Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. VI

[krutovsdonut]

Update on the OJ timeline:

solid work. you missed the clutching knee at first practice.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Pretty obvious that at this point they are just trying to protect Juolevi from getting embarrassed on the ice, and that they need to go back to square one with him in Utica. Juolevi took part in camp, scrimmage, and even said he was feeling fine, so it's a load of crap that he isn't playing.

Jimbo can't have Juolevi look bad, or it would make Jimbo look bad. "Quick, hide him in Utica - where my blind homer Vancouver audience won't see him!"

well he did clutch his knee after the first bag skate, but your theory may be right. johnson talked about him being better out of the spotlight, and that might be a polite way of saying he needs to be out.

what i can't get over is the way juolevi came across in that pre-camp interview seemingly confident and very sincere that he had done the work and was ready to go in camp and compete and then cannot get through the first practice without an issue. that is him undermining the team's straight to utica message, forcing the team to change their tune, and then immediately forcing them to change gear again.

and it's not like this movie didn't play out almost the same last year, with a bunch of uncertainty before that one exhibition game where he looked awful.

 

[Jyrki21]

Aren’t we just screwing up his development by not playing him in the pre-season? If he is healthy and is considered a top defence prospect for the team, then there’s no excuse for this.

The Canucks have vowed to play meaningful games in March February January December November October September this year, though.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

"GM Jim Benning says Olli Juolevi likely won’t play games until October. Says omission from pre-season lineups just a reality of rehab and return from major knee surgery last December. D-man will continue practising, as he did today." #Canucks

 

[lawrence]

"GM Jim Benning says Olli Juolevi likely won’t play games until October. Says omission from pre-season lineups just a reality of rehab and return from major knee surgery last December. D-man will continue practising, as he did today." #Canucks

in other words he's not 100% like cmon Jim, he's not fooling anyone. Just say so. His initial prediction (him and his agent) of him being 100% ready for training camp was not true, and it's taken a little longer. Just say so man.

 

[604]

in other words he's not 100% like cmon Jim, he's not fooling anyone. Just say so. His initial prediction (him and his agent) of him being 100% ready for training camp was not true, and it's taken a little longer. Just say so man.

What difference does it make? He's not on the team either way.

 

[lawrence]

What difference does it make? He's not on the team either way.

the difference of him being healthy or not, since we are still in limbo. He will play in October, ok, Late October or early October?

 

[LordBacon]

I have no faith in Canucks medical staff and management so this is no surprise

 

[Bad Goalie]

It's difficult to say, but watching other teams come into Utica last year, most had 1-2 top-pairing type veterans who were a cut above anything Utica could throw out there.

Like, from their biggest rivals :

- Syracuse had Cam Gaunce and then Jan Rutta down the stretch. Plus Cal Foote was an all-situations impact rookie.
- Rochester had Zach Redmond, Lawrence Pilut, and Matt Tennyson.
- Cleveland had Adam Clendening and Tommy Cross

... and so on. Obviously there were some other bad teams with similar bad mis-matches of defenders, but without a guy or two of real legitimate quality to carry the group, it's hard to consider them anything more than mediocre.

Thank you. It's obvious my commentary on the Comets I watch almost daily is ignored by these kind of questions. I have listed the top 6 I see Vancouver wanting Cull to ice and have stated it will be one of the weakest D-corps in the AHL. Running down a list of every NHL team and revealing the at least 2 Vets who show up on most AHL's top 4 as you started is meaningless. It is not considered for a second.

"Utica is a development team and they should play the kids in all situations no matter the outcome."

"Utica is a place where prospects go to die."

"The kid should go the AHL for development. How has that worked out in the past."

I am still looking at the list of prospects that have been sent here and wonder how anyone can consider more than a handful of potential NHL players. The best lived up to expectations at the AHL level and were not acceptable to the Canucks since they take all of their top prospects to Vancouver from day 1 ready or not. No one denies the top 5 draft selections are usually ready for the NHL. After we get out of the first round the number who will become NHL players is miniscule and all students of the game know that. Vancouver has taken the guys that were NHL caliber and the rest have come here. Only Grenier, Corrado, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Demko actually looked like potential NHL players. May have forgotten one or two in my haste to post this. The 5 I mention excelled here at the AHL level. The AHL can do no more for a player than to become one of the best of their time. After that it's up to the parent to make the decisions.

Frankie was a 