Oshawa Generals 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 2)

[NorthernVoice]

Hunt has just played this very well because really any year he can turn the team into a title contender with so many picks that he has stockpiled. But because of that, there's no need to do what KIT did this year and say okay this is going to be our year and then you get off to a brutal start and are like oh wait, maybe we should've waited a year

He's only played it well if they win the cup bid and/or an OHL championship. Otherwise, assuming they don't go for it this year, he's just kicked the can down the road twice in years that the team in terms of players on the roster was in better shape to go all in than they are currently for next season.

 

[OMG67]

What about last year trades made the window next season? Obviously the bid is why, but let's say they lose the bid (because if they win the bid then you go all-in next year and there are no questions to be asked). But okay in this hypothetical they just lost the bid for next year.

They traded Studnicka/Brassard for Moore so if anything wouldn't it make more sense if they lose the bid to wait and see how the start is next year and if they don't get off to a great start and/or McShane/Vallati don't get sent back as OAs then you build around the Suni/Tullio/Moore as elite 19 year olds and Paputsakis as an Elite OA goalie team in 2 years? Usually when you trade your Team Canada stud for an elite rookie, you end up building around when that elite rookie is 19, so the trades last year probably make more sense to go for it in 2 years (if they don't win the bid)

Hunt has just played this very well because really any year he can turn the team into a title contender with so many picks that he has stockpiled. But because of that, there's no need to do what KIT did this year and say okay this is going to be our year and then you get off to a brutal start and are like oh wait, maybe we should've waited a year

The point is Hunt feels next season is a great opportunity to win an OHL Championship and he is aligning his roster towards that. IT is also the year his windows opens to bid again for a Memorial Cup Host which is great.

I don’t think, as management, you can play both sides of the fence. I think. If he were to do that, he’d end up not winning anything.

If Harley is available now and he is traded, the Generals need to take the lead on that opportunity. Him and Drysdale should battle it out next year for the Kominsky Trophy. If they have a chance to bring in a player that can dominate the ice from the back end as much as he can, they need to do it. It takes care of one piece needed next year and that, in turn, lessens the heavy lifting next year.

I think they should be going after Tomasino heavy this year as well. If there is any way to get him off Niagara now instead of next year, do it. There is a lot of value in being highly competitive this year as well as next year and those two year player trades are golden for a team poised as well as Oshawa is.

Hypothetically speaking, if Oshawa were able to get a decent return for Noel, brink in Harley and Tomasino, and make a couple more interesting moves to push a couple extra assets forward to next year, they’d be sitting very pretty. That would leave them with the Perfetti deal next year. Maybe add an OA Cedric Andree as well for the net? If they get Vallati and McShane back next year as OA’s, that would set them up very nicely.

 

[Generalsupdates]

He's only played it well if they win the cup bid and/or an OHL championship. Otherwise, assuming they don't go for it this year, he's just kicked the can down the road twice in years that the team in terms of players on the roster was in better shape to go all in than they are currently for next season.

I mean, you could say that's the case for literally every OHL season of all-time for every single team lol... It was only successful if you can host the Mem Cup or win the OHL championship?


But you can't live in hindsight so what's more likely? Going all-in last year and hoping you stay healthy, hoping Keyser stays healthy and that you can beat a very good Ottawa team and then a very good Guelph team in the final? Or winning a presentation bid about why you should host it and then you get a free ride to the Mem Cup. If you have an above average chance at winning the bid (which the Gens do), you have to put your eggs in the hosting bid basket. Now if they don't win there will be people (you) who will be like ohhhh what an idiot he's so dumb. But it's way more likely to win the bid than to go all-in and win the OHL. 2-4 teams every year buy at the deadline then still lose. It's all about percentages, which certainly doesn't mean it's a guarantee. But I don't see how someone could argue that hosting isn't the most likely path to the Mem Cup, which is the ultimate goal

 

[ohloutsider]

I mean, you could say that's the case for literally every OHL season of all-time for every single team lol... It was only successful if you can host the Mem Cup or win the OHL championship?


But you can't live in hindsight so what's more likely? Going all-in last year and hoping you stay healthy, hoping Keyser stays healthy and that you can beat a very good Ottawa team and then a very good Guelph team in the final? Or winning a presentation bid about why you should host it and then you get a free ride to the Mem Cup. If you have an above average chance at winning the bid (which the Gens do), you have to put your eggs in the hosting bid basket. Now if they don't win there will be people (you) who will be like ohhhh what an idiot he's so dumb. But it's way more likely to win the bid than to go all-in and win the OHL. 2-4 teams every year buy at the deadline then still lose. It's all about percentages, which certainly doesn't mean it's a guarantee. But I don't see how someone could argue that hosting isn't the most likely path to the Mem Cup, which is the ultimate goal

Have not heard of any other team other than Oshawa that has indicating that they are bidding on the Memorial Cup and with the deadline of December 31st I think it is more than a good chance they will win the bid and be the host in 2021. Hunt has to be gearing toward 2020/2021 season.

