From what I've read on these boards Barzal showed arrogance and Connor told them he didn't want to play for the Bruins, don't know how valid that info is though.
Part 2- 2015 Draft - or ALL prior draft discussion here
- Thread starter Gee Wally
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From what I've read on these boards Barzal showed arrogance and Connor told them he didn't want to play for the Bruins, don't know how valid that info is though.
I read here (I think) that one of them came off as cocky but who knows what it was that turned them off.
When Tom Brady came to his first camp with the Pats he said something to BB that he would be (loosely paraphrasing) the best decision the Patriots ever made. and that he was going to be a star player.
In regards to the Bruins draft selections, Sweeney's attitude reminds me of Frank Sinatra: "I did it my way."
Yeah, that's what I gathered too about Barzal, I never heard that about Connor. If that's the reason for not picking Connor, I get it. Barzal on the other hand I don't know. Of course as others have said here "hindsight is 20/20."
I can't see an 18 yr old kid playing in the USHL telling
an O6 franchise 1 year removed from a Presidents Trophy and 2 from being SCF and 4 from being Champs
I won't sign with you.
He is a Detroit area kid, so maybe he said something
like I hated Boston growing up. So what? McAvoy
tweeted the same thing as a kid. Further he went to UMichigan so B's would have had him for 3 more years. He signed after his Fr. year. That Connor stuff was
complete crap from Buins apologists here.
stuff is total BS.
Indeed it is. Looking back, yeah, what a flub. But there were reasons the Bruins passed on who they passed on and they were legitimate reasons at the time. It doesn't make them good reasons, but they are professionals- they don't go into a draft like some here have said and think "how can I prove I am the smartest guy in the room." Of all the stupid crap I've read (and said myself) on these forums, that particular line has been one of the all-time worst.
Well to me I take BPA, I don't give a f*** if he's gonna sign with me or not. Perfect example is Lindros, he told the Nordiques he wouldn't sign with them , they choose him anyways. Look at the return they got for him. Assets are assets and I'm not going to discouraged by an 18 year old who wants it his way.
Estlin
Registered User
And there's no evidence to prove that that was what had happened during those interviews. It's all hearsay.
Indeed. Even if Connor and/or Barzal didn't want to sign with Boston, just imagine their trade value. What is the trade value of Senyshyn and Zboril?
Jean_Jacket41
Neely = HOF
There will always have some whining about missed draft pick.
Could whine about almost every pick.
2015 is the biggest forum for the whiners cause three consecutive 1st rounders and players that got drafted afterwards will have much greater career.
When you play what if, you can’t just add.
What if Bruins got Barzal instead of Senyshyn but someone takes Pasta and McAvoy before the Bruins in 14 and 16?
I like this team as it is and while I would gladly add Barzal, I wouldn’t substract either of them for him.
I rather reality than what if.
Whining about 2015 draft or any missed pick is like whining about the 1993 swept loss against May Day. Get over it.
Could whine about almost every pick.
2015 is the biggest forum for the whiners cause three consecutive 1st rounders and players that got drafted afterwards will have much greater career.
When you play what if, you can’t just add.
What if Bruins got Barzal instead of Senyshyn but someone takes Pasta and McAvoy before the Bruins in 14 and 16?
I like this team as it is and while I would gladly add Barzal, I wouldn’t substract either of them for him.
I rather reality than what if.
Whining about 2015 draft or any missed pick is like whining about the 1993 swept loss against May Day. Get over it.
The don godfather
Registered User
Exactly we got pasta at 25 and say if another team got him he went so late and we hit a lottery with him. McAvoy also at 14 th what a steal.
MattFromFranklin
Fire Sweeney and Neely
I totally agree and I posted something similar in the first thread. This smells like the typical Bruins PR BS to try and justify the stupidity of the front office. We've seen this time and time again.
I'd also add, a team that missed the playoffs on the last game of the season in which the team had some incredibly bad luck and our D was decimated with injuries. Chara missed a quarter of the season and Krejci only played in 47 games. If we had a fraction of the injuries on our blueline and Krejci doesn't get injured or just plays 15 more games, that team would've clinched a playoff spot at least a week before the season ends and could've been a dangerous lower seed.
