Player Discussion: Patrik Laine (mod warning in post #150)

[kunekune]

The Jets philosophy is to pay and pay well for demonstrated performance, not for potential performance. Trouba doesn't understand that, but Scheifele did.

I don't think there was anyone in Jets office who could even dream of Scheifele becoming as good as he is when the contract was signed.

 

[BB88]

Laine does not deserve ten based on his merits to this day.

Show me a player who knows what two-way ability means, and then we'll talk.

He doesn't deserve 10M but those Drai& Eichel contracts really messed up the market, from Barkov/Scheifele/Mack getting 6M longterm deals to 8.5M-> in 1 summer.

If they sign Laine next year and he has a healthy year I'm afraid of the number we are looking at.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

He doesn't deserve 10M but those Drai& Eichel contracts really messed up the market, from Barkov/Scheifele/Mack getting 6M longterm deals to 8.5M-> in 1 summer.

If they sign Laine next year and he has a healthy year I'm afraid of the number we are looking at.

You don't sign wingers based on what centers get.

 

[Keduzin]

You don't sign wingers based on what centers get.

No , but if you have an upcoming multi rocket richard winner, one of the most liked players to create headlines of by the NHL and the most talked and interesting Jet in the league at hand it makes it a bit different

 

[Keduzin]

You don't sign wingers based on what centers get.

No , but if you have an upcoming multi rocket richard winner, one of the most liked players to create headlines of by the NHL and the most talked and interesting Jet in the league at hand it makes it a bit different

 

[Keduzin]

You don't sign wingers based on what centers get.

No , but if you have an upcoming multi rocket richard winner, one of the most liked players to create headlines of by the NHL and the most talked and interesting Jet in the league at hand it makes it a bit different

 

[Kaako Kappo]

No , but if you have an upcoming multi rocket richard winner, one of the most liked players to create headlines of by the NHL and the most talked and interesting Jet in the league at hand it makes it a bit different

No it doesn't, because none of that has happened.

 

[BB88]

You don't sign wingers based on what centers get.

It's not that simply and you know it.

Drai was a W/C when he signed his contract, Laine's agent won't have a tough time showing the stats on each of the 3's +1 and +2 seasons, and then add the cap raise from Drais' contract.

Jets say you're a winger, Laine shows the stats. Laine could ask for a massive number if he wants already, in a year it could be very scary number.
I just hope he wants to build a longterm contender and takes something in the 8.xM level.

 

[Keduzin]

No it doesn't, because none of that has happened.

Hmm.. well there is absolutely no other player that has shown as much potential to be that than Laine. 80 goals while 20y, injury, limited pp time etc...

Oh, how did my post come up 3 times ? Mods please remove the extras

 

[Maukkis]

I don't know why this keeps being repeated. You don't think that Laine played a pretty darn good two way game last year? Most times he gave up obvious offense opportunities to lay back and protect our end. Even while competing for the Rocket, he still managed to back check as well as most Jets did.

Back-checking is not an achievement. It is the expectation.

What I have a problem with is his tendency to turn the puck over in the easiest of situations and 'cluelessness' in situations where he is correctly positioned (I'd say he knows that quite well) but fails to do anything meaningful.

 

[Maukkis]

He doesn't deserve 10M but those Drai& Eichel contracts really messed up the market, from Barkov/Scheifele/Mack getting 6M longterm deals to 8.5M-> in 1 summer.

If they sign Laine next year and he has a healthy year I'm afraid of the number we are looking at.

I would try to lock him up this year. He hasn't shown nearly enough as of yet to be worthy of 10, but progression in 18-19 could very well boost his demands.

If Matthews signs first, that's your ceiling which you don't want to come close to.

 

[Howard Chuck]

It's not that simply and you know it.

Drai was a W/C when he signed his contract, Laine's agent won't have a tough time showing the stats on each of the 3's +1 and +2 seasons, and then add the cap raise from Drais' contract.

Jets say you're a winger, Laine shows the stats. Laine could ask for a massive number if he wants already, in a year it could be very scary number.
I just hope he wants to build a longterm contender and takes something in the 8.xM level.

Completely agree. The kid could ask for the moon and he wouldn't be outside of reason. He's broken all sorts of records already for his age and everyone loves him. Other teams don't stop tracking him down for interviews etc. He isn't even close to his peak yet, and he's fast becoming one of the 'faces' of the NHL.

