Part 2- 2015 Draft - or ALL prior draft discussion here

[Dennis Bonvie]

Or John Tonelli/Rod Langway instead of Dwight Foster????

Or Tom McCarthy instead of Ray Bourque?

The freakin' Islanders took Mike Bossy and John Tonelli in the first and second rounds with the picks right before ours that year (1977).

 

[BB88]

From this offseason forward we are really seeing the effects of this ....ed up draft

Marchand-Bergeron-Pasta
Connor-Barzal-Kase

Not much to add

 

[MattFromFranklin]

From this offseason forward we are really seeing the effects of this ....ed up draft

Marchand-Bergeron-Pasta
Connor-Barzal-Kase

Not much to add

We would probably have a better 2nd line RW than Kase. With Barzal, Krejci would’ve been dealt for a top 6 winger after the 2017-2018 season.

 

[BB88]

We would probably have a better 2nd line RW than Kase. With Barzal, Krejci would’ve been dealt for a top 6 winger after the 2017-2018 season.

Could be, but just to play it safe have Kase there

The best top6 in the league, no need to worry about it for 10 years.

McAvoy& Carlo on the blueline

Life would be so fun

 

[PB37]

Yeah, life would be good if everything worked out perfectly every time.

 

[BB88]

Yeah, life would be good if everything worked out perfectly every time.

They were offered for Sweeney but he refused to take them.

They were better pre draft and have been every year after, and were ranked ahead of DeBrusk& Seny in every single draft list.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

We would probably have a better 2nd line RW than Kase. With Barzal, Krejci would’ve been dealt for a top 6 winger after the 2017-2018 season.

I don't think so.

 

[MattFromFranklin]

I don't think so.

You think Krejci be our 3rd line center at 7+ million? Sweeney considered trading him during the 2018 summer.

 

[DKH]

Yeah, life would be good if everything worked out perfectly every time.

It doesn’t ?

Carlo, Lauzon, and Zboril all could be in lineup

 

[DKH]

You think Krejci be our 3rd line center at 7+ million? Sweeney considered trading him during the 2018 summer.

He actually didn’t

Not opinion and feel super jiggy how I know he didn’t

 

[McGarnagle]

I think we're past the time where we can project where Barzal/Connor/etc. would fit on the current team. Too much butterfly effect stuff. If we had Barzal centering the third line in 2018-19, we probably don't trade for Coyle, right? Other signings and trades in the last season or two probably go differently if the roster was composed differently.

 

[since76]

And if you changed those 3 picks you maybe don't even make the cup. Again its asinine to assuming that everything remains the same when you change those three picks. Its the one thing that blows my mind that people can't get through their heads. You change those 3 picks and you change everyones draft boards, you change everyones off-season plans for trades and FA. Game outcomes change, players roles and production changes. VGK was a perfect example of that. You had guys like William Karlsson who had 50pt in his first 183gp go on to VGK and put up 78pts his first year with the team. Just because those guys are having success with their current teams doesn't mean they'd find the same success or opportunities in Boston.

Change those three picks leads to a rabbit hole of possibilities and what ifs. But lets just say nothing changes....how is Boston affording to keep all these guys? You'd right now have 21 guys under contract and already $712k over the cap AND that doesn't including whatever Barzal contract would cost....which could be $8+ million a year.

So Krejci's probably has to go, but again he's essentially got a full NTC since he can block 50% of the NHL teams. So he controls his fate and reduces the number of teams you can trade with.....which drives the value down and seeing as teams know Boston would need to move him to get under, guess what, you're probably giving up something significant to get him moved because he becomes a cap dump for Boston.

I understand your point and respect your view totally but the basic point for success in 2020 nhl is the goid drafting ..,,tring to explain how it is better to draft like a deficient person like sweeny in 2015 is awful in every way. We will never know what would be if we had intelligent choices in 2015 but please stop to try to find how it could be worse ....no eay and never mediocrity is a better choice

 

[MattFromFranklin]

I think we're past the time where we can project where Barzal/Connor/etc. would fit on the current team. Too much butterfly effect stuff. If we had Barzal centering the third line in 2018-19, we probably don't trade for Coyle, right? Other signings and trades in the last season or two probably go differently if the roster was composed differently.

