Ovechkin passes Selanne,Super Mario,Yzerman and Messier for career goals. 2 more for 700 goal club.

[JasonRoseEh]

Hmm thats hard to prove because they about never play without him/sample size is too small and from different kind of season's would be interesting so see if Ovy would get injured for like half season how would Caps do. One random game ofc doesnt prove anythink and even Pens had better % winning when Crosby was out this season and before have had better results without Malkin than with him. So it would need to be like hundreds of games with about same roster to get good data without variance/luck playing big part hockey is so random game afterall.

No it isn't, just watch the game. The year they won the cup Ovechkin absolutely carried that team, dragging them to a division win they had zero business winning, then being the true GOAT he is guaranteed they'd come back against the Blue Jackets and backed that up. Ovechkin should have been a Hart finalist that year btw. Against the Islanders just the other night Ovi was the catalyst in them coming back by scoring a hat trick, I mean are you actually inferring that Ovechkin scores meaningless goals in situations that don't matter? He leads the league since entering it in GWG's. His goal scoring is more important to his team than any players in the league. He is the biggest reason they continue to have as much success they do as a team and you're demonstrating an amazing amount of ignorance right now.

 

[Sam Spade]

No it isn't, just watch the game. The year they won the cup Ovechkin carried that team and dragged them to a division win they had zero business winning. Against the Islanders just the other night he was the catalyst in them coming back, I mean are you actually inferring that Ovechkin is scoring meaningless goals? His goal scoring is the more important to his team than any players in the league. He is the biggest reason they continue to have as much success they do as a team.

So much truth here.

I honestly think the two most valuable players to their teams in the NHL are Jack Eichel and Alex Ovechkin.

I think John Carlson is super valuable to the Capitals for sure but Ovechkin is the straw that stirs the drink. If he comes out flying the Caps follow his lead almost every game, if he is off most of the time so are they.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Ovechkin is liability 5vs5 these days he gets goals so maybe it could be said he is not negative impact player for Capitals, but if he would be out and some regular player would replace him honestly i dont think Caps would suffer at all they might win even more in long run. His goal totals are star cult think, but when talking about winning hockey games its just curiosity Cap would win other ways. And talking about if other player's would replace nowadays Ovechkin would take same role lets say Laine would play Ovechkin's role same set up full powerplays being targeted player to take shots mostly there's no question in my mind Laine would score 100+ points this season maybe even 110-120..

*Checks post history*

On brand for your anti Capitals and anti Ovechkin takes that are all over this board. What did he do to hurt you?

 

[Confused Turnip]

Did Mario congratulate Ovie for passing his mark?

I love Mario as a player and would argue that in the distinction between best/greatest that's being tossed around here he passes Gretzky as the best player we've ever seen. But one thing he has never been capable of is saying anything positive about others. He pretty much trashed the NHL the entire time he was in it and constantly threatened to take his ball and go home. I don't imagine him congratulating someone for passing him in the record books.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

It's a shame that Mario never stayed healthy, but I don't think that he would have passed Gretzky in anything. He'd probably have been right there though. Saying that Mario Lemieux is the 2nd best forward hockey has ever seen is probably accurate.

Given eras, Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer in NHL history. I have no problems saying that, because it is likely he will pass Howe and even if he doesn't pass Gretzky, that's enough.

 

[Confused Turnip]

*Checks post history*

On brand for your anti Capitals and anti Ovechkin takes that are all over this board. What did he do to hurt you?

I'm basically 100% certain that moropanov is either Slava Malamud or Gennady Ushakov.

 

[King Mapes]

Is your argument that he deserves credit for what he probably would have done in the seasons he didn’t play? I mean it sucks he and the fans were robbed of those years. But how would we pick a number to add to his totals? Same problem as the games missed due to lockout for Ovi. You can’t.

Not at all I’m just saying when you argue “AO has 8 goal titles and Mario only won 3” is a bit misleading when you consider Mario was in his goal scoring prime when he missed many years.

I’ve argued Ovechkin being the best goal scorer of all time many times, I’m just pointing out Mario would be much closer if he was healthy and didn’t have Cancer. It’s just like you can’t add goals to Ovechkin due to era, that would be silly but to ignore Marios health is a little silly as well.

 

[Dondini]

It's a shame that Mario never stayed healthy, but I don't think that he would have passed Gretzky in anything. He'd probably have been right there though. Saying that Mario Lemieux is the 2nd best forward hockey has ever seen is probably accurate.