I hope he is as down to earth as he seems and that his love of Winnipeg is as strong as he states publicly. We've had some very good discounts so far, and if we could sign Laine long term for a reasonable amount as well, we can all breathe a sigh of relief.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Back-checking is not an achievement. It is the expectation.

What I have a problem with is his tendency to turn the puck over in the easiest of situations and 'cluelessness' in situations where he is correctly positioned (I'd say he knows that quite well) but fails to do anything meaningful.

I'm sure we could go back and forth all day, but I don't think that Laine is any worse than many other Jets at turning over the puck, in situations where it shouldn't be an issue. People just seem to have this expectation that since he is so talented in some areas, that he should be the best in every area.

I certainly want him to improve, because he has the potential to be great in all aspects of the game, but I would say that he is as good at the 200 foot game as most Jets are. I've yelled at my tv many times when one of our veterans or or one of our leaders turns the puck over in what should have been a simple play.

I'm not trying to say that Laine can't or shouldn't improve, just that I don't think his defensive play or all around play is as bad as you say. Definitely not bad enough to hold back a sky high contract demand, but again, I hope he sees the value of helping keep the team together, through reasonable contracts.

 

[Maukkis]

I'm sure we could go back and forth all day, but I don't think that Laine is any worse than many other Jets at turning over the puck, in situations where it shouldn't be an issue. People just seem to have this expectation that since he is so talented in some areas, that he should be the best in every area.

I certainly want him to improve, because he has the potential to be great in all aspects of the game, but I would say that he is as good at the 200 foot game as most Jets are. I've yelled at my tv many times when one of our veterans or or one of our leaders turns the puck over in what should have been a simple play.

I'm not trying to say that Laine can't or shouldn't improve, just that I don't think his defensive play or all around play is as bad as you say. Definitely not bad enough to hold back a sky high contract demand, but again, I hope he sees the value of helping keep the team together, through reasonable contracts.

I think it is. I also hope he can learn from his mistakes. I've yet to see anything so badly wrong in his game that I would have given up hope in his ability to develop.

And as for those bloated expectations, that is roughly what happens when the narrative of 'Laine can do no wrong, it is always someone else's fault, stats don't matter' is pushed in every discussion.

We'll wait and see what happens on the contract front. Both options (this year or the next) have their own advantages. As long as any Laine deal is for 7-8 years, they all should be cool.

 

[BB88]

Completely agree. The kid could ask for the moon and he wouldn't be outside of reason. He's broken all sorts of records already for his age and everyone loves him. Other teams don't stop tracking him down for interviews etc. He isn't even close to his peak yet, and he's fast becoming one of the 'faces' of the NHL.

I hope he is as down to earth as he seems and that his love of Winnipeg is as strong as he states publicly. We've had some very good discounts so far, and if we could sign Laine long term for a reasonable amount as well, we can all breathe a sigh of relief.

He's said time and again the team comes 1st and the money isn't the thing for me, soon we'll find out.

I'm hoping he continues the Finnish trend and follows his friend Barkov in taking team friendly contract.

I would try to lock him up this year. He hasn't shown nearly enough as of yet to be worthy of 10, but progression in 18-19 could very well boost his demands.

If Matthews signs first, that's your ceiling which you don't want to come close to.

He isn't worth the 10M after ELC but sadly we are in an NHL where he could demand that, and if he competes for Rocket on 2/3 of his ELC years who knows where the number gets, no one in recent years has done that and signed a contract.
Goals are expensive and neither Drai or Eichel can show the stats Laine can and he'll sign his contract after them.

Matthews could be in the 10.5M-11M range with his contract demand, he can ask more than Eichel but less than McDavid.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Matthews could be in the 10.5M-11M range with his contract demand, he can ask more than Eichel but less than McDavid.

I wonder how Laine's contract demand would compare with Mathews. When we compare actual results and potential? I know a center can usually demand more money.

 

[Romang67]

He's said time and again the team comes 1st and the money isn't the thing for me, soon we'll find out.

I'm hoping he continues the Finnish trend and follows his friend Barkov in taking team friendly contract.



