Coach Discussion: Paul Maurice Pt II, The gooder, the badder, the uglier.

[Ducky10]

No one said goons. This notion that team put skill on 4th line is a joke. But most dressed on 4th lines can fight and hit and are junk yard dogs . Petan would get eaten alive by every 4th line in league. Tampa the best team in league has Joseph Paquette and Callahan. Not very skilled but very gritty. What you would expect from a 4th line. Petan can not survive as a 4th line player in this league.

Because not many teams are deep enough to do it, the Jets are. But that's fine, let's just do what everyone else does because that's the way the NHL works and always has. Why try to out skill a 4th line when you can just try to out grit each other.

Petan eaten alive by every 4th line, good grief man.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

You act as if Petan's development has been a straight even line, it hasn't been. Has not shown improvements? I disagree, yes it has, visibly and demonstrably. Lemieux will likely be a much different player after the next 85 games but by the same token, so will Petan. A better one imo and by my eye test.

Let me clarify, my dog in this fight is not Lemieux over Petan, its that putting either in the line up over the other, has zero reflection towards Maurice’s coaching abilities.

I also have not seen enough of a difference between either’s performance that warrants playing one over the other, but one has had a bigger opportunity thus far to improve his performance, over the other.

Now that the other one is getting opportunity, it seems so unacceptable to some, which is complete silliness IMO. Petan has hardly generated that type of reaction based off his very average play thru 100plus games.

This board at one time was adversive to Maurice playing Lowry as much as he did in his first season, that his size and toughness was driving Maurice’s decision. Same thing with Copp, being played because of his size, while more skilled players sat.

They were wrong, Maurice was very very right. Not saying you were one of those people, but this board has always had this belief that size and toughness equate to a lack of skill.

Lemieux has played well the past couple of games, and deserves as much a place in the lineup as Petan. Either or is fine imo, but untill one of them grabs the spot and runs with it, neither should be considered a better option over the other.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Actually, plenty of people have suggested that Petan looks much better than Lemieux. Thinking otherwise is just being naive.

At this point you’re just blindly defending Lemieux with nothing but your own eye test. If he’s so good why do stats suggest a very different story or when the majority’s eye test suggest he hasn’t shown anything hardly?

Read my reply to Ducky10,to understand my POV, and sorry, using stats on a propect that has amassed 25 NHL games is the exact reason many roll their eyes to the way some try to use advance stats.

I will take the eye test over the advance stats test on a 25 game sample pertaining to a rookie prospect, every day of the week.

 

[surixon]

Let me clarify, my dog in this fight is not Lemieux over Petan, its that putting either in the line up over the other, has zero reflection towards Maurice’s coaching abilities.

I also have not seen enough of a difference between either’s performance that warrants playing one over the other, but one has had a bigger opportunity thus far to improve his performance, over the other.

Now that the other one is getting opportunity, it seems so unacceptable to some, which is complete silliness IMO. Petan has hardly generated that type of reaction based off his very average play thru 100plus games.

This board at one time was adversive to Maurice playing Lowry as much as he did in his first season, that his size and toughness was driving Maurice’s decision. Same thing with Copp, being played because of his size, while more skilled players sat.

They were wrong, Maurice was very very right. Not saying you were one of those people, but this board has always had this belief, that size and toughness equate to a lack of skill.

Lemieux has played well the past couple of games, and deserves as much a place in the lineup as Petan. Either on is fine imo, but untill one of them grabs the spot and runs with it, neither should be considered a better option over the other.

I wouldn't say he was necessarily right. After a big year last year our third line is back to producing like a fourth line and has just broken even in terms of shot metrics. Hardly dominating or justifying the huge minutes they get. If all three players continue at this level which is closer to their career norms then I would be a bit concerned about a lack of depth scoring heading into the playoffs.

All are useful players but ideally they would be our fourth line imo.

 

[surixon]

Read my reply to Ducky10,to understand my POV, and sorry, using stats on a propect that has amassed 25 NHL games is the exact reason many roll their eyes to the way some try to use advance stats.

I will take the eye test over the advance stats test on a 25 game sample pertaining to a rookie prospect, every day of the week.

What does he bring and how does he help this team win?

The stats say he is in the bottom 1% of all NHL players in his ability to out chance his opponents. The stats also say that he is bottom 2 in the league with regards to how well much worse he performs relative to his teammates when he is on the ice.

Please enlighten me. This is what my eye test sees:

A player who is constantly behind the play.
A player who is often out of position all over the ice
A player who takes too long to make decisions when he has the puck
A player who lacks discipline
A player who doesn't read off his teammates very well
I see a player that if his last name wasn't Lemieux and if didn't hit wouldn't have gotten a sniff

 

[TheJadePipe]

Your eye test tells you, other eyes tell a different story. Hasn't earned more minutes? Why? So Roslo hasn't earned more than the 6 minutes he gets some nights? Perreault hasn't earned his minutes that he'll be losing once Copp returns. Chiarot has earned top 4 minutes a night? Morrow has earned the right to play at all? Lemieux earned his way back into the lineup?



