Farmboy Patty
Senior Hockey Analyst
- Nov 2, 2017
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You need to update your estimates and see what players get paid nowadays. It’s not 2015 anymore
Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - Part 20'ish or so
- Thread starter YWGinYYZ
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Who knows what is going on? It was year when a 20 year old ONLY got 30 goals for the 3rd year in a row and 50 points.
All I was getting at is that there is a sentiment here that he won't improve, doesn't want to improve, is lazy, doesn't know how to train, etc.
Sure, trade him and watch him go on to be one of the most dominant players in the league in a couple of years. I think the odds are better that he goes on to do that, than bust.
There's that sentiment for a reason. Yes we were happy to get Laine in the lottery at the time but he hasn't improved as a player since then. I don't think we should trade him but there's obvious reason for concern about the little to no improvements and the absolute anchor he was this season at 5v5 play. He'll always be a weapon on the PP. But i don't think a 5v5 anchor/PP shooting specialist justifies a 9, 10M dollar deal
i wonder what you would say if i asked you if you think a 30 goal/50 pt year would be a success for Laine on Dec 1st/2018 (nvm all the tertiary statistics showing he's an abysmal 5v5 player)
edit - even in November where Laine potted 18, he was a negative player at 5v5 lol
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I understand the questions about what to pay him. I just don’t understand the unfounded jumping to conclusions and derision thrown his way.
kanadalainen
A pint of dark matter, please.
The reading of good books is extremely dangerous.
But seriously folks, this comment deserves applause.
BB88
Registered User
- Jan 19, 2015
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You need to update your estimates and see what players get paid nowadays. It’s not 2015 anymore
I know that very well.
If you show up to 10 games in a season you're not worth 8.5M, even in 2019.
Laine has a shot, nothing else is great or elite.
To be worth 10M per season that's betting on some major development, to which Laine has the potential but so far has failed to deliver.
His nr.1 pastime activity is sitting inside playing video games, why would he care which city he lives in
Ukkosenjumala
Registered User
I would argue his passing is great aswell, I know his assist totals don't reflect that due to variety of issues but really if you watch him, it's his passing that he bails himself out with when he's too slow to act or gets pressured by defenders.
His 5v5 stats did improve in his second season but overall to me he looked his best in his rookie year. Dynamic, engaged, decent speed, winning a good amount of puck battles and while his giveaway rates were still high, he compensated for it with alot of takeaways.
To me he needs to go back to the drawing board, stop trying to add mass and trying to be some pretender of a power forward. He doesn't have the mentality or natural athleticism for it. Keep working on getting faster and keep working on that shot, I felt thats what regressed as much as anything else this year was the shot.
Tommigun
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- Jan 5, 2018
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He can’t do that because Maurice and the entire team wants him to be a power forward and not a sniper.
Yep, so stupid. Really not happy with the way they've handled him thus far. Why not just let him be a sniper who's good at getting open and sniping? All the constant talk about power forward stuff, two-way play etc. is just missing the boat completely. Square peg in a round hole and all.
Tommigun
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I wonder how many times they mentioned power forward last year. Like why can’t he be a sniper what comes naturally for him.
behemolari
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With sane 5-on-5 deployment he has been a force, not anchor.
But as we have seen it already, Maurice and sane deployment cannot fit the same sentence.
Continue with ELL & other idiotic setups and he will continue to be not a star level player. Though Ehlers will will do the same as well. What a waste.
A star player doesn't look that bad regardless of linemates. Kovalchuk played with Thorburn in Atlanta - do you think he looked as bad as Laine does with Little?
Farmboy Patty
Senior Hockey Analyst
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Are we talking about Laine or Kovy? With the right deployment, both Laine and Ehlers would be STAR players. Just imagine the Jets playing like the Hurricanes are playing, with tons of chances off the rush. My sweet ****, that’d be beautiful!