 

[Generalsupdates]

Have not heard of any other team other than Oshawa that has indicating that they are bidding on the Memorial Cup and with the deadline of December 31st I think it is more than a good chance they will win the bid and be the host in 2021. Hunt has to be gearing toward 2020/2021 season.

Is that the deadline? I thought I heard that it was in February now

 

[ohloutsider]

Is that the deadline? I thought I heard that it was in February now

Well it was Dec 31st but if it has been moved forward I'm unaware although it is usually announced by March/April so February would not give them much time to listen to bids and review. But like anything else nothing would surprise me.

 

[dirty12]

I also, would like Harley but can't see the need. The Gens defence would appear to be reasonably strong without Harley. The forward group has little down the middle so losing Harrison would leave only McShane at that position unless they move Tullio to centre. I think their real need is Tomasino!

Niagara might want to try for a second ‘03-1st this year with Thomas; then, a second ‘04-1st next year with Tomasino.

 

[gensfan2k2]

I’m not moving Harrison in that deal but I could see Mississauga interested in Moore plus picks.

 

[OMG67]

Niagara might want to try for a second ‘03-1st this year with Thomas; then, a second ‘04-1st next year with Tomasino.

Goo point. They could still get those two players next year anyway but still a solid observation nonetheless.

 

[Generalsupdates]

Niagara might want to try for a second ‘03-1st this year with Thomas; then, a second ‘04-1st next year with Tomasino.

Problem is they don't own their 1st round pick after next year. If they trade Tomasino+Thomas this year, they'll tank and get a top 5 pick. If they keep Lodnia/Tomasino etc this year, they'll get a 7th-10th overall pick probably. Then next year they'd really bottom out after trading Tomasino, but then wouldn't even get their first rounder in that 2021 draft

Because of that I could see them trading both this year to really bottom out and get that top 5 pick plus the huge return fro Tomasino/Thomas, then not having the 1st rounder in 2021 wouldn't matter as much because they wouldn't be horrible that year

 

[Generalsupdates]

I’m not moving Harrison in that deal but I could see Mississauga interested in Moore plus picks.

During the draft, OHL Insiders tweeted that Mississauga wanted to draft Harrison but he told them he wouldn't go there, so they took Del Mastro instead. Harrison has a full no trade so he'd have to agree to go to MISS, don't see why he would now if he wouldn't 6 months ago

I wouldn't be trading Moore though

 

[Naz]

During the draft, OHL Insiders tweeted that Mississauga wanted to draft Harrison but he told them he wouldn't go there, so they took Del Mastro instead. Harrison has a full no trade so he'd have to agree to go to MISS, don't see why he would now if he wouldn't 6 months ago

I wouldn't be trading Moore though

Who are going to give up then, I don't think Mississauga will just take draft picks, there loosing a Dman so I'm sure Moore would be there replacement. Just saying

 

[Generalsupdates]

Who are going to give up then, I don't think Mississauga will just take draft picks, there loosing a Dman so I'm sure Moore would be there replacement. Just saying

I'm sure they'd want him to be, I'm just saying I wouldn't do that. Harley is a stud, but Moore is going to be one next year too. And although I don't think it'll happen, you are still running the risk that Harley sticks in the NHL, in which case you'd be out Moore, Harley, and the picks.

and if you’re Harrison or Moore (both have full NTC’s) why would you accept a trade to MISS? You know the Gens are going all-in next year and that’d be huge for you in your draft year for Harrison and Moore for his D+1 to show he should be signed. And if you get to play in the Mem Cup that’s an even bigger draft audience on a huge stage

 

[dirty12]

Problem is they don't own their 1st round pick after next year. If they trade Tomasino+Thomas this year, they'll tank and get a top 5 pick. If they keep Lodnia/Tomasino etc this year, they'll get a 7th-10th overall pick probably. Then next year they'd really bottom out after trading Tomasino, but then wouldn't even get their first rounder in that 2021 draft


Because of that I could see them trading both this year to really bottom out and get that top 5 pick plus the huge return fro Tomasino/Thomas, then not having the 1st rounder in 2021 wouldn't matter as much because they wouldn't be horrible that year

right, no 2021 1st pick for Niagara; so, attempt to get two (‘03 & ‘04) born 1sts and try to load 2021 draft with 2nds, 3rds...

