News Article: Pascal Dupuis - "Why I'm coming back"

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Meh, it takes more courage to admit a huge error than quitting on something if the docs said you're done, which isn't the case here.

Couldn't disagree more.

I don't really agree with Dupuis. If I was in the situation, I feel like I'd stop for my partner. I'm that kind of person. Dupuis obviously is not and likely has a partner that respects and understands that part of him. Especially given the fact that he has bounced around the league and was undrafted.

I think making rash judgements off of reading 200 words somebody wrote is a little outlandish though. Especially when people are saying Dupuis doesn't care about his family. People are complex, and while he may be selfish, I think the first article clearly points out as soon as he saw his family and realized that he could lose them because he was lying about a blood clot, he obviously values them greatly.

You are making a strawman. I haven't seen anyone claim he doesn't care about his family.

However, he did put hockey before them when he ignored the obvious signs of a blood clot that he was warned about after his first one. That's one of the real facts we have in this entire debate, unless you believe Dupuis is lying.

It is also obvious he is going back on the ice for himself, not his kids. I severely doubt they would love him any less if he was no longer a hockey player.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think making rash judgements off of reading 200 words somebody wrote is a little outlandish though. Especially when people are saying Dupuis doesn't care about his family. People are complex, and while he may be selfish, I think the first article clearly points out as soon as he saw his family and realized that he could lose them because he was lying about a blood clot, he obviously values them greatly.

To clarify... of course I think Dupuis cares about his family. I just don't agree with or really understand his decision. Maybe it's quaint but when you make the choice to bring other people into your life that depend on you... that is the top priority and sacrifices often have to be made. That's part of the deal. Regardless of your passions or life situation.

This is all just my opinion. If Dupuis and his family have truly come to the conclusion that they are comfortable with this then I suppose more power to them. But it doesn't sit well with me. I suspect it has a lot to do with another excellent post made in this thread by Fraction Jackson a page or two ago about this kind of mentality across all sports. I certainly don't mean to imply that I think Dupuis is some sort of heartless monster who hates his family. Just that I feel he is making a questionable choice for questionable reasons, here.

 

[plaidchuck]

TVs clots and Dupuis are apples and oranges. Come on folks now we're just making stuff up.

 

[Russian Factor]

How dare I question the motives of a guy that hid a blood clot from his family and team because he was scared he couldn't play hockey anymore? I mean, really?

I have never said he isn't a good family man. You can tell from these articles that he cares very deeply for his family. That said, It's also clear from his own words here that his primary focus from the moment he had a clot was getting healthy so he can play hockey again. I mean, he said it. I'm not making it up out of thin air.

You did more than just question his motives. You made definitive statements, one of which was highlighted in your post I quoted before. Also, are we to believe that you're ONLY "questioning" his motives when you do it with the enthusiasm/tenacity that you have? You've made quite a few posts with a similar theme and connotation.

Re: the bolded - You do not have to explicitly state something to get your point across. Insinuations and multiple posts tearing apart his motives do the trick too. A perfect example is after the bolded above. You essentially go, "He cares about his family, clearly. BUT, "

I find the fetishization of "toughness" in hockey frightening. The Peverly/Campbell memes made to insult other sports come to mind as a good example, and are completely moronic. There is no argument from me there. But way too much is being surmised from this article and some of it seems malicious for self-serving reasons.

Btw, don't mean to specifically target you. You even went on to say in more recent posts that you might've went on a bit of a rant and tried to clarify your posts more. But this whole thread seemed riddled with this kind of stuff and you seemed like an intelligent poster so I thought I'd engage with you rather than some of the dumbass people who only offered **** like " he come back for $ imo"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't understand how anyone could even have that opinion. His money is already guaranteed one way or the other, yes?

 

[TheSniper26]

I'm not one for sentimentality in sports so I feel perfectly fine admitting that I want Dupuis(and Kunitz and Scuderi) off the team for reasons that have nothing to do with health. And it's not anything personal against those guys either. For all I know a couple of them(Dupuis/Kuni) even have some useful hockey left. I just want the organization to move on from this attachment to '09. A culture change has been needed and this '09 vet hero worship isn't helping. Time to let go of the fuzzy memories and make this team hungry again.

As for his reasons for coming back, I just don't really care. I don't think he's being heroically courageous and I don't think he's being reprehensibly selfish either. It's just an athlete trying to squeeze a few more years out of his career and telling himself whatever he has to to justify it. Not really anything new here.

