Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - Part 20'ish or so

[surixon]

I can't help but wonder if some of Laine's issues were due to Maurice disassembling his game and then building it in a different way. Not absolving Patrick as he is often wasn't moving his feet but his style of play is a lot more different then it was his first two years.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

The first third of the season is garbage time anyway imo. Let them sit.

Yeah, we're only paying $350 to attend games during garbage time. Why would I care if I see our star players?

 

[Saintb]

Well you’ll get to see some exciting young prospects

 

[Calendal]

Could that be taken to mean that the Jets were out early so it's going to be a long time before he gets to play hockey again?

Nope, not really.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Well you’ll get to see some exciting young prospects

I get to see them in my True North mandated pre-season game.

 

[ryerockarola]

Yeah, we're only paying $350 to attend games during garbage time. Why would I care if I see our star players?

November-Laine or later-season Laine ha, never know

 

[Howard Chuck]

I can't help but wonder if some of Laine's issues were due to Maurice disassembling his game and then building it in a different way. Not absolving Patrick as he is often wasn't moving his feet but his style of play is a lot more different then it was his first two years.

And far different than pre-NHL.

 

[LowLefty]

I can't help but wonder if some of Laine's issues were due to Maurice disassembling his game and then building it in a different way. Not absolving Patrick as he is often wasn't moving his feet but his style of play is a lot more different then it was his first two years.

Growing pains maybe -
From where I'm sitting, his game improved -

 

[Vekke]

Could that be taken to mean that the Jets were out early so it's going to be a long time before he gets to play hockey again?

Unfortunately no. He says that he doesn’t know how long holiday he will have and it is possible that it might be longer.

 

[cbcwpg]

Patrik Laine vill fortsätta karriären i Winnipeg – minns den magiska femmålskvällen med värme

It's fun to be at home and enjoy the spring and heat,
meet friends and just be. Now it is not in a hurry for
ice training, for the gym or for any running round.
I enjoy not rushing to something.

I have agents and advisors who work with it and
receive constant updates, they ask about my opinion
and of course if I accept the agreement. The summer
vacation can also be long, we'll see when the call to
NHL finally comes.

 

[WPGChief]

Patrik Laine has quite literally been the second worst forward in terms of xG impact (RAPM) over the past three seasons.

It’s really hard to determine whether he’ll break out of this and become a better all-around player or if he’ll merely survive on his shooting talent alone. Then again, where have I heard this before?

 

[rkp]

He was the worst defensive forward on the Jets this year. he tanked each line he was on. ok he's doing what he's told - just like every other player - he still is abysmal at it. Ehlers improved a lot defensively in his earlier years comparatively so it's not impossible for Laine maybe he's just a slow learner? 9g 17a in 58gp after November as well is simply not good enough given the PP1 time and top6 time he receives. He had the most shots, shot attempts and highest Ozone starts of his 3 seasons this year too.

Don't forget that he has had a back injury which has affected his shot for the season! I thought schief and wheelers were the worst on the team!?

He will probably sign a bridge deal not unlike trouba , morrisey and end up like trouba, eventually somewhere else scoring 60 to 70 goals a year. Seems like no one wants to play for Maurice. I can imagine chevy must be gnashing his teeth to the gums when he looks at all the talent he has assembled(even the league seems to think likewise) and only Maurice can only royally screw it up to this extent.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Abstract thought.
Is it possible Laine hasn’t connected fully with the vets in particular because he wasn’t legal age in every city we played in until April?
You couldn’t go everywhere with the gang and I’m presuming most places would be adult themed.
Just wondering if that’s a small thing.

 

[traffic cone]

Patrik Laine has quite literally been the second worst forward in terms of xG impact (RAPM) over the past three seasons.

It’s really hard to determine whether he’ll break out of this and become a better all-around player or if he’ll merely survive on his shooting talent alone. Then again, where have I heard this before?

Nice stats!

Goals are too.

 

[surixon]

Patrik Laine has quite literally been the second worst forward in terms of xG impact (RAPM) over the past three seasons.

It’s really hard to determine whether he’ll break out of this and become a better all-around player or if he’ll merely survive on his shooting talent alone. Then again, where have I heard this before?

He seems to bust all these models though. He was pretty bad this past year but I think he had a very strong GAR impact last year.

 

[Howard Chuck]

He seems to bust all these models though. He was pretty bad this past year but I think he had a very strong GAR impact last year.

There a stats that we can roll out to show how good he is and those that show how bad he is. I would suggest that we try to make full use of him and have 50-60 goal scorer over the next 10 years.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Don't forget that he has had a back injury which has affected his shot for the season! I thought schief and wheelers were the worst on the team!?

He will probably sign a bridge deal not unlike trouba , morrisey and end up like trouba, eventually somewhere else scoring 60 to 70 goals a year. Seems like no one wants to play for Maurice. I can imagine chevy must be gnashing his teeth to the gums when he looks at all the talent he has assembled(even the league seems to think likewise) and only Maurice can only royally screw it up to this extent.

You think?? I think Chevy is just fine with Maurice it's just us that's upset and Trouba would have wanted out no matter what Maurice did.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Pretty alarming for sure if it's quoted correctly, which I would assume. He's basically indicating quite directly that he's ready to sit out for the contract negotiations.

Well, unfortunately i think it's a very possible, and logical outcome. He's probably been informed that the two sides are far apart in negotiations.

Team doesn't feel comfortable signing him to a big deal for reasons said many times here.