He isn't worth the 10M after ELC but sadly we are in an NHL where he could demand that, and if he competes for Rocket on 2/3 of his ELC years who knows where the number gets, no one in recent years has done that and signed a contract.
Goals are expensive and neither Drai or Eichel can show the stats Laine can and he'll sign his contract after them.

Matthews could be in the 10.5M-11M range with his contract demand, he can ask more than Eichel but less than McDavid.

I'd like that.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I'm hoping he continues the Finnish trend and follows his friend Barkov in taking team friendly contract.

Maybe Vesalainen is starting a new Finnish trend.

 

[Saintb]

I don't think there was anyone in Jets office who could even dream of Scheifele becoming as good as he is when the contract was signed.

I agree. some perform better in the future and some worse. the key I think is not to guess during contract negotiations. evidence only.

 

[jepjepjoo]

I agree. some perform better in the future and some worse. the key I think is not to guess during contract negotiations. evidence only.

That's not how it works at all. Teams pay big money for potential.

 

[Saintb]

That's not how it works at all. Teams pay big money for potential.

I am talking about the Jets business model.

 

[jepjepjoo]

He doesn't deserve 10M but those Drai& Eichel contracts really messed up the market, from Barkov/Scheifele/Mack getting 6M longterm deals to 8.5M-> in 1 summer.

If they sign Laine next year and he has a healthy year I'm afraid of the number we are looking at.

At the time of signing:

Barkov

54gp 8g 16a
71gp 16g 20a
38gp 12g 18a

163gp 36g 54a

Scheifele

7gp 1g 0a
63gp 13g 21a
82gp 15g 34a
71gp 29g 32a

223gp 58g 87a

MacKinnon

82gp 24g 39a
64gp 14g 24a
72gp 21g 31a

218gp 59g 94a

Eichel

81gp 24g 32a
61gp 24g 33a

142gp 48g 65a

Draisaitl

37gp 2g 7a
72gp 19g 32a
82gp 29g 48a

191gp 50g 87a

Laine so far

73gp 36g 28a
82gp 44g 26a

155gp 80g 54a

82gp pace:

Laine 42g 29a 71pts
Eichel 28g 38a 66pts
Draisaitl 21g 37a 58pts

MacKinnon 22g 35a 57pts
Scheifele 21g 32a 53pts
Barkov 18g 27a 45pts

 

[Psych0dad]

I don't know why this keeps being repeated. You don't think that Laine played a pretty darn good two way game last year? Most times he gave up obvious offense opportunities to lay back and protect our end. Even while competing for the Rocket, he still managed to back check as well as most Jets did.

Yeah. He leads the team with +32 5on 5 over the last two seasons.

He is obviously a very effective two way player.

 

[ijuka]

It's because Laine's xGF% is bad.

... But of course, his actual GF% has been very good but for some reason, xGF is considered more important these days... Even though one of them actually happens.

 

[BB88]

At the time of signing:

Barkov

54gp 8g 16a
71gp 16g 20a
38gp 12g 18a

163gp 36g 54a

Scheifele

7gp 1g 0a
63gp 13g 21a
82gp 15g 34a
71gp 29g 32a

223gp 58g 87a

MacKinnon

82gp 24g 39a
64gp 14g 24a
72gp 21g 31a

218gp 59g 94a

Eichel

81gp 24g 32a
61gp 24g 33a

142gp 48g 65a

Draisaitl

37gp 2g 7a
72gp 19g 32a
82gp 29g 48a

191gp 50g 87a

Laine so far

73gp 36g 28a
82gp 44g 26a

155gp 80g 54a

82gp pace:

Laine 42g 29a 71pts
Eichel 28g 38a 66pts
Draisaitl 21g 37a 58pts

MacKinnon 22g 35a 57pts
Scheifele 21g 32a 53pts
Barkov 18g 27a 45pts

Drai contract was based on 1 season of high end production, with lot of time spent next to McDavid, Boston got Pasta at the same time for 6x6.6M.
The 3 of Scheifele/Barkov/Mack were the best young C's in the league at time getting new contracts, especially Scheifele& Barkov had taken the #1C roles on their teams.

At the time of the signing Drai wasn't the best player of the group.

 

[Psych0dad]

On that xGF shit, that is agenda driven cherry picking in the highest degree. I find it dishonest.