News Article: Panarin’s agent sits down w/ The Athletic
- Thread starter RememberTheRoar
- Start date
It didn't mean to be a Toews thread.
I think it's a legitimate question:
Would you rather have Toews or Panarin at $10.5mn RIGHT NOW?
I think we can all agree the Seabrook contract is terrible and the Hawks will have to eat it unless the new CBA saves us.
Hawkaholic
Registered User
Because he literally just scored 52pts without anything close to resembling an all star winger on either side of him.
And why would our best C see less PP time?
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- Aug 24, 2011
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That's the question, right? It's not like the Hawks didn't trade Panarin for Saad because we felt it would help Toews. Kane, Schmlatz, and Panarin also played with Toews.
After 3 years, I don't know who's hurting who? Is it Toews or is it his linemates? Remember I was defending Toews as recently as 8 months ago. Now I'm not so sure.
I'll say it again, it's time for Toews to help himself ... and not his linemates to "get him going." At some point, enough is enough. Why is it always his linemates who are the issue?
DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
Saad hurt Toews. No idea how anyone who watched last year could come to any other conclusion.
That's fine ... but what happened the past 2 years? Kane, Panarin, Hossa, etc. hurt Toews as well?
DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
Kane and Panarin didn’t play with Toews. Toews isn’t great anymore and it hurts. He’s still at worst an elite 2C.
Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
It could easily be argued Toews dragged down Saad as much as Saad dragged down Toews
Both were horrible for large stretches of year
DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
I specifically remember Q splitting up Panarin and Kane to "get Toews going." This board was up in arms about splitting Panarin and Kane up. Q did it 2 years ago. Q also put Kane with Toews last year too. The Hawks have been trying to jump start Toews for 3 years now.
Toews is a good 2C. Elite? Better than Kuzy or Malkin? There are a number of teams with 2 elite centers.
DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
- Aug 24, 2011
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Especially after these last playoffs, it can be argued that Kuznetsov is a 1C. Regardless, Malkin isn't a 2C. Just stop it
Montecristo
Registered User
- Jul 29, 2012
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I think there’s a few things out there worth the money more than the athletic
DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
For $5 a month? It’s a short list speaking for everybody living in a first world country that’s committed enough to talk hockey in July.
Hawkaholic
Registered User
I'm a fairly cheap guy, and I bought the Athletic. There is nothing like it out there.
Rolo
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2011
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If we move AA with no cap coming back, and sign Panarin to a 9.5M x 7 (full NMC) deal, we could do this:
Panarin - Edjsell - Kane
Saad - Schmaltz - Debrincat
Hinostroza - Toews - Sikura
Kahun - Kampf - Hayden
Highmore
Fortin
Keith - Murphy
Manning - Jokiharju
Forsling - Seabrook
Hillman
Crawford
Delia
If Edjsell doesn't develop as planned, maybe you try Toews with Panarin/Kane.
The year after, Murphy is moved to accommodate Mitchell/Boqvist and possibly Saad for Debrincat's extension.
Panarin - Edjsell - Kane
Saad - Schmaltz - Debrincat
Hinostroza - Toews - Sikura
Kahun - Kampf - Hayden
Highmore
Fortin
Keith - Murphy
Manning - Jokiharju
Forsling - Seabrook
Hillman
Crawford
Delia
If Edjsell doesn't develop as planned, maybe you try Toews with Panarin/Kane.
The year after, Murphy is moved to accommodate Mitchell/Boqvist and possibly Saad for Debrincat's extension.
That's my point. Don't say Toews is an elite 2C when these are actual ELITE 2Cs. By definition, they are the 2nd centers on their teams. Toews is a good 2C ... just like Anisimov is a decent 2C. So people need to stop throwing the word ELITE like Stan does with NMCs.
Can Toews become a decent 1C again? Perhaps. However, he hasn't looked like a 1C for 3 years.
That's the point of the question: would you rather have Panarin or Toews for $10.5mn RIGHT NOW.
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Some people base it on production and ice time.
Toews has produced offensively like a good 2C the last three years.
Panarin and Kane have produced like elite first line wingers the last three years.
You don’t need to manipulate the facts to make your point.
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Then the defintion gets all subjective. That's what makes the Penguins and Capitals ELITE. The Penguins have Crosby and Malkin. The Capitals have Backstrom and Kuzy. Having an ELITE 2C gives these teams a massive advantage. The Hawks have 2 decent 2Cs. I don't even know who will be better next year between Toews, Anisimov, and Schmaltz. That's the issue.
Hence, I don't like trying to define a player by 1C, 2C, or 3C. I try to evaluate a player by their production relative to the % of the cap. That's why I asked:
Would you rather have Panarin or Toews at $10.5mn? Obviously, position matters somewhat ... but even with that said, is Panarin more valuable than Toews?
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
It’s not subjective. The Pens and Capitals objectively have two centers producing like a 1C.
Panarin is gone folks. Ain't coming back. Dumbest trade in the modern Blackhawk era.
5 more years of Toews and 6 more years of Seabrook. Can't wait.
5 more years of Toews and 6 more years of Seabrook. Can't wait.
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
That's the reason to STOP using the 1C, 2C, 3C terminology. Fans are always moving the goal posts to fit their narratives. Evaluate a player on their production relative to the % of the cap. In a hard capped sport, that's how it should always be done ... because it becomes a zero sum game.
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
If you’re talking pure offensive production, the answer clearly is that Panarin provides more.