Barzal would’ve been the 2nd line center in 18-19. He’ll, he would’ve been the 2nd line center by the latter part of the 17-18 season. Krejci missed 18 games due to injury and was on pace for less than 60 points. Barzal, meanwhile, won the Calder and was over a point per game guy. And, contrary to popular belief, Barzal was not playing with Tavares. Barzal was on the 2nd line with Eberle and Ladd. Krejci either would’ve been traded during the 2018 summer or we would’ve been able to keep him until Connor and Barzal had their ELC’s expire. Connor’s ELC expired last year, because WPG foolishly burned a year in 16-17 due to an injury. Had Connor been a Bruin, his ELC likely wouldn’t have been burned in 16-17. With Connor and Barzal having their ELC’s expire, Krejci likely would’ve been dealt by now.

As good as Coyle has been, especially in the post-season, having your first 3 lines with Bergeron/Barzal/Krejci down the middle would’ve been even better. Essentially, we’d have swapped DeBrusk and Coyle for Barzal and Connor. Every single fan would take that every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Barzal would’ve been the 2nd line center in 18-19. He’ll, he would’ve been the 2nd line center by the latter part of the 17-18 season. Krejci missed 18 games due to injury and was on pace for less than 60 points. Barzal, meanwhile, won the Calder and was over a point per game guy. And, contrary to popular belief, Barzal was not playing with Tavares. Barzal was on the 2nd line with Eberle and Ladd. Krejci either would’ve been traded during the 2018 summer or we would’ve been able to keep him until Connor and Barzal had their ELC’s expire. Connor’s ELC expired last year, because WPG foolishly burned a year in 16-17 due to an injury. Had Connor been a Bruin, his ELC likely wouldn’t have been burned in 16-17. With Connor and Barzal having their ELC’s expire, Krejci likely would’ve been dealt by now.

As good as Coyle has been, especially in the post-season, having your first 3 lines with Bergeron/Barzal/Krejci down the middle would’ve been even better. Essentially, we’d have swapped DeBrusk and Coyle for Barzal and Connor. Every single fan would take that every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Barzal was rookie of the year and point a game player on a non-playoff team. The next season his production drops 23 with a playoff team coached by someone who made him play defense.

You cannot simply say the same production would apply whether he was with the Bruins or the Islanders.

 

[Deuce17]

Could be, but just to play it safe have Kase there

The best top6 in the league, no need to worry about it for 10 years.

McAvoy& Carlo on the blueline

Life would be so fun

McAvoy Carlo and chabot**

 

[MattFromFranklin]

Bumping this thread with the news that Senyshyn has been placed on waivers. It's a miracle that Sweeney, Neely, and members of the scouting staff still have jobs. That draft weekend likely cost us at least 1 cup and robbed us of a much longer window. This was a draft that was billed as one of the best drafts in recent memory AT THE TIME, and just 5 years later has proven to be a generational draft. They weren't prepared and passed on 2 slam-dunk studs who fell into our lap in favor of an epic bust, an inconsistent 2nd-3rd line tweener, and a D with 2 career NHL games. 2 of those 3 were big reaches (Senyshyn and DeBrusk), and although DeBrusk is technically a "hit," he was nowhere near the BPA, and thus was a mismanaged pick. Of the 30 1st round picks, 3 of them have played in single-digit career games. We drafted 2 of those 3. WOOF.

 

[Kegs]

Bumping this thread with the news that Senyshyn has been placed on waivers. It's a miracle that Sweeney, Neely, and members of the scouting staff still have jobs. That draft weekend likely cost us at least 1 cup and robbed us of a much longer window. This was a draft that was billed as one of the best drafts in recent memory AT THE TIME, and just 5 years later has proven to be a generational draft. They weren't prepared and passed on 2 slam-dunk studs who fell into our lap in favor of an epic bust, an inconsistent 2nd-3rd line tweener, and a D with 2 career NHL games. 2 of those 3 were big reaches (Senyshyn and DeBrusk), and although DeBrusk is technically a "hit," he was nowhere near the BPA, and thus was a mismanaged pick. Of the 30 1st round picks, 3 of them have played in single-digit career games. We drafted 2 of those 3. WOOF.