Agent has more than enough numbers to throw at them from the last 3 years as to why he should be making X amount of money. Goalscorers get paid.

So it becomes a stalemate.

 

[KingBogo]

Well, unfortunately i think it's a very possible, and logical outcome. He's probably been informed that the two sides are far apart in negotiations.

Team doesn't feel comfortable signing him to a big deal for reasons said many times here.

Agent has more than enough numbers to throw at them from the last 3 years as to why he should be making X amount of money. Goalscorers get paid.

So it becomes a stalemate.

I'd guess it is a bit early yet to consider it a stalemate. We are not even half way through the 2nd round of the playoffs and it is unlikely any series negotiations have even started.

 

[LowLefty]

Well, unfortunately i think it's a very possible, and logical outcome. He's probably been informed that the two sides are far apart in negotiations.

Team doesn't feel comfortable signing him to a big deal for reasons said many times here.

Agent has more than enough numbers to throw at them from the last 3 years as to why he should be making X amount of money. Goalscorers get paid.

So it becomes a stalemate.

I'd be surprised if the 2 sides are already talking -
What could be a concern is that Laine is "assuming" if might be a long summer before the talks have begun.
Maybe he thinks he's about to be low balled based on his so so year.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Jets Org will be careful with this one - they are not going to throw money at him.
And that's a good thing IMO.

 

[WPGChief]

Nice stats!

Goals are too.

Yes, goals are very important and he can score them. Until he doesn't for stretches of time, and everyone panics and we get to thread number 20.

Let's not kid ourselves, he certainly has a lot of area for improvement - I think he can meet those expectations, but these are pretty frightening to see just how bad they truly are. A more complete look at Evolving-Hockey's RAPMs:

He seems to bust all these models though. He was pretty bad this past year but I think he had a very strong GAR impact last year.

Generally speaking, of course actually scoring goals is going to boost your impact to GAR and WAR, even though yes he wasn't nearly as impactful this year for all the reasons we saw. Honestly, if he could round out the rest of his game he'd be more generational than just his shot - like, just imagine if he could constantly tip the ice towards the opponent's net consistently and that he was taking even more shots and additionally, he was taking them from even closer or after rebounds or constant rushes up the ice, etc.

I wouldn't call it "busting the model", though.

 

[JetsFan815]

Yes, goals are very important and he can score them. Until he doesn't for stretches of time, and everyone panics and we get to thread number 20.

Let's not kid ourselves, he certainly has a lot of area for improvement - I think he can meet those expectations, but these are pretty frightening to see just how bad they truly are. A more complete look at Evolving-Hockey's RAPMs:

Generally speaking, of course actually scoring goals is going to boost your impact to GAR and WAR, even though yes he wasn't nearly as impactful this year for all the reasons we saw. Honestly, if he could round out the rest of his game he'd be more generational than just his shot - like, just imagine if he could constantly tip the ice towards the opponent's net consistently and that he was taking even more shots and additionally, he was taking them from even closer or after rebounds or constant rushes up the ice, etc.

I wouldn't call it "busting the model", though.

If he could merely be "average" in the rest of his game he would be in the talk for the best in the league along with guys like MacKinnon. Doesn't even have to be above-average, just be average NHL level at everything else and the shooting will carry him to greatness. A friend of mine who is a Ducks fan a couple of weeks ago described Laine to me as "2018 Ryan Kesler with Ovechkin's shot" it's amazing how eerily accurate that comparison is:

Maurice says that his 5 on 5 game has significantly improved since the rookie season, and maybe it's he back injury but the stats disagree and my eye test is mixed.

 

[Adam da bomb]

If he could merely be "average" in the rest of his game he would be in the talk for the best in the league along with guys like MacKinnon. Doesn't even have to be above-average, just be average NHL level at everything else and the shooting will carry him to greatness. A friend of mine who is a Ducks fan a couple of weeks ago described Laine to me as "2018 Ryan Kesler with Ovechkin's shot" it's amazing how eerily accurate that comparison is:

Maurice says that his 5 on 5 game has significantly improved since the rookie season, and maybe it's he back injury but the stats disagree and my eye test is mixed.

If it's a back injury will Laine ever be 100%? Are we goin to be dealing with this his whole career here? That's frustrating!

 

[DRW204]

If he could merely be "average" in the rest of his game he would be in the talk for the best in the league along with guys like MacKinnon. Doesn't even have to be above-average, just be average NHL level at everything else and the shooting will carry him to greatness. A friend of mine who is a Ducks fan a couple of weeks ago described Laine to me as "2018 Ryan Kesler with Ovechkin's shot" it's amazing how eerily accurate that comparison is:

Maurice says that his 5 on 5 game has significantly improved since the rookie season, and maybe it's he back injury but the stats disagree and my eye test is mixed.

oh my f***

 

[Halberdier]

He seems to bust all these models though. He was pretty bad this past year but I think he had a very strong GAR impact last year.

He had awesome GAR and WAR for his first 2 seasons. This season not so much I guess.

There are many things contributing to the fact, but his utilization was totally brain dead by Maurice, so I suggest that was the biggest factor leading to other problems including low confidence.

It's also notable, that he simply breaks xGoals model, as xGoals doesn't (usually) take into account shot quality (as in "quality of shot" vs. "quality of shooting opportunity"). Laine can shoot from away from locations that are considered impossible to score (or gives you about 0 xGoals in xGoals model), and still score.