Earned......that's a cliche.

Correct, Roso has not earned more minutes than Chef, Little or Lowry. Chiarot has earned his minutes compared to the LD on the team. Perrault hasn’t done anything this year. Copp has more chemistry on line 3 than Perrault... So Perrault gets bumped down because he is not beating out other wingers for minutes. I think Lemieux is no better than Petan but brings something different to the game... Grit.
Chemistry is important on a line... Just as chemistry with a team is important... PoMo has that with his team

 

[ffh]

nhl coaches want to win. they will always play the player they feel gives them the best shot at that. Maurice we can all agree on does not think petan helps them win. with his track record on prospects and how they have developed its hard to argue with him.

 

[KingBogo]

Trying to catch up on this thread and holy s*** did you guys go to town today. If you were at work I'm guessing not much got done today. If we gave out awards hands down this thread would win for the longest debate on the merits of two 4th line/PB/AHL tweeners. In all likelihood neither ends up playing much with a healthy lineup now that Appleton has passed them by. Personally I'd like to see Shaw get a few games to see if there is another upgrade in the weeds somewhere.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I see pros and cons to both Petan and lemieux. What I know is that so far the line looks more dangerous with Petan on it and Appleton is ahead of both of them.

Like bogo says above I’d love to see Shaw just to see.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Trying to catch up on this thread and holy s*** did you guys go to town today. If you were at work I'm guessing not much got done today. If we gave out awards hands down this thread would win for the longest debate on the merits of two 4th line/PB/AHL tweeners. In all likelihood neither ends up playing much with a healthy lineup now that Appleton has passed them by. Personally I'd like to see Shaw get a few games to see if there is another upgrade in the weeds somewhere.

I can only conclude this is a case of arguing about the little things because there's complete concordance on the big things

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

What does he bring and how does he help this team win?

The stats say he is in the bottom 1% of all NHL players in his ability to out chance his opponents. The stats also say that he is bottom 2 in the league with regards to how well much worse he performs relative to his teammates when he is on the ice.

Please enlighten me. This is what my eye test sees:

A player who is constantly behind the play.
A player who is often out of position all over the ice
A player who takes too long to make decisions when he has the puck
A player who lacks discipline
A player who doesn't read off his teammates very well
I see a player that if his last name wasn't Lemieux and if didn't hit wouldn't have gotten a sniff

I see a rookie that has hardly played enough games at the NHL level to warrant such negative analyses, like the one you just provided.

And I have also seen 100 plus games by a player that has yet to look like an NHL player consistently.

But please stop acting like playing Petan over Lemieux makes us a much better team, it hasnt, and it won’t

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

And since we like to micro analyze young Lemieux, making massive assertions off of his big 25 games played in his career, 2 solid shifts to start tonights game, full possession in the offensive zone, drew a penalty. Looks like a carry over from his last two games played.

Trending in the right direction.....

Plus one now

 

[Whileee]

Do you happen to have his charts from those years handy?

Not great, but better than Postma in his zone.

 

[JetsFan815]

Trying to catch up on this thread and holy s*** did you guys go to town today. If you were at work I'm guessing not much got done today. If we gave out awards hands down this thread would win for the longest debate on the merits of two 4th line/PB/AHL tweeners. In all likelihood neither ends up playing much with a healthy lineup now that Appleton has passed them by. Personally I'd like to see Shaw get a few games to see if there is another upgrade in the weeds somewhere.

Actually I think Appleton likely goes down to the Moose when Copp is off of IR. I don't see them sending Lemieux down straight from the NHL team to the moose without spending a significant time in the PB and I don't see them putting Petan on waivers (although there is a small chance they might do that as a 'favor' to him similar to Dano). Appleton who has played well, going down would be a shame.

Chevy needs to trade Lemieux for Matt Hendricks to give Maurice a security blanket that is not going to hurt the Jets in a key game in the playoffs.

 

[KingBogo]

Actually I think Appleton likely goes down to the Moose when Copp is off of IR. I don't see them sending Lemieux down straight from the NHL team to the moose without spending a significant time in the PB and I don't see them putting Petan on waivers (although there is a small chance they might do that as a 'favor' to him similar to Dano). Appleton who has played well, going down would be a shame.

Chevy needs to trade Lemieux for Matt Hendricks to give Maurice a security blanket that is not going to hurt the Jets in a key game in the playoffs.

They only have a 22 man roster now so they don't need to send anyone down when Copp comes back until Morrow also comes off the IR. They might run with that for awhile before making a decision. I don't think it will be Hendricks who Chevy targets but I think it is very possible the Jets pick up a depth forward at the TD to upgrade over the Lemieux/Petan option at #13.

