LeBrun: Pavelski to visit Tampa and Dallas this week (Friedman: Pavelski to initiate talks with Stars)

[Gunnin54]

Man if he wasn’t a shark people wouldn’t be tryin to piss us off as much

 

[Horse McHindu]

No, Toews wasn’t taking up that cap percentage when they won. He signed his contract in 2014 but it didn’t kick in until 2015-2016 season. Chicago hasn’t won a playoff series since their $10.5M contracts kicked in.

You are correct sir.

Now THIS is a man that has clearly done his homework!

 

[Kegsey]

Man if he wasn’t a shark people wouldn’t be tryin to piss us off as much

My favorite comment is that without Pavelski the Sharks lack leadership. If Marleau comes back we would have two ex Sharks captains and Karlsson with Couture, Burns and Vlasic.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

You are correct sir.

Now THIS is a man that has clearly done his homework!

It seems as though you ignored the other "homework" that I did when it didn't fit your agenda. So let's have a lesson here.

In the cap era, here is first contract signed by every defenseman with a Norris Trophy to their name at the time of signing.

As you can see, Karlsson is paid significantly less relative to his production than every other defenseman on the list. His cap hit percentage of 14.47% is also less than the average cap hit percentage of these defensemen of 14.66%.

Now, it's time for a homework assignment for you. There are 3 defensemen on this list with a higher cap hit percentage than Karlsson: Nicklas Lidstrom, Scott Niedermayer, and Chris Pronger. Which of those 3 defensemen won a Stanley Cup while playing on the contract listed above?

 

[Horse McHindu]

My favorite comment is that without Pavelski the Sharks lack leadership. If Marleau comes back we would have two ex Sharks captains and Karlsson with Couture, Burns and Vlasic.

Sharks' core is getting very long in the tooth. Given that this past-season was pre-Karlsson and pre-Meier extension, the Sharks' best chance at winning a cup may have just passed....atleast for the next little while. Time will tell obviously.

 

[WSS11]

You are correct sir.

Now THIS is a man that has clearly done his homework!

My point still stands with Pittsburgh

 

[Horse McHindu]

It seems as though you ignored the other "homework" that I did when it didn't fit your agenda. So let's have a lesson here.

In the cap era, here is first contract signed by every defenseman with a Norris Trophy to their name at the time of signing.

View attachment 241505

As you can see, Karlsson is paid significantly less relative to his production than every other defenseman on the list. His cap hit percentage of 14.47% is also less than the average cap hit percentage of these defensemen of 14.66%.

Now, it's time for a homework assignment for you. There are 3 defensemen on this list with a higher cap hit percentage than Karlsson: Nicklas Lidstrom, Scott Niedermayer, and Chris Pronger. Which of those 3 defensemen won a Stanley Cup while playing on the contract listed above?

The scope of my argument was, "cup winners over the last 10 years" (actually, 9 since I started at 2010).

When the lock-out first ended, team salary caps were extremely low (2006, 2007, etc.). Therefore, your references to Niedermayer, Pronger, and Lidstrom are out of scope (my guess is that you are referencing their 2007 and 2008 cup victories?) Those were very different times back then.

 

[SharksFan17]

Sharks' core is getting very long in the tooth. Given that this past-season was pre-Karlsson and pre-Meier extension, the Sharks' best chance at winning a cup may have just passed....atleast for the next little while. Time will tell obviously.

The sharks core got just as much older as every other team's core... 1 year older. Most of that core is entering the prime years so it would seem the future is not a bleak as you make it out to be. Sure they have some older vets to shepherd the new crew in but they are still effective in the roles they are being asked to do. Pavs is a perfect player to play a role in that ( leadership/scoring touch around the net) but unfortunately other teams will value that higher than the sharks are willing to pay for that role at this time so that's the breaks. This will leave a bit of a hole for them to fill but that will also give some young guys (which you think are so important) a chance to step up as well as some cap room to be used elsewhere. Sharks will be fine, they may not score as much as they did last year but they probably won't give up as much as last year either.

 

[Kegsey]

Sharks' core is getting very long in the tooth. Given that this past-season was pre-Karlsson and pre-Meier extension, the Sharks' best chance at winning a cup may have just passed....atleast for the next little while. Time will tell obviously.

That wasn't what I said. The argument was that the Sharks lack leadership without Pavelski which is the furthest thing from the truth, not to mention once again you're moving the goal posts because three of the players mentioned are younger than Pavelski so again, is it leadership that matters or a young core? You can't even keep your own points straight.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The scope my argument was, "cup winners over the last 10 years" (actually, 9 since I started at 2010).

When the lock-out first ended, team salary caps were extremely low (2006, 2007, etc.). Therefore, your references to Niedermayer, Pronger, and Lidstrom are out of scope (my guess is that you are referencing their 2007 and 2008 cup victories?) Those were very different times back then.

In your arbitrary time frame, 4 out of 10 Cup winners had a player whose cap hit% at the time of signing their contract was higher than Karlsson’s.

2011 - Chara (17.05%)
2016 - Crosby (14.50%), Malkin (14.77%)
2017 - Crosby (14.50%), Malkin (14.77%)
2018 - Ovechkin (16.82%)

Strange how we are in “very different times” now, yet 3 of the last 4 Cup winners had a guy with a higher C.H% than Karlsson.