 

[Penguinsyay]

Great read. Dupuis has my full support. Not only is it his decision to make, but it sounds to me like he is going about it safely now. I'm surprised how many people here feel inclined to tell someone else what to do with their life and judge their life priorities. I think anyone that has a passionate interest in their career/trade and is still fully capable of continuing to do that trade would be willing to accept some amount of risk to do so. I don't think the doctors would put him on this regimen and clear him to play if they felt that amount of risk is more than negligible.

Looking forward to seeing him play this year.

 

[Shady Machine]

You did more than just question his motives. You made definitive statements, one of which was highlighted in your post I quoted before. Also, are we to believe that you're ONLY "questioning" his motives when you do it with the enthusiasm/tenacity that you have? You've made quite a few posts with a similar theme and connotation.

Re: the bolded - You do not have to explicitly state something to get your point across. Insinuations and multiple posts tearing apart his motives do the trick too. A perfect example is after the bolded above. You essentially go, "He cares about his family, clearly. BUT, "

I find the fetishization of "toughness" in hockey frightening. The Peverly/Campbell memes made to insult other sports come to mind as a good example, and are completely moronic. There is no argument from me there. But way too much is being surmised from this article and some of it seems malicious for self-serving reasons.

Btw, don't mean to specifically target you. You even went on to say in more recent posts that you might've went on a bit of a rant and tried to clarify your posts more. But this whole thread seemed riddled with this kind of stuff and you seemed like an intelligent poster so I thought I'd engage with you rather than some of the dumbass people who only offered **** like " he come back for $ imo"

I appreciate the response. I suppose using the word ******** may have gone too far, but I was making that in response to Pascal saying his main motivation to keep playing was his family. I personally believe, based on the rest of the article, that his motivation to keep playing is driven by personal fulfillment and a selfish motivation to prove doubters (I'm not sure who these people are) wrong.

Even the benefits his family will receive (his son getting to watch his Dad persevere and hopefully become a champion) aren't really altruistic in nature. Most kids want to spend time with their Dad more than they want their Dad to succeed at X career or achieve Y accomplishment. He's not doing his son MORE good by continuing to play through his condition than he would by retiring and spending time with him.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what I think. It appears him and his family have come to what they believe is the proper decision for him. I just disagree with his characterization that the decision was made FOR his family.

What is the self serving reason I have for being "malicious" toward Pascal? I like him as a hockey player and think a healthy Dupuis is a very valuable addition to the team.

 

[Til the End of Time]

i spoke to one of the former teams doctors about this. For whats its worth he is reaĺly surprised that dupuis is coming back but also stressed how much sid and the rest of the team misses his presence

 

[steveg]

I think his entire career is a hell of a life lesson for his children about not giving up. He was never drafted, had a career he can really be proud of, became a Stanley Cup champ, and flanked a generational talent for 5 years. He has nothing left to prove to himself or his children. If he isn't proud of what he has accomplished and still has this silly demon inside him that needs to continue to prove people wrong, that's truly sad.

It takes more courage to walk away from something you love for all of the right reasons, than to keep playing for the bunk ass reasons he's trying to sell us on.

Again, all the best to him, but as a father I have little respect for his reasoning and think he's being selfish.

I can see your point; you do make some good points. I guess I can see it both ways. I think the issue at hand (at least in my mind) is this -- IS his health still at risk (in which case, I'd agree with your perspective completely), OR have the doctors truly mitigated any risk of additional clots due to continuing to play. IF there is no risk, then what I wrote might make more sense to you. I truly think it hinges on whether him continuing to play is medical risk, or if that risk has been alleviated...

 

[Russian Factor]

I appreciate the response. I suppose using the word ******** may have gone too far, but I was making that in response to Pascal saying his main motivation to keep playing was his family. I personally believe, based on the rest of the article, that his motivation to keep playing is driven by personal fulfillment and a selfish motivation to prove doubters (I'm not sure who these people are) wrong.

Even the benefits his family will receive (his son getting to watch his Dad persevere and hopefully become a champion) aren't really altruistic in nature. Most kids want to spend time with their Dad more than they want their Dad to succeed at X career or achieve Y accomplishment. He's not doing his son MORE good by continuing to play through his condition than he would by retiring and spending time with him.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what I think. It appears him and his family have come to what they believe is the proper decision for him. I just disagree with his characterization that the decision was made FOR his family.

What is the self serving reason I have for being "malicious" toward Pascal? I like him as a hockey player and think a healthy Dupuis is a very valuable addition to the team.

That was intended to be more general than aimed specifically at you. I can't attest to your personal reasons/motivations, but after reading a lot of the thread (which included your posts but was by no means exclusively your posts, obviously) I posted that there was a lot of unnecessary cynicism, contrarianism, and self-righteous handwringing. Especially the last one. All over a matter that ultimately comes down to a hypothetical - that Dupuis *might* lie again/hurt himself.