Given eras, Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer in NHL history. I have no problems saying that, because it is likely he will pass Howe and even if he doesn't pass Gretzky, that's enough.

mario would have 100% passed Gretzky in goals with similar games played

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Prime healthy Lemieux was better than Prime Gretzky. Lemieux was the most dominating player ever to play the game. Gretzky had a much more successful career.

 

[Vegeta]

It's a shame that Mario never stayed healthy, but I don't think that he would have passed Gretzky in anything. He'd probably have been right there though. Saying that Mario Lemieux is the 2nd best forward hockey has ever seen is probably accurate.

Given eras, Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer in NHL history. I have no problems saying that, because it is likely he will pass Howe and even if he doesn't pass Gretzky, that's enough.

Lemieux missed 479 career games. He played only 915 games yet had 690 goals.

If you take his career GPG and assume he had played an even 1300 GP, he ends up with 980 goals. That's 86 more goals than Wayne, in 187 fewer games.

And Mario played the bulk of his career in the Dead Puck Era to boot.

Even more crazy is when you consider this: 337 players have 1000 GP. Mario is NOT one of them. Yet he is 8th all time in points.

He is undoubtedly on Gretzky's level. He just didn't have the health.

 

[vippe]

And Mario played the bulk of his career in the Dead Puck Era to boot.

He really didnt though.

The low scoring era really started in the 97-98 where goals per game dropped significantly until the lock out after 03/04.

Mario played a grand total of 144 games in this period.

 

[gtrower]

And Mario played the bulk of his career in the Dead Puck Era to boot.

Uhhh that’s not even close to true. His prime was spent in one of the most scoring-friendly stretches in the history of the league. DPE didn’t start until his 14th season. Hence why adjusted stats significantly hurt his career ranks.

NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Lemieux missed 479 career games. He played only 915 games yet had 690 goals.

If you take his career GPG and assume he had played an even 1300 GP, he ends up with 980 goals. That's 86 more goals than Wayne, in 187 fewer games.

And Mario played the bulk of his career in the Dead Puck Era to boot.

Even more crazy is when you consider this: 337 players have 1000 GP. Mario is NOT one of them. Yet he is 8th all time in points.

He is undoubtedly on Gretzky's level. He just didn't have the health.

No arguments here. I think they're on the same level. I don't know if Mario would have stayed healthy long enough to catch Wayne, even if not for the cancer. Mario was a huge guy, and he might have suffered a similar fate to Lindros during the DPE.
My favorite non-Blackhawks as a kid were Mario and Lindros.
I'm partial to big, right-handed centermen that can skate like the wind.

I kind of discovered hockey in 1993- 1994 and I named my dog "Ranger" in the summer of 1994 because they were the reigning Stanley Cup champs.

When I was a kid my fandom was both my favorite team(Blackhawks) and players, as an adult it's more team-centric.

Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr, Mike Bossy and Eric Lindros are the biggest What If? players in hockey history.

 

[SkinsFan09]

On what planet did a guy who played from 1984-2003 play mostly in a low scoring NHL? Scoring from 1984-1996 was sky high. And he retired before coming back in 2000 so actually no, his best seasons were in a high-scoring environment.

Now this is all to say, he is one of the 4 greatest players in NHL history regardless.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

On what planet did a guy who played from 1984-2003 play mostly in a low scoring NHL? Scoring from 1984-1996 was sky high. And he retired before coming back in 2000 so actually no, his best seasons were in a high-scoring environment.

Now this is all to say, he is one of the 4 greatest players in NHL history regardless.

They're referring to Ovechkin, not Lemieux. Ovechkin's peak years were arguably lower scoring than even the Dead Puck Era. In the late 90s-early 00s, there were still quite a few 100 point guys. By 2010 it was just Crosby, Ovi, Malkin and a few guys having random career years. In 2015 Jamie Benn won the Art Ross with 87 points.

 

[King Mapes]

Lemieux missed 479 career games. He played only 915 games yet had 690 goals.

If you take his career GPG and assume he had played an even 1300 GP, he ends up with 980 goals. That's 86 more goals than Wayne, in 187 fewer games.

And Mario played the bulk of his career in the Dead Puck Era to boot.

Even more crazy is when you consider this: 337 players have 1000 GP. Mario is NOT one of them. Yet he is 8th all time in points.

He is undoubtedly on Gretzky's level. He just didn't have the health.

This. We will never really know just how good Mario would have been. Look at his goal totals right before and after he was missing huge chunk of time and consider he was still in his goal scoring prime. He very likely would be the all time goal leader without Cancer. He’s the one who I consider best all time at it before AO came around.