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The problem with the "hindsight is 20/20" line is at the time it wasn't. There was TONS of pushback on their picks AT THE TIME. Zboril & JDB weren't sexy but defensible. The top 75% of 1st round-rated players are generally safe consensus NHL regulars with varying opinions after that. But Senyshyn was wildly off the radar. Rated as a 3rd rounder & a project. Mid-1st round project picks are not defensible. It was a horrible pick then and an even worse pick now. There were slam dunk picks just sitting there. Why do you think people never stop complaining about it? Because it was a horrible pick. ZS is a bust for where he was picked. 100%. Maybe he'll stick in the league in a bottom 6 role. But there was 0% reason to pick him where they did with lots of picks later. And we are seeing the effects now.
MattFromFranklin
Fire Sweeney and Neely
People forget that Zboril over Chabot wasn't really controversial at the time. That was just an error in the Bruins scouting. In multiple rankings Zboril was above Chabot, and their average rankings were pretty close. In fact, looking back at some of the Saint John Sea Dogs threads, most of the fans preferred Zboril and thought he was a safer pick. IIRC, Zboril was viewed as the safer and better all around pick, whereas Chabot had a higher ceiling but was hit or miss.
DeBrusk was ranked in the mid-high 20's on nearly every list, so that was still a reach by Sweeney and the scouts. Although technically a "hit", the consensus was that Connor/Barzal/Konecny were superior players at the time, and they have all proven to be superior players 5 years later. 14 was too early to pick DeBrusk, as he was not the best player available. He was picked about 6-10 spots too early. If we had the 20th pick and selected him, that would've been fine. The Senyshyn pick was an absolute disaster. The consensus on Senyshyn was that he was a mid 2nd round pick.
Had the Bruins just selected Barzal, Connor and Zboril, the franchise would be in a much different position right now, and the window would be open for a longer period of time. The future would look a lot brighter. Connor, Barzal and (insert player here) would be the best 2nd line in the NHL, and take the pressure off of the 1st line. The RW, whoever that would be, would flourish with those 2 elite players. It would cause teams to adjust their game plan, as opposed to only trying to shut down one line. Depending on if they would've traded Krejci during the 2018 offseason, Coyle would still be the 3rd line center. Krejci would've fetched a top 6 forward (to complete the 2nd line) or a top 2-3 D that we need. The team also could've kept Krejci through this year, until Barzal's ELC was up, and been working the phones to deal him for a top 6 forward or top 2-3 D. Additionally, Kyle Connor would still be on his ELC as well. WPG burned one year of his ELC in 16-17 after an injury.
IMO, with Barzal and Connor, we would've won the cup last year. Think about what our top 3 playoff lines would've been last year:
Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
Connor-Barzal-(Top 6 RW Sweeney would've traded for)
Johansson-Coyle/Krejci-Heinen
I agree you can’t argue and complain about a missed pick. The problem is three picks in a row in a massive deep draft and the three next picks are turning out to be super stars in this league. Total misfire.
BB88
Registered User
- Jan 19, 2015
- 40,864
- 20,471
The what if game doesn’t work because they had 3 picks in a row in a draft that was considered best since 2003 and every list had Barzal& Connor way ahead of DeBrusk/Senyshyn, every expert, every fan expected Boston to act differently
Barzal, McAvoy, Pasta is the best u25 core in the league, just doesn’t have a weakness
BigGoalBrad
Registered User
- Jun 3, 2012
- 9,935
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I think you have to give Zboril 10-20 games with Carlo or McAvoy to start next year.
And if you don't like what you see let him go on waivers. Urho and Lauzen aren't good enough to not look at this kid.
I hate how the 4th line is always vets. Would like to put Senny in Wagners spot if he can't go game 1.
And if you don't like what you see let him go on waivers. Urho and Lauzen aren't good enough to not look at this kid.
I hate how the 4th line is always vets. Would like to put Senny in Wagners spot if he can't go game 1.
BigGoalBrad
Registered User
- Jun 3, 2012
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Smartest guy in the room syndrome.
Imagine if they had shopped Hamilton harder and got a top 10 if not the Hanifin pick. Calgary was the third of the 3. You get Provorov or Werenski. And then maybe don't blow the 2 in a row.
