Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - Part 20'ish or so

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Uncle Scrooge

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I don't get the 'doesn't show signs of improvement' thing I keep hearing?

He's doing exactly what he's been asked to do.... work on his defensive game. He's done that at the expense of being a sniper or an aggressive forward like we are used to seeing from him. He got back to that in the playoffs, but if Maurice wants him to play better defence and with less TOI and on a line with no chemistry, then that's not on Laine. He's just doing what he's told. I actually think he was a pretty good student this year. He is more physical, winning a lot of board battles, while still scoring at a pretty good clip.

Again, we will never know but at least all parties involved in the contract talks will know.

He's not moving any better than he was since he entered the league. Heck, you put Laine from WJC and Laine in 18/19 side by side and one could argue the WJC version looks quicker. I don't know how that's possible.

Just because he's doing the things his coach asks him to do doesn't dismiss that fact. Basically there's been no "damn, he looks good out there" feel after any summer.

He's tried to adapt to fix some holes in his game but he hasn't acquired any new tools to work with so to speak, besides maybe being a tad stronger.

He played with every top 6 guy on the team this past season. TOI and chemistry are excuses at this point. You earn your ice time by forcing the coaches hand. Every winger got their chance to play on the top line and Connor/Ehlers did better there. That's not Maurice's fault.

And what you say about doing it at the expense of offense is exactly the issue. As Laine spends energy to play committed defense he's giving up on offense. With better skating and endurance, suddenly that becomes less of a problem. There's way too many times potential plays die due to Laine standing still waiting to get back on the bench, instead of creating something.

It's also amazing what it does when you manage to play at a higher pace. Suddenly, you might gain some chemistry with the guys on the team.

I appreciate his willingness to do what his coach is telling him to do but i know that won't make him the offensive player he could be. The only thing that will help is him becoming a better athlete.
 

DRW204

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Dec 26, 2010
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Yeah i didn't mean lowballing him to be an *******. What i meant was basically have an emphasis on what have you done for me lately, instead of potential or past 40 goal season. It's sort of lowballing since a lot of RFA's have got big deals recently, but i wouldn't feel comfortable taking the risk at this time. I'd rather pay more knowing Laine is close to reaching his potential than give security to a guy who isn't showing signs of improvement when he should be.

In my opinion Laine's camp should see this as reasonable.

Besides, if Laine got a big payday after the season he had, what kind of message does that send to guys like Scheifele and Ehlers who were on board with the deals they got?
Scheifele and Ehlers got deals that were pretty fair at the time they were signed imo.

Scheifele's comparables at the time were Mackinnon, Barkov and later Monahan were all young Cs who had career high point totals in the 60s. they all net betwen 5.9-6.375M AAV (with terms between 6-8 years)

Ehlers similar to Drouin and Forsberg at 5.5M-6M. Ehlers and Forsberg (6m) had a career highs of 64, and Drouin had 53 in 73 gp (5.5M)

But yea, I wouldn't give Laine above 9M after this year, i have trouble seeing him around 8M after seeing him THIS season.
 
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DRW204

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Dec 26, 2010
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I don't get the 'doesn't show signs of improvement' thing I keep hearing?

He's doing exactly what he's been asked to do.... work on his defensive game. He's done that at the expense of being a sniper or an aggressive forward like we are used to seeing from him. He got back to that in the playoffs, but if Maurice wants him to play better defence and with less TOI and on a line with no chemistry, then that's not on Laine. He's just doing what he's told. I actually think he was a pretty good student this year. He is more physical, winning a lot of board battles, while still scoring at a pretty good clip.

Again, we will never know but at least all parties involved in the contract talks will know.
He was the worst defensive forward on the Jets this year. he tanked each line he was on. ok he's doing what he's told - just like every other player - he still is abysmal at it. Ehlers improved a lot defensively in his earlier years comparatively so it's not impossible for Laine maybe he's just a slow learner? 9g 17a in 58gp after November as well is simply not good enough given the PP1 time and top6 time he receives. He had the most shots, shot attempts and highest Ozone starts of his 3 seasons this year too.
 

Uncle Scrooge

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Scheifele and Ehlers got deals that were pretty fair at the time they were signed imo.