 

[Russian Factor]

Couldn't disagree more.



You are making a strawman. I haven't seen anyone claim he doesn't care about his family.

However, he did put hockey before them when he ignored the obvious signs of a blood clot that he was warned about after his first one. That's one of the real facts we have in this entire debate, unless you believe Dupuis is lying.

It is also obvious he is going back on the ice for himself, not his kids. I severely doubt they would love him any less if he was no longer a hockey player.

"LOOK. I'm NOT saying he doesn't care about his family........ I just think he is very selfish and makes ****** decisions as a father because he doesn't care enough about his kids is all"

 

[Darth Vitale]

Saw the article yesterday but forgot to comment.

This pretty much seals the fact that Dupuis is a knucklead / not a very bright individual. He thinks it's all about being perceived as a "warrior" and hockey legacy and all that BS.

It's NOT surprising that he's going to play given that the doctors cleared him, but it does pretty much seal the deal in terms of understanding where his brain is at. Also I think the doctors are a ****ing joke for enabling him. If any of us had this problem and went to the doctors after treatments to clear us for playing hockey there's not much chance they'd say "yeah I'm OK with that." But because a career and millions and everything else is tied into it, they apparently feel some pressure to give him the OK.

Either way he's kind of an idiot for making this choice. News Flash Pascal: you're not going to be a hockey player much longer. You're going to have to find a new path in life. Maybe now is a better time to do that than later, for your kids' sake?

 

[plaidchuck]

Lol.enabling him.. can this thread just be closed? Whole lot of projecting and personal opinions being passed on as infallible truisms.

And this nonsense where this board knows more than medical professionals because Crosby didnt report symptoms after the wc hit..

This thread was just a microcosm of how bad this board can be. Yikes.

 

[eXile59]

I don't understand how anyone could even have that opinion. His money is already guaranteed one way or the other, yes?

I believe that if he retires no but he could most likely Pronger it and be on LTIR for the rest of his career.

I don't think it's the money with him. He honestly wants to play. If that is smart or not we'll see I guess.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Do you have a medical background that supercedes the doctors who examined his SPECIFIC case?

If they told him he was clear to go then i'll believe them & thank you again for the extreme case scenario.

The issue is that the doctors cleared him under the assumption that if something goes wrong again, he'll tell them. The fact that he's already hidden symptoms once is what makes it so scary for me.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

"LOOK. I'm NOT saying he doesn't care about his family........ I just think he is very selfish and makes ****** decisions as a father because he doesn't care enough about his kids is all"

So basically you just resorted to making things up and used hyperbole.

A man can make a selfish decision and still love his family.

The issue is that the doctors cleared him under the assumption that if something goes wrong again, he'll tell them. The fact that he's already hidden symptoms once is what makes it so scary for me.

Yep.

He had his first blood clot after he injured his knee and was cleared to play. Came back and had another blood clot, then hid it. In doing so he put hockey before his own health and his family. People can try to justify that all they like, but it's a simple truth no one can dance around.

Some people just don't get it and that's fine. However, Dupuis was cleared last summer and ended up with another blood clot in the fall . That's also another fact. So anyone trying to make the argument that just because he is cleared it means what he is doing is safe, is living in a fairy tale. People who develop blood clots are more likely to have them again, and athletes are even more susceptible and I've explained why again and again.

 

[Penguinator]

The issue is that the doctors cleared him under the assumption that if something goes wrong again, he'll tell them. The fact that he's already hidden symptoms once is what makes it so scary for me.

He was scared but came out & went full media with TWO articles written from what he said (yes, HE DOES NOT WRITE these sensational articles, he just ANSWERS to ****ing sensationalistic 'journalists' questions the best he can on the go, right from the bat).

THOSE 'JOURNALISTS' MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Nothing you won't or didn't understand already Ogre, it's just that ****, the way it's put together, is MADE to make people react.

These guys are experts at extrapolating & exponentialising that kind of of ****, it's called $ensationali$ation of the ma$$!/rant.*

Thus it is absolutely normal that we became divided within such a polarising context.

In reality Duper will go on & probably be more scared about not telling than telling from now on, he (imo) learned & was influenced to do so (speak buddy, it's gold!)

p.s. Nothing personal Ogre, you just triggered my fed-up switch with this thread, which was already pretty high before. Your post represents a totally legitimate worry from a portion of posters.

*p.p.s. Duper is ****ing stubborn to the point that his ego made him fell for it, twice.