don't think they improved
from hockeyref
16-17: 40 5v5 pts in 73 gp (2.3 5v5 pts/60)
17-18: 35 pts in 82 gp (2.0 5v5 pts/60)
more pts in less games played and better TOI efficiency
yeah i was watching his rookie season highlights the other day. he actually could participate in odd-man rush opportunities. can't remember the last time he scored on an odd man rush. he looked much quicker and faster comparatively too. I remember prior to getting Stastny in year 2 he was going through lulls as well in his all-around play but yea he was a much more dynamic player in his rookie season
in the past perhaps, but he was an anchor for each line that got some significant TOI this year
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Ummm... you can be a power forward and a sniper. To me, a power forward just connotes a player that relies a lot on their size and strength to control the puck, get good positioning against opponents, and play through checks. It's absolutely necessary for an elite player to be able to do that if they don't have very good quickness and speed. That doesn't mean that Laine needs to be bulky and slow, but he does need to have the strength and stamina to play effectively when he's encountering physical defensive play. Some of this is attitude - being willing to fight through checks and win pucks along the boards and then maintain puck possession. He did it much more in the playoffs than during the season, suggesting that maybe he ramped up his intensity in the post-season.
It was clearly stated that last summer the Jets asked Laine to lose some wait and improve his quickness, instead of bulking up more. I think he had become overly bulky, and to play his game effectively he needed more speed and quickness to complement his size, without giving up much strength. However, although Laine seemed quicker at the start of the season, as the season wore on he seemed to lose a step or two. I don't know what happened with his weight, but my sense from just looking at him at the beginning and end of the year is that he seemed heavier at the end of the season.
In any case, I think he does need to continue to work on his speed and quickness (and skills), while having a consistent attitude of playing through checks and winning puck possession. My bet is that he has a bounce-back season next season, but it will only come if he takes the right approach to his off-season training.
He is as fast as anyone not named Ehlers on the rush imo. I had a video earlier in this thread from when he was playing with 55/26, He was faster than Wheeler (with his million steps per minute) and Scheif, and he started backwards from a standstill. He was coasting and looking for a play as they passed the Bruins blue line.
He is much faster than anyone gives him credit for. I'll look for the video and post it again.
You look at the two goals he set up in that game and tell me that he is slow and only has a shot? His speed is perfectly fine on the rush and his passing/IQ is as good as anyone's. Then the toe drag around Bergeron (2:18 same video)??? He could already be a monster on the rush if we would just let Laine be Laine.
I really don't know what it is that prevents him from playing that way all the time. But I do know that he's not usually that far up in the O zone, so maybe told to concentrate on D?
Please reunite LES ( I like Laine on LW better), and let anyone in the league try to stop them.
I really don't know what it is that prevents him from playing that way all the time. But I do know that he's not usually that far up in the O zone, so maybe told to concentrate on D?
Please reunite LES ( I like Laine on LW better), and let anyone in the league try to stop them.
He can play reach a good top speed, but he does it very inconsistently. More importantly, he lacks quickness to create separation in the offensive zone, so he will need to be able to fend off defenders. Players like Connor and Ehlers are able to escape from physical engagement with their quickness and agility. Laine is going to need to learn how to protect the puck and fend off defenders to become more effective. Right now, it's too easy to catch him and take the puck away.
he's fast when he gets going for sure. but it's his acceleration and quickness. his rookie season like i said he'd be able to score in odd man rushes, how many did he have this year? KC, Ehlers, Tanev just to mention are much quicker and agile
I would love to see that as well Whileee, but 6'5" Laine is never going to have the quickness and agility of Ehlers or Connor. He is trying to make up for it by his fancy puck control and passing, but isn't quite there all the time yet.
I think he is doing a FAR better job of protecting the puck in the latter half of the year though, trying to use his body much like Wheeler does, so that's a step in the right direction. Wheeler at 6'5" has the same issue with agility, and opponents are pressuring him now too until he gives up the puck. Neither of them are really cut out for that type of play imo. Wheeler has had more than a decade to get better at using his body, but still has issues simply because of his frame type. They are both much more effective off the rush I think.
We have different players with different attributes. They all have incredible individual attributes.... every single current top six forward has a super power
Ehlers with his zone entries, Laine with his passing and shot, KC with the inclose plays and evading ability, 55/26 with their obvious abilities. I still think a top 2C brings out more than the sum of the parts on this top 6.We have to figure out how to mix those attributes and use plays that maximize the talents.
Sorry, got off on a bit of a rant
My point is that star caliber players are expected to make their line productive, not the other way around. If Laine is really a star, a mediocre 2nd line center shouldn't be able to hold him back. Laine has the potential to be a star but he's not there yet. You can maybe blame coaching (beyond linemates, i.e. what they tell him to focus on) for his development or lack thereof, but blaming Little who's a decent player is getting ridiculous.
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