 

[kanadalainen]

Trying to catch up on this thread and holy s*** did you guys go to town today. If you were at work I'm guessing not much got done today. If we gave out awards hands down this thread would win for the longest debate on the merits of two 4th line/PB/AHL tweeners. In all likelihood neither ends up playing much with a healthy lineup now that Appleton has passed them by. Personally I'd like to see Shaw get a few games to see if there is another upgrade in the weeds somewhere.

Best post in this entire thread.

 

[Peggy]

They only have a 22 man roster now so they don't need to send anyone down when Copp comes back until Morrow also comes off the IR. They might run with that for awhile before making a decision. I don't think it will be Hendricks who Chevy targets but I think it is very possible the Jets pick up a depth forward at the TD to upgrade over the Lemieux/Petan option at #13.

Yeah that's what the jets are really lacking. A #13 man

 

[ffh]

Actually I think Appleton likely goes down to the Moose when Copp is off of IR. I don't see them sending Lemieux down straight from the NHL team to the moose without spending a significant time in the PB and I don't see them putting Petan on waivers (although there is a small chance they might do that as a 'favor' to him similar to Dano). Appleton who has played well, going down would be a shame.

Chevy needs to trade Lemieux for Matt Hendricks to give Maurice a security blanket that is not going to hurt the Jets in a key game in the playoffs.

Lemieux and petan are tied at 1 for costing the team a game with bad penalties in their career. can we trade petan instead since he wont be qualified in the summer instead. not to mention Lemieux cost us the game because he missed his hit by a few inches a hit someone in the head and petan took a couple of lazy stick penalties that cost us a game .

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

What does he bring and how does he help this team win?

The stats say he is in the bottom 1% of all NHL players in his ability to out chance his opponents. The stats also say that he is bottom 2 in the league with regards to how well much worse he performs relative to his teammates when he is on the ice.

Please enlighten me. This is what my eye test sees:

A player who is constantly behind the play.
A player who is often out of position all over the ice
A player who takes too long to make decisions when he has the puck
A player who lacks discipline
A player who doesn't read off his teammates very well
I see a player that if his last name wasn't Lemieux and if didn't hit wouldn't have gotten a sniff

Last night my EYE test saw this:

- Lemieux worked really hard, carried the puck in to the ozone which drew a penalty in the first that led to our first power play goal.
-Lemiuex drove the puck from our blue line to low board side in the offensive zone, then went to the net and drew a defender, Roslo fed Myers for the goal. Positive impact on that goal.
- Lemieux drove the play from neutral zone to offensive end, boardside, where Roslo gets a high stick which produces another power play goal.
- 3 shifts last night that Lemieux made bad decisions, lost the puck in bad spots, or was on the wrong side of it.
-6 positive shifts that saw him drive plays, create some chances and possessed the puck in the Ozone.

For a rookie, just under 7 mins of play, solid game and well deserving of being in the lineup for the next game.

So, what did you see?

 

[KingBogo]

Yeah that's what the jets are really lacking. A #13 man

Actually they will. Most teams require 15-18 forwards on a deep playoff run. I'm guessing Chevy will want an upgrade on Appleton, Lemieux, Petan as the only spare parts.

 

[Peggy]

Actually they will. Most teams require 15-18 forwards on a deep playoff run. I'm guessing Chevy will want an upgrade on Appleton, Lemieux, Petan as the only spare parts.

And a guy we got rid of is our answer?

 

[Ducky10]

Jets sit 20th in the league in penalty minutes and 19th in penalties taken in the last month. Seems the discipline has improved.

 

[surixon]

Last night my EYE test saw this:

- Lemieux worked really hard, carried the puck in to the ozone which drew a penalty in the first that led to our first power play goal.
-Lemiuex drove the puck from our blue line to low board side in the offensive zone, then went to the net and drew a defender, Roslo fed Myers for the goal. Positive impact on that goal.
- Lemieux drove the play from neutral zone to offensive end, boardside, where Roslo gets a high stick which produces another power play goal.
- 3 shifts last night that Lemieux made bad decisions, lost the puck in bad spots, or was on the wrong side of it.
-6 positive shifts that saw him drive plays, create some chances and possessed the puck in the Ozone.

For a rookie, just under 7 mins of play, solid game and well deserving of being in the lineup for the next game.

So, what did you see?

Didn't actually see much of the game last night so can't really comment. I'll take your word for it.

 

[pucka lucka]

Didn't actually see much of the game last night so can't really comment. I'll take your word for it.

Lemieux was all over the place again. He's the forward version of the old Buff caricature. He had a little more success than normal due to the fact Chicago's D were a step behind the whole game.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Good decision to start Brossoit yesterday. Yeah there was a real softy, but he still put up a 0.914 and it's not like Helle has been immune to those this year. I hope Maurice continues to work him into the lineup regularly. We need a rested Helle for the playoffs.