 

[madinsomniac]

Im just saying the decision shouldn't be applauded. it is dumb... you can root for the player to do well, but that doesn't change the stupidity of the decision.
This is dancing in a field during a lightning storm... you likely still wont be struck, but the odds are much better that you will than if you stayed inside and played it safe.

There is no real justification for this decision either.

The guy is on the wrong side of 35 He is likely already on his last contract. He has made millions and shouldn't need the money. He has already proven he was a quality NHL player and won a cup.
He has no legacy to establish. The team really has no major need for him. He likely has no spot in the top 6. He is going to come back and play a physical 3rd line role. Any locker room presence can be accomplished without lacing them up.

I just cannot find any real answer outside that this is a vanity move. Pure ego. I mean this isn't a guy just trying to come back from a gruesome knee injury, where in the worse case scenario he isn't good enough and is cut... or a guy playing through a handicap. This is a guy who has a real chance of dying from this... a chance that is exponentially greater playing a contact sport in a physical role.

Can he play... probably... he may even be close to his previous form, and the Pens will likely be better with him in the lineup... but should he play... well, no... the risks are great and the potential rewards... another cup... a few more stats... well ultimately they are meaningless

 

[Ogrezilla]

He was scared but came out & went full media with TWO articles written from what he said (yes, HE DOES NOT WRITE these sensational articles, he just ANSWERS to ****ing sensationalistic 'journalists' questions the best he can on the go, right from the bat).

THOSE 'JOURNALISTS' MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Nothing you won't or didn't understand already Ogre, it's just that ****, the way it's put together, is MADE to make people react.

These guys are experts at extrapolating & exponentialising that kind of of ****, it's called $ensationali$ation of the ma$$!/rant.*

Thus it is absolutely normal that we became divided within such a polarising context.

In reality Duper will go on & probably be more scared about not telling than telling from now on, he (imo) learned & was influenced to do so (speak buddy, it's gold!)

p.s. Nothing personal Ogre, you just triggered my fed-up switch with this thread, which was already pretty high before. Your post represents a totally legitimate worry from a portion of posters.

*p.p.s. Duper is ****ing stubborn to the point that his ego made him fell for it, twice.

I don't care about the articles. I'm glad he did the articles. It will hopefully ensure that there is even more pressure on him to disclose any issues he has going forward.

My wife has been incredibly supportive, but she worries. When I told her the whole story about me feeling it five games before, she got really scared about me going back. She’s like, “What keeps you from not saying anything again?” It’s a hard thing to answer.

It’s easy to say that family comes first. I absolutely love my my children and my wife. But the mentality of a professional hockey player is that you never admit that you’re human. You never admit pain, especially if it’s pain that no one can see.

My ultimate goal has never changed. It’s the thing that I was thinking about when I went into the tube for the CT scan last year. The thing I was thinking about when I was counting out spinach leaves this spring. It was going through my mind as I pushed a 400-pound sled up and down the turf this summer. And it was the only thing that got me through the uncertainty and the injections and all of the medical jargon. That thing is the Stanley Cup. Not just lifting it, but the thought of bringing it home to my family and looking at my kids and my wife and saying, “See? We did it.”

Those two pieces of articles together would leave me terrified if I'm his wife or if I'm management of this team. He's lied about it before. If he has symptoms again during, say, game 4 of the Stanley Cup Finals, does that paragraph above give you confidence that he'd tell somebody about it? I hope you're right and he's learned his lesson. I'm sure in the front of his mind, he thinks he has. But if you asked him two years ago if he would ever hide symptoms of a re-occurrence of something like this, I'm sure he would have confidently said he'd tell the doctors immediately. And as he said it, I'm sure he'd believe it.

Should he play? That's up to him and the doctors. Should the doctors keep as close an eye on his health as possible? Absolutely they should. I would be asking him after every damn game. Also, while I think hiding it again is a real possibility, I don't know if I think he'd actually lie about it if directly asked. I sure hope not. That way if god forbid something goes wrong, you can at least know you did your due diligence.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I actually feel sorry for the medical staff with this, tbh, and anyone else who would feel responsible for this going wrong. It's going to be a lot of pressure looking at Dupuis and wondering if he has another blood clot whenever he looks a little off.

It always comes back to him not telling anyone if he has another clot. Maybe he doesn't have another, maybe he tells them if he does have another, but history says that he's had two pretty close together and hid it the second time. Neither article has said anything to make me think differently. Dupuis can't be trusted to do what he should if he has another blood clot, so giving him the chance to do it is an unnecessary risk.

If he'd immediately done something about the second clot it would be different, if he hadn't talked about hockey the way he did in the second article it would be different.

