will continue to play the role of the bridesmaid like they always have (i.e. a solid team that ultimately jobs to the cup champ), UNLESS the cap significantly increases over the coming years while Erik Karlsson maintains his level of play and stays healthy. It's possible........just doesn't seem likely.

If I'm picking a race horse for the short term future, I'm picking Colorado (while Nate MacK is still on that 6 million dollar contract, while Makar will have that ELC).

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I don't give a **** about cup winners. There's a lot more that goes into winning a cup then the ****ing contracts. Your arm-chair GM takes are some of the worst I have ever seen. Point blank Erik Karlsson was the #1 priority to re-sign and if Pavelski wants too much money and is willing to walk then I can live with that. Once Meier is signed Pavelski walking won't even be on my radar, and whoever gives him $6m for 3 or more years is going to regret it.

Right, like leadership, health, luck, and reliable goaltending. Letting Pavelski walk may not impact the Sharks in some important ways but I bet it does. You can always lean on the likes of Meier, Kane, and an ancient Thornton though.

 

[Timos Death Stare]

Sharks will likely stay in the same spot that they've been in all these years (i.e. a great regular season team with some very respectable playoff outings, but no cup wins).

Cost controlled elite talent + depth = championships.

The cup winners of the last 10+ years all adopted and implemented this philosophy.

With Pavelski's passive aggression here, I will again ask this question. What type of money and term will someone like Timo Maier demand? Would he be willing to take a discount in the name of winning?........or will this whole Karlsson/Maier scenario play out like Tavares/Nylander? My guess is that it might be the latter.

"He got paid and so I want to get paid."

There is no Pavelski aggresssion. You are literally making this up by assuming something and then running with it.

 

[Kegsey]

Right, like leadership, health, luck, and reliable goaltending. Letting Pavelski walk may not impact the Sharks in some important ways but I bet it does. You can always lean on the likes of Meier, Kane, and an ancient Thornton though.

Have you heard of such players as Logan Couture, Brent Burns, and Erik Karlsson for leadership?

 

[Kegsey]

So, you care about cup losers? Your comment confuses me. What do you care about?



Here is your homework:

1) Study the cap hits of the top players on the following teams.
2) Analyze the total percentage of the cap that these top players took.

2010: Chicago
2011: Boston
2012: LA
2013: Chicago
2014: LA
2015: Chicago
2016: Pittsburgh
2017: Pittsburgh
2018: Washington
2019: St. Louis




Maybe........maybe not. All I know is this. I'm a firm believer in proven models, and over the past 10 years, the front-loaded top heavy teams have always taken a backseat to the Cost-controlled elite + depth teams. There's a reason why Crosby and Ovechkin went cupless between 2010-2015 despite being the two best players on the planet. There's a reason why Chicago and LA declined once Toews, Kane, and Kopitar received their "thank you" 10+ million dollar deals for their cup victories.

If "proven models of recent past success" are key indicators of the short term future, then my prediction is that San Jose will continue to play the role of the bridesmaid like they always have (i.e. a solid team that ultimately jobs to the cup champ), UNLESS the cap significantly increases over the coming years while Erik Karlsson maintains his level of play and stays healthy. It's possible........just doesn't seem likely.

If I'm picking a race horse for the short term future, I'm picking Colorado (while Nate MacK is still on that 6 million dollar contract, while Makar will have that ELC).

Here's your homework.



Stop blasting your opinion as fact on a hockey forum. If Pavelski goes on to score 50 goals and win a cup next year sure maybe I'll be upset but as of right now, Pavelski walking and signing Karlsson is perfectly fine with me and the rest of the sane Sharks fans.

You guys are literally telling us how we should he mad and how big of a blow this is. It should tell you all something that Sharks fans aren't really upset.