Scheifele's comparables at the time were Mackinnon, Barkov and later Monahan were all young Cs who had career high point totals in the 60s. they all net betwen 5.9-6.375M AAV (with terms between 6-8 years)

Ehlers similar to Drouin and Forsberg at 5.5M-6M. Ehlers and Forsberg (6m) had a career highs of 64, and Drouin had 53 in 73 gp (5.5M)

But yea, I wouldn't give Laine above 9M after this year, i have trouble seeing him around 8M after seeing him THIS season.

I agree, they were fair at the time.

Now what's fair for a 30 goal, 50 point winger in the current market?
 

DRW204

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I agree, they were fair at the time.

Now what's fair for a 30 goal, 50 point winger in the current market?
Evander Kane and JVR are roughly 30 goal 50 point guys....they're older and probably at their max potential. They both net 7m/year deals.
 

Ukkosenjumala

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Nov 24, 2017
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Laine had a down year no doubt but for all the talk of him being a horrible defensive forward and a line tanker, would be nice if some numbers were provided every once in a while to back it up. Because while I've looked at the numbers myself plenty of times this year and they showed he's no stalwart, I haven't seen anything to suggest he was really worse compared to whoever he played with at the time mostly. Jets wielded a lot of struggling 5v5 lines this year, especially defensively. What strikes me as disingenious in the Laine criticism is that he had periods of better play this season, like the November, like when he was first put on with Scheif and Wheeler for about a dozen games, the playoffs yet all of that is brushed aside, like it doesn't matter. Now it comes out he's basicly been struggling with injuries too?

Having a guy on his ELC score "only" 30 goals and 54 points and that being a DOWN year? I'd say the nickel and dime talk over a player with that kind of potential is wierd. As long as the Jets don't go crazy which they won't, they'll be fine with whatever contract they give him.
 

Garbox

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Feb 27, 2016
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I think Jets are kinda forced to make a bridge deal. Not because of a bit slower year, but because he's having these recurring back problems. Two year bridge and see if it can be solved or not. Because if not, his peak will not be long, no matter what the cause is.
I may have told this before but we had one (key) player here in Pori few years ago. He had problems with his back and doctors said that he needs a surgery or he might lose his ability to walk next time he's hit. The surgery wouldn't have granted his ablity to continue playing so he searched for anoter way. He was told that strengthening his core (and inner core especially) with pilates would likely help. He didn't put too much hope on it but decided to try. And it helped, he played some 5 years or so.
Now he wasn't known to be a hard working guy (in fact he did as little as he could in practices) and Laine and other NHL'ers sure do work hard. But even if you're doing deadlifts with 200kg, your inner core muscles might not be strong enough, they need different kind of exercises. But I tend to think that all professional trainers that work with guys on this level know these things too, and better than me. So I'm sure they'll figure out the cause and give Laine instructions to fix it.
 

DRW204

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Dec 26, 2010
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Laine had a down year no doubt but for all the talk of him being a horrible defensive forward and a line tanker, would be nice if some numbers were provided every once in a while to back it up. Because while I've looked at the numbers myself plenty of times this year and they showed he's no stalwart, I haven't seen anything to suggest he was really worse compared to whoever he played with at the time mostly. Jets wielded a lot of struggling 5v5 lines this year, especially defensively. What strikes me as disingenious in the Laine criticism is that he had periods of better play this season, like the November, like when he was first put on with Scheif and Wheeler for about a dozen games, the playoffs yet all of that is brushed aside, like it doesn't matter. Now it comes out he's basicly been struggling with injuries too?

Having a guy on his ELC score "only" 30 goals and 54 points and that being a DOWN year? I'd say the nickel and dime talk over a player with that kind of potential is wierd. As long as the Jets don't go crazy which they won't, they'll be fine with whatever contract they give him.
this by xGF%, GF% looks similar, i think the 4 of the bottom 5 are Laine lines when sorting by GF%. team worst in 5v5 +/-, team worst in CF%


lainepa98
 

BB88

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Laine should really focus on his core this summer, dammit if I knew him I'd give him few numbers for Tampere gurus.
 