How can anyone still be crying about this draft. No one in the entire nhl pulled out more nhl players from the 2015 draft then the bruins. Anyone still crying about this draft needs to get over it. Every year this Happens to every team. What you guys only value forwards ? Because last I checked grabbing 2-3 potential top 4 defence and a second line winger in one draft is a massive success. There isn’t another team in the entire league that came out of the 2015 draft with a better haul.

 

[MattFromFranklin]

How can anyone still be crying about this draft. No one in the entire nhl pulled out more nhl players from the 2015 draft then the bruins. Anyone still crying about this draft needs to get over it. Every year this Happens to every team. What you guys only value forwards ? Because last I checked grabbing 2-3 potential top 4 defence and a second line winger in one draft is a massive success. There isn’t another team in the entire league that came out of the 2015 draft with a better haul.

Because Sweeney, Neely, and the scouting staff took 2 big reaches and blew an evaluation (Zboril) in a generational draft. It's not revisionist history. That draft was viewed as one of the best drafts in recent memory AT THE TIME. Barzal and Connor were viewed as the 2 best players available according to nearly every expert and scouting service, and Konecny was in that range as well. You don't take big reaches in a loaded draft, especially in the first half of the first round. You do that in a draft that is weak or doesn't have much depth where there is very little separation between a group of players, which is exactly what the Bruins did the next year with Trent Frederic. 2016 wasn't viewed as a strong/deep draft, and they took a shot with Frederic, who wasn't in the top 50 for 20 teams according to Brian Lawton. It hasn't worked out thus far, but they took a gamble in a weak draft which is what you should do.

Another issue was trading Hamilton. It was speculated that Hamilton demanded a trade and wouldn't sign, but Sweeney admitted in his pre-draft PC that Hamilton never asked to be traded. It's very possible Hamilton and his agent being stubborn with the contract demands and hoping for a big offer, as he signed in CGY for less than what Sweeney allegedly offered. James Mirtle (blue checkmark) of The Athletic reported that the Bruins were offered "much higher 1sts" than what we got from Calgary (15th). Elliotte Friedman wrote a blog shortly after the draft and said that Colorado was one of those teams and that a deal was "close". Colorado had the 10th pick, and they took Mikko Rantanen.

 

[Kegs]

Because Sweeney, Neely, and the scouting staff took 2 big reaches and blew an evaluation (Zboril) in a generational draft. It's not revisionist history. That draft was viewed as one of the best drafts in recent memory AT THE TIME. Barzal and Connor were viewed as the 2 best players available according to nearly ever expert and scouting service, and Konecny was in that range as well. You don't take big reaches in a loaded draft, especially in the first half of the first round. You do that in a draft that is weak or doesn't have much depth where there is very little separation between a group of players, which is exactly what the Bruins did the next year with Trent Frederic. 2016 wasn't viewed as a strong/deep draft, and they took a shot with Frederic, who wasn't in the top 50 for 20 teams according to Brian Lawton. It hasn't worked out thus far, but they took a gamble in a weak draft which is what you should do.

Another issue was trading Hamilton. It was speculated that Hamilton demanded a trade and wouldn't sign, but Sweeney admitted in his pre-draft PC that Hamilton never asked to be traded. It was likely Hamilton and his agent being stubborn with the contract demands. James Mirtle (blue checkmark) of the Atlantic reported that the Bruins were offered "much higher 1sts" than what we got from Calgary (15th). Elliotte Friedman wrote a blog shortly after the draft and said that Colorado was one of those teams and that a deal was "close". Colorado had the 10th pick, and they took Mikko Rantanen.

Zboril wasn’t a reach at all. He was ranked 12th by central scouting. Only one player was a reach. They still stole that draft by grabbing three high end defenders and a 20 goal scorer who is tough as nails. I get it. They missed two really high end forwards. But every single year every team misses guys like this. U can’t cry over spilt milk. They really didn’t mess up the 2015 draft at all. They only messed up on one pick. Senyshyn. And he had a lot of the tools that make an nhl player. So it is what it is. They still got more nhl talent out of that draft then anyone.

 

[MattFromFranklin]

Zboril wasn’t a reach at all. He was ranked 12th by central scouting. Only one player was a reach. They still stole that draft by grabbing three high end defenders and a 20 goal scorer who is tough as nails. I get it. They missed two really high end forwards. But every single year every team misses guys like this. U can’t cry over spilt milk. They really didn’t mess up the 2015 draft at all. They only messed up on one pick. Senyshyn. And he had a lot of the tools that make an nhl player. So it is what it is. They still got more nhl talent out of that draft then anyone.