If Senyshyn had worked out to even JDB level we wouldn't be having this conversation and few would really be complaining and certainly not to this level, so yeah, it is definitely some 20/20 hindsight. By the way, I am not defending the pick- it has turned out suck so far for the Bruins and will almost certainly never be what it could have been. But there was a reason they picked Senyshyn there, and it wasn't because "oh let's prove how smart we are" like some say. That is as indefensible as the pick because I don't imagine there is any evidence that was ever the case. It was just a bad pick based on some kind of faulty reasoning about the team needs and the player himself. Why can't it just be that, and you all can complain about it for the next ten years. Why does it have to be personal attacks on Sweeney or Keith Gretzky or whoever banged the table for ZS?
MattFromFranklin
Fire Sweeney and Neely
Per James Mirtle, Sweeney turned down "much higher" 1st round picks than 15th overall for Hamilton. CBJ fans speculated that they may have been one of the teams offering a 1st for Hamilton on their draft thread.
Elliotte Friedman wrote that "things were close with Colorado" on a Hamilton trade. Colorado had the 10th overall pick, and they took Mikko Rantanen. So Sweeney not only reached for DeBrusk and Senyshyn instead of far superior players like Barzal and Connor, he effed up a deal that would've allowed him to select Rantanen. Could've had Rantanen (RW), Barzal (C) and Connor (LW) which would've been an unbelievable 2nd line. But, given the stupidity of Sweeney, Neely and the scouts, they probably would've taken Lawson Crouse over Rantanen. Crouse is a big guy, hits people, a 200 foot player, and doesn't have high offensive skill. Sweeney and the scouts love those players.
IIRC, wasn't one of Dougie's big issues wanting to be in Canada because of his mom's visa issues? If so, that would pretty much rule out the Avs. The Bruins could have made the trade anyway, but did the Avs or anyone else actually want a potential problem player becoming even more of a problem?
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
MattFromFranklin
Fire Sweeney and Neely
I'm not sure. But per Mirtle's report, there would only be 2 Canadian teams which had "much higher first rounders than 15th overall" in Edmonton and Toronto. Those teams were never going to trade their picks. Sweeney effed up, plain and simple. I don't buy the idea that Dougie wanted out. Sweeney even admitted that Dougie didn't ask to be moved during his press conference right before the draft. It was likely the Hamilton camp being stubborn on the contract demands and waiting for a bigger offer. We weren't in the best cap situation, and instead of trading a very young and talented D for essentially nothing, Sweeney could've traded Eriksson for cap space. Calgary was also looking for a top 6 forward for the pick we got from them (15th overall), per reports. Calgary had just squeaked into the playoffs after many bad years, and the fans were chomping at the bit for upgrades to their team. Eriksson was starting to come back to form, and he would've fit the bill.
MattFromFranklin
Fire Sweeney and Neely
Absolutely, and deservedly so. Although DeBrusk is a "hit," he was still a reach and was not BPA. At the time of the draft, Barzal and Connor were viewed as vastly superior players to DeBrusk and Senyshyn. 5 years later, and they're still vastly superior to DeBrusk and Senyshyn. 2 2nd-3rd liner tweeners as opposed to 2 elite young 1st line players? Additionally, 2 players who don't have the consistency issues of the 2 forwards we took? Woof. That was poor scouting and a mismanaged pick by Sweeney, Neely, and the scouts.
All I know is what I got from someone here (an very reputable source) who knew the inside story of what happened. Whatever these guys say publicly is just that- fit for the public which typically involves downplaying unpleasantness and controversy. I don't disagree that a player like Hamilton should have brought back more, but as I understand it, there were things going on behind the scenes that steered things into what finally went down.
Krejci being out 35 games really hurt. The injury to
Chara is what it is.
Datsyuk missed 19 games that year
for Detroit and Franzen played only 33 games as his career basically came to an end that year.
Those two missed more games than Boston's top
7 Forwards. Detroit's top 7 missed double the number
of games Boston's did. That Detroit team took
SCF Tampa Bay to seven games. That Bruins D
was not playoff caliber.
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