Then, if you scrap the arbitrary time frames and just look at the entire post-lockout era:

2007 - Pronger (16.03%), Niedermayer (17.31%)
2008 - Lidstrom (17.27%)
2009 - Crosby (17.30%)

14 Stanley Cup winners in the salary cap era, and 7 of them had a player on their roster whose cap hit % was higher than Karlsson’s at the time of the signing.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

That wasn't what I said. The argument was that the Sharks lack leadership without Pavelski which is the furthest thing from the truth, not to mention once again you're moving the goal posts because three of the players mentioned are younger than Pavelski so again, is it leadership that matters or a young core? You can't even keep your own points straight.

Well, if you get Marleau back you'll have two players who had the "C" stripped from them.

 

[Gilligans Island]

In your arbitrary time frame, 4 out of 10 Cup winners had a player whose cap hit% at the time of signing their contract was higher than Karlsson’s.

2011 - Chara (17.05%)
2016 - Crosby (14.50%), Malkin (14.77%)
2017 - Crosby (14.50%), Malkin (14.77%)
2018 - Ovechkin (16.82%)

Strange how we are in “very different times” now, yet 3 of the last 4 Cup winners had a guy with a higher C.H% than Karlsson.

Then, if you scrap the arbitrary time frames and just look at the entire post-lockout era:

2007 - Pronger (16.03%), Niedermayer (17.31%)
2008 - Lidstrom (17.27%)
2009 - Crosby (17.30%)

14 Stanley Cup winners in the salary cap era, and 7 of them had a player on their roster whose cap hit % was higher than Karlsson’s at the time of the signing.

Facts be damned! But the poster said "last 10 years only" so we must analyze only the last 10 years, not any further that that b/c his argument breaks down!

 

[Horse McHindu]

In your arbitrary time frame, 4 out of 10 Cup winners had a player whose cap hit% at the time of signing their contract was higher than Karlsson’s.

2011 - Chara (17.05%)
2016 - Crosby (14.50%), Malkin (14.77%)
2017 - Crosby (14.50%), Malkin (14.77%)
2018 - Ovechkin (16.82%)

Strange how we are in “very different times” now, yet 3 of the last 4 Cup winners had a guy with a higher C.H% than Karlsson.

Then, if you scrap the arbitrary time frames and just look at the entire post-lockout era:

2007 - Pronger (16.03%), Niedermayer (17.31%)
2008 - Lidstrom (17.27%)
2009 - Crosby (17.30%)

14 Stanley Cup winners in the salary cap era, and 7 of them had a player on their roster whose cap hit % was higher than Karlsson’s at the time of the signing.

Alright. Fair enough, and I stand corrected.

Good research on your part by the way.

All the best to the Sharks, and I mean that.

 

[Kegsey]

Well, if you get Marleau back you'll have two players who had the "C" stripped from them.

Which I mentioned but thanks for contributing.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Alright. Fair enough, and I stand corrected.

Good research on your part by the way.

All the best to the Sharks, and I mean that.

Major credit to you for this response!

 

[WesTheBest92]

So where is Pavelski going?

 

[MrHeiskanen]

So where is Pavelski going?

Dallas.

 

[Mafoofoo]

So where is Pavelski going?

He's joining the Green Bay Packers or the Dallas Stars

Most likely the Stars. Gonna suck to see him in that jersey

 

[Nordiques1979]

Probably Dallas, so that means Zuca is gone.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Well, if you get Marleau back you'll have two players who had the "C" stripped from them.

Which means next to nothing. Dustin Brown had it stripped, too.

 

[BB88]

Yes, Hintz does need to show that he's consistent, but last season showed that there is enough evidence of a skillet to be quite optimistic for the future.



Contender? At this juncture, if the team makes it two straight years in the playoffs, there would be celebrations.



The problem is that our GM/management over the years somehow doesn't seem to draft those high-ceiling/low-floor players with those middle first rounders. It's a common theme going back to Brenden Morrow.

The problem with this recent management is also that it doesn't sense that a draft pick isn't working out until too late (see Nichushkin or Gonna). They have yet to deal away any of their first round picks for immediate help, and has basically seen Benn's prime years go away without much success during which time two 1st round picks have busted.

One can only expect that management is going to do what they have always done- Tell coaching staff to find spots for their draftees- and not do anything different.

Which would make you agree he's not a proven top6 C.

The core guys(except Miro) are in their primes and with 1 more solid move they could push for contending, why settle for this and not go for it without going all in?

 

[Ajacied]

Which would make you agree he's not a proven top6 C.

The core guys(except Miro) are in their primes and with 1 more solid move they could push for contending, why settle for this and not go for it without going all in?

Because Nill..

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Which would make you agree he's not a proven top6 C.

The core guys(except Miro) are in their primes and with 1 more solid move they could push for contending, why settle for this and not go for it without going all in?

I agree he isn't proven, but you can't just expect management to add pieces when there are issues (of their own creation) to navigate like, the monies currently tied up with bottom six players whom don't really produce or the not so deep talent pool filled with prospects that (IMO) look more like top 9 than genuine top-six talent.

Never mind the notion that to add better pieces that truly make the team a contender for a short span would cost the team Hintz and Heiskanen. If Nill balked at Ottawa's request for Hintz for Karlsson, you can expect him to stand pat and let Hintz continue on his journey

 

[LT]

Pavelski to Dallas on a 3 year deal (around $7M AAV) likely