 

[Asuna]

but also stressed how much sid and the rest of the team misses his presence

They're going to need to get over it...Dupuis wont' be around forever.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Lol.enabling him.. can this thread just be closed? Whole lot of projecting and personal opinions being passed on as infallible truisms.

You must be talking to me.

The doctors are enabling him (in a medically iffy situation), by definition. No clearance, he probaby doesn't get the choice (for purely legal reasons / team liability reasons). If you don't think they're enabling him to take this risk, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary.

And of course everyone's comment here is an opinion. Nobody claimed infallibility. You think he's a hero-warrior-whatever, I think he's an idiot. Time will tell.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I can see your point; you do make some good points. I guess I can see it both ways. I think the issue at hand (at least in my mind) is this -- IS his health still at risk (in which case, I'd agree with your perspective completely), OR have the doctors truly mitigated any risk of additional clots due to continuing to play. IF there is no risk, then what I wrote might make more sense to you. I truly think it hinges on whether him continuing to play is medical risk, or if that risk has been alleviated...

I know 100% that athletes get medical clearance, but that doesn't always mean the doctors personal opinion is that the best decision is returning to the field/ice. Also note that TTET said the former team doctor expressed being surprised Dupuis is trying to come back. There is a very good reason for that...

Blood clots are no joke. My father in law was a healthy guy who walked every day and worked his farm, then boom a blood clot gave him a stroke and he's been incapacitated for nine years and is now in a home. He's been a prisoner in his own body since that day. People around here and even Dupuis just don't seem to get it. It's sad, really.

Dupuis' wrote that his wife is also concerned he will hide the symptoms (so it's not just me and others around here "judging" him), and his response to that is he isn't sure, but he loves his family. I'm pretty sure he loved them last fall also and he still played five games after having a serious ass symptom. It's so ****ing stupid when I type it out that I can't believe it to be honest.

Let's keep in mind Dupuis was cleared to come back last summer, then had another blood clot. Medical clearance doesn't mean another clot won't form again, and that's proof positive what happened last fall. Yet people are naive enough to think since he has medical clearance all is well.

 

[steveg]

I know 100% that athletes get medical clearance, but that doesn't always mean the doctors personal opinion is that the best decision is returning to the field/ice. Also note that TTET said the former team doctor expressed being surprised Dupuis is trying to come back. There is a very good reason for that...

Blood clots are no joke. My father in law was a healthy guy who walked every day and worked his farm, then boom a blood clot gave him a stroke and he's been incapacitated for nine years and is now in a home. He's been a prisoner in his own body since that day. People around here and even Dupuis just don't seem to get it. It's sad, really.

Dupuis' wrote that his wife is also concerned he will hide the symptoms (so it's not just me and others around here "judging" him), and his response to that is he isn't sure, but he loves his family. I'm pretty sure he loved them last fall also and he still played five games after having a serious ass symptom. It's so ****ing stupid when I type it out that I can't believe it to be honest.

Let's keep in mind Dupuis was cleared to come back last summer, then had another blood clot. Medical clearance doesn't mean another clot won't form again, and that's proof positive what happened last fall. Yet people are naive enough to think since he has medical clearance all is well.

Maybe I am naive, Jiggy. Maybe I don't know the pressure on doctors to "clear" guys to play. I guess my perspective was that early on, after the clot was discovered last year, it was clear that he was NOT coming back. He was DONE. But, with that all changing, my assumption was (again, maybe naive) that they worked on it, found a diet/medication that worked, and he ended up being cleared to play. I assumed they figured out how to mitigate chances of a future clot, through proper medication. And thus, that the risk is truly low that he'd have future clotting issues. Maybe, as you and TTEOT are saying, that is NOT the case, in all actuality...

I know next to nothing of blood clots, Jiggy. I do NOT know the seriousness, and how well they can be prevented/controlled through medication. So, I probably should not speak on this any further. I was indeed looking at this like a "setback" or "hardship" that he's fighting through, sort of like when he worked his way back from the knee injury. That's the perspective I was coming from when I said that there's a potentially good lesson there -- the idea of "when the going gets tough, you don't quit." BUT -- if this is indeed something that really CAN'T be effectively controlled medically, with any degree of certainty, then, like you, I'd say what he's doing is IMO unnecessarily risky, and he needs to "know when to say when" and do what it takes to make sure he's going to be there/alive/not incapacitated, and be the husband and father his family needs him to be...

(Sorry to hear about your father-in-law...sounds like you have been there to witness some tragic medical situations. Wow, I can't imagine him living as a "prisoner in his body" as you put it...sad...)