Jetfaninflorida

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Dec 13, 2013
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I am greatly concerned about the de-development of Patrick Laine under Maurice and the Jets. I am concerned that his agent may look at his progressive steps backwards and start suggesting to his client that he needs to be in a different development environment. Not saying he would be right or wrong, just saying he might be thinking that.
 

SCP Guy

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This back injury stuff is BS....sure he may have a soar back (like 90% of adults in the world) but when asked what his plans were for the off season he said chill with friends and play golf....yeah that sounds like a serious degenerative back issue to me :sarcasm:
 

LowLefty

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I am greatly concerned about the de-development of Patrick Laine under Maurice and the Jets. I am concerned that his agent may look at his progressive steps backwards and start suggesting to his client that he needs to be in a different development environment. Not saying he would be right or wrong, just saying he might be thinking that.

I'm also greatly concerned about his development - he seems quite slow at it but did make progress late in the season (IMO)
Also concerned about the back injury - maybe that had something to do with this "de-development" under Mo?
 
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DRW204

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Dec 26, 2010
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This back injury stuff is BS....sure he may have a soar back (like 90% of adults in the world) but when asked what his plans were for the off season he said chill with friends and play golf....yeah that sounds like a serious degenerative back issue to me :sarcasm:
in the words of Mr. Laine himself "they need something to blame after last year"
 

ovythegiraffe

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Nov 26, 2018
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I think the golf stuff, like most things he says, is taken a bit too serious here. Doesn't mean he's torturing his back playing two rounds per day all summer.
 
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Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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I am greatly concerned about the de-development of Patrick Laine under Maurice and the Jets. I am concerned that his agent may look at his progressive steps backwards and start suggesting to his client that he needs to be in a different development environment. Not saying he would be right or wrong, just saying he might be thinking that.
I think the main constraints in Laine's development relate to lack of progress in his skating / quickness or his power game (puck possession). Most improvements in those areas come from the individual player and their approach to training. Laine needs to get quicker, faster and stronger and continue to work on his puck possession skills. That's not the role for an NHL head coach.
 
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Tommigun

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Jan 5, 2018
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Well, if he does have back issues then that would certainly impact his athleticism/ability to develop athletically. Hopefully though that will be resolved and he can then beast out.

That would be optimal. But it’s still quite worrisome, we can just hope for the best.
 

PhilJets

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I am greatly concerned about the de-development of Patrick Laine under Maurice and the Jets. I am concerned that his agent may look at his progressive steps backwards and start suggesting to his client that he needs to be in a different development environment. Not saying he would be right or wrong, just saying he might be thinking that.
I believe most agents would think that way.

Yes

I think his father has a lot of say into his development also.

I dont want to dig it up.
But Finnish tabloid during the Finland trip suggesting, Laine camp wasnt happy on his usage.

Then November to remembwr happened 18 goals in 12 games.
Thats crazy stats the record for 19 goals in a month was done in 16 games?

Then December happens. His ice time still 2nd line.
Now you see the bad Laine in Jan to mid Feb.
Father came to visit and he found some life.
Then he got into 1st line, he found more life.
Then he went down then the line again.
1 goal in 18 games.


Then St loius series. You see the good Laine best player on the team.
 

Howard Chuck

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I think the main constraints in Laine's development relate to lack of progress in his skating / quickness or his power game (puck possession). Most improvements in those areas come from the individual player and their approach to training. Laine needs to get quicker, faster and stronger and continue to work on his puck possession skills. That's not the role for an NHL head coach.

I think close to the end of the season and certainly in the playoffs, Laine was more of a power forward than anyone, and probably won more board battles than anyone as well. I was very impressed his development at the end of the season.

I hope they just tell him to go for it next year.
 

Howard Chuck

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Like all big guys, Laine needs a few strides to get going fast. But once he is going, he's fast enough.
There was a play a while back when Laine was playing with 55/26 in March. The play started in our zone, Laine was facing the opposite way and Wheeler and Schief took off like bats out of hell, Wheeler had his usual head down, million strides per second. By the time they got to the opposing blue line Laine was even with them to take a pass. I posted the video but I don't even remember what game it was. There are numerous examples of either goals or excellent scoring chances off the rush for that line at that time.

His speed is very underrated
 
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