 

[King Mapes]

They're referring to Ovechkin, not Lemieux. Ovechkin's peak years were arguably lower scoring than even the Dead Puck Era. In the late 90s-early 00s, there were still quite a few 100 point guys. By 2010 it was just Crosby, Ovi, Malkin and a few guys having random career years. In 2015 Jamie Benn won the Art Ross with 87 points.

No one guy did say “Mario played the bulk of his career in the dead puck era” which obviously isn’t true.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Lemieux missed 479 career games. He played only 915 games yet had 690 goals.

If you take his career GPG and assume he had played an even 1300 GP, he ends up with 980 goals. That's 86 more goals than Wayne, in 187 fewer games.

And Mario played the bulk of his career in the Dead Puck Era to boot.

Even more crazy is when you consider this: 337 players have 1000 GP. Mario is NOT one of them. Yet he is 8th all time in points.

He is undoubtedly on Gretzky's level. He just didn't have the health.

Lemieux played 144 games in the DPE ans had 207 points and by that point was a PP specialist. 95/111 of those points came off the PP. he also played games in bulk while missing significant time in between.

even in ‘96 and ‘97, he had 116/141 points on the PP and had 15 SH points. His health has greatly declined by that point and couldn’t consistently play at the level he was at, which is unfortunate because like you said, if anyone was close to the level of Gretzky, it was Lemieux.

 

[Dicky113]

L

Lemieux played 144 games in the DPE ans had 207 points and by that point was a PP specialist. 95/111 of those points came off the PP. he also played games in bulk while missing significant time in between.

even in ‘96 and ‘97, he had 116/141 points on the PP and had 15 SH points. His health has greatly declined by that point and couldn’t consistently play at the level he was at, which is unfortunate because like you said, if anyone was close to the level of Gretzky, it was Lemieux.

lemieux was the most dominant player I have ever seen play the game. He was on a different level when healthy. Ovechkin is great, but not lemieux

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

No one guy did say “Mario played the bulk of his career in the dead puck era” which obviously isn’t true.

Yeah, Mario was still fighting cancer during that time. IIRC, he was retired from 1997-98 through 2000-2001, which was the height of the dead puck era.

I personally consider the DPE to be from 1998-2004. It was a short, dull time in hockey history. We can all thank Jacques Lemaire.

 

[King Mapes]

Yeah, Mario was still fighting cancer during that time. IIRC, he was retired from 1997-98 through 2000-2001, which was the height of the dead puck era.

I personally consider the DPE to be from 1998-2004. It was a short, dull time in hockey history. We can all thank Jacques Lemaire.

The craziest part is his stats coming back after Cancer in the DPE at his age. Insane. I wasn’t old enough to watch much of his prime but I remember him coming back and being amazed at how good he was after years off.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

L

lemieux was the most dominant player I have ever seen play the game. He was on a different level when healthy. Ovechkin is great, but not lemieux

I'm too young to have seen Mario before he got Hodgkins. I only know of him playing in between bouts of chemo/and otherwise being injured. Because of that, I can't say for sure that he was better than Gretzky.

Would it be fair to compare him, across sports, to Gayle Sayers?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

The craziest part is his stats coming back after Cancer in the DPE at his age. Insane. I wasn’t old enough to watch much of his prime but I remember him coming back and being amazed at how good he was after years off.

It just sucks we don't live in an alternate reality where Mario never got Hodgkins.

The fact of the matter is, that 99 vs 66 is a question that can never and will never be answered.

We can all agree they're the two best forwards ever and were different players because of their size difference, and if we have to rank them it's an incomplete.

I also wonder how good Lindros would have been without the injuries.

 

[txpd]

Would it be fair to compare him, across sports, to Gayle Sayers?

Mickey Mantle is probably more like it.....or.....Bobby Orr. I mean, if Orr hadn't had his knees killed....we really never talk about him

 

[Dicky113]

I'm too young to have seen Mario before he got Hodgkins. I only know of him playing in between bouts of chemo/and otherwise being injured. Because of that, I can't say for sure that he was better than Gretzky.

Would it be fair to compare him, across sports, to Gayle Sayers?

When Lemieux was on, there were times where it didn’t even seem real. Like he was toying with the other players. I remember one game where instead of shooting the puck hard he slid it towards the goalie at less than a pass pace and it went in because the goalie got all handcuffed. Completely intentional but i still don’t understand how he knew.

In fairness, I didn’t see the Gretzky early years, but I do know I have never seen someone dominate the game like Lemieux did. OV and Crosby are great, but it’s not the same thing.