Zboril wasn't a big reach. He was just a blown evaluation by Sweeney and the staff. The 2 reaches were DeBrusk and Senyshyn. Senyshyn's average ranking was around 40 and DeBrusk's average ranking was 25-26 (McKenzie had him at 28). Quality player, but nowhere near the BPA and was taken over players (Barzal, Connor, Konecny) who were superior at the time and have proven to still be superior players 5 years later. Thus, he was a mismanaged pick. Again, I'm not blaming DeBrusk and especially Senyshyn for being taken over 2 studs. They didn't hold a gun to Sweeney's head and demand that he select them. The blame is on Sweeney and his staff.

 

[McGarnagle]

Because Sweeney, Neely, and the scouting staff took 2 big reaches and blew an evaluation (Zboril) in a generational draft. It's not revisionist history. That draft was viewed as one of the best drafts in recent memory AT THE TIME. Barzal and Connor were viewed as the 2 best players available according to nearly every expert and scouting service, and Konecny was in that range as well. You don't take big reaches in a loaded draft, especially in the first half of the first round. You do that in a draft that is weak or doesn't have much depth where there is very little separation between a group of players, which is exactly what the Bruins did the next year with Trent Frederic. 2016 wasn't viewed as a strong/deep draft, and they took a shot with Frederic, who wasn't in the top 50 for 20 teams according to Brian Lawton. It hasn't worked out thus far, but they took a gamble in a weak draft which is what you should do.

Another issue was trading Hamilton. It was speculated that Hamilton demanded a trade and wouldn't sign, but Sweeney admitted in his pre-draft PC that Hamilton never asked to be traded. It's very possible Hamilton and his agent being stubborn with the contract demands and hoping for a big offer, as he signed in CGY for less than what Sweeney allegedly offered. James Mirtle (blue checkmark) of The Athletic reported that the Bruins were offered "much higher 1sts" than what we got from Calgary (15th). Elliotte Friedman wrote a blog shortly after the draft and said that Colorado was one of those teams and that a deal was "close". Colorado had the 10th pick, and they took Mikko Rantanen.

My theory remains that the whole Hamilton deal and the collection of the 3 firsts was built around the idea of moving up for Hanifan, which fell apart and left Sweeney in a situation where he had to pick three players that he didn't plan on picking and wasn't prepared to make the decision in advance. Add that to the fact that nobody thought Barzal would be on the board that late means he probably never put in the time to truly evaluate him, while they did put time in evaluating Senyshyn as a possible 2nd round pick, and he fell for the player and decided to pick him there at 15 rather than waiting and didn't feel comfortable choosing a guy like Barzal he hadn't done proper due diligence on.

 

[BruinsNetwork]

I have nothing to add at the moment, but just want to say this is by far my favorite thread on HFB and I’m glad to be back. Thank you to everyone who keeps this thread alive and well!

 

[Bmessy]

5 years searching for depth scoring yet we passed up on a couple general consensus because the GM failed to have a backup plan when the Hanifin deal didn't work out. It will unfortunately be Sween-Dog's defining moment and the reasonable scapegoat to why we didn't get Bergeron another cup

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

My theory remains that the whole Hamilton deal and the collection of the 3 firsts was built around the idea of moving up for Hanifan, which fell apart and left Sweeney in a situation where he had to pick three players that he didn't plan on picking and wasn't prepared to make the decision in advance. Add that to the fact that nobody thought Barzal would be on the board that late means he probably never put in the time to truly evaluate him, while they did put time in evaluating Senyshyn as a possible 2nd round pick, and he fell for the player and decided to pick him there at 15 rather than waiting and didn't feel comfortable choosing a guy like Barzal he hadn't done proper due diligence on.

When a consensus Top 10 pick falls to you at 15, "due diligence" is a garbage excuse. You take the kid, period. It's not rocket science.

Biggest organizational need? An elite C prospect. What was Barzal? An elite C prospect.

If Sweeney was that "lost" after failing to move up for Hanifin, then just go pick the 3 BPA and call it a day. Doing that would've gotten them Barzal, Connor and Zboril.

 

[LouJersey]

Barzal wouldn't have even played center here.