 

[Generalsupdates]

right, no 2021 1st pick for Niagara; so, attempt to get two ‘03 & ‘04 born 1sts and try to load 2021 draft with 2nds, 3rds...

but if you wait to tank until that year, you’re just giving away a very high first round pick because the team will he very bad but you can’t use it. And next draft you will only be getting a 7-10 overall pick. Whereas tank this year and get a top 3 pick, then still load up the 2021 draft with 2nds/3rds you get in the Thomad/Tomasino trade

no matter when you trade them, they can target 2021 2nds and 3rds, but when your first round pick is will change. I’d rather the top 3 pick and tank this year, especially with Tynan out now. I’d want to try to be a good rebuilding team next year so losing the 8-12 overall pick doesn’t hurt as much as if my team sucks and I can’t use the 2nd-4th overall pick

 

[dirty12]

but if you wait to tank until that year, you’re just giving away a very high first round pick because the team will he very bad but you can’t use it. And next draft you will only be getting a 7-10 overall pick. Whereas tank this year and get a top 3 pick, then still load up the 2021 draft with 2nds/3rds you get in the Thomad/Tomasino trade

Niagara is currently 0.500, they are not getting a top 3 pick this season. They should make sure they get 1st picks for Thomas & Tomasino

 

[Naz]

I'm sure they'd want him to be, I'm just saying I wouldn't do that. Harley is a stud, but Moore is going to be one next year too. And although I don't think it'll happen, you are still running the risk that Harley sticks in the NHL, in which case you'd be out Moore, Harley, and the picks.

and if you’re Harrison or Moore (both have full NTC’s) why would you accept a trade to MISS? You know the Gens are going all-in next year and that’d be huge for you in your draft year for Harrison and Moore for his D+1 to show he should be signed. And if you get to play in the Mem Cup that’s an even bigger draft audience on a huge stage

I see what you're saying but if we get Harley without giving up Moore or Harrison,who would you give up.

 

[Generalsupdates]

Niagara is currently 0.500, they are not getting a top 3 pick this season. They should make sure they get 1st picks for Thomas & Tomasino

If they trade Tomasino and Thomas, there goes almost all their offence. And they lost their starting goalie for a long time. That 2nd half Niagara team would be badddddd. I think they'd end up with a top 5 pick

 

[Generalsupdates]

I see what you're saying but if we get Harley without giving up Moore or Harrison,who would you give up.

I won't pretend to know what the conversations between Hunt and Richmond have been like. But Hunt could load them up with picks and then a young guy like McKinney, who I've liked this season. Whether that's enough or not who knows, would depend if there's another team willing to give up their rookie '03 for Harley

 

[gensfan2k2]

During the draft, OHL Insiders tweeted that Mississauga wanted to draft Harrison but he told them he wouldn't go there, so they took Del Mastro instead. Harrison has a full no trade so he'd have to agree to go to MISS, don't see why he would now if he wouldn't 6 months ago

I wouldn't be trading Moore though

But Mississauga will want a good young player in that deal.
I want to keep Harrison I said. Moore would be a good add for Mississauga giving up their top d. We can all dream it would only cost picks and plug but that’s not happening

 

[Generalsupdates]

But Mississauga will want a good young player in that deal.
I want to keep Harrison I said. Moore would be a good add for Mississauga giving up their top d. We can all dream it would only cost picks and plug but that’s not happening

Moore isn't accepting a trade to Mississauga. His camp was pretty vocal last deadline with NIA that there was very few places he was willing to go (wouldn't waive his NTC to go to Owen Sound). I doubt he'd even be willing to go to MISS for a rebuild when he could stay in Oshawa and play in a Mem Cup potentially

 

[gensfan2k2]

Moore isn't accepting a trade to Mississauga. His camp was pretty vocal last deadline with NIA that there was very few places he was willing to go (wouldn't waive his NTC to go to Owen Sound). I doubt he'd even be willing to go to MISS for a rebuild when he could stay in Oshawa and play in a Mem Cup potentially

most fans on here don’t know what teams some players will report to and won’t.
All I’m saying is we aren't getting Thomas Harley for nothing. Mississauga will want a young player or players. So I thought Moore as being a type of player they would be interested in if Harrison is off the table.

 

[dirty12]

If they trade Tomasino and Thomas, there goes almost all their offence. And they lost their starting goalie for a long time. That 2nd half Niagara team would be badddddd. I think they'd end up with a top 5 pick

Niagara can be bad by trading Thomas, Lodinia, Sopa,... players that will not be in the league next season. Point is, no Tomasino trade without returning a 1st round pick. If the one Niagara covets is not available now, wait until offseason or next season.

 

[Generalsupdates]

most fans on here don’t know what teams some players will report to and won’t.
All I’m saying is we aren't getting Thomas Harley for nothing. Mississauga will want a young player or players. So I thought Moore as being a type of player they would be interested in if Harrison is off the table.

Yeah Mississauga would want him for sure. Can't see that happening is all I'm saying. Both because Moore wouldn't waive his NTC and because Hunt wouldn't accept that

 

[OMG67]

Problem is they don't own their 1st round pick after next year. If they trade Tomasino+Thomas this year, they'll tank and get a top 5 pick. If they keep Lodnia/Tomasino etc this year, they'll get a 7th-10th overall pick probably. Then next year they'd really bottom out after trading Tomasino, but then wouldn't even get their first rounder in that 2021 draft

Because of that I could see them trading both this year to really bottom out and get that top 5 pick plus the huge return fro Tomasino/Thomas, then not having the 1st rounder in 2021 wouldn't matter as much because they wouldn't be horrible that year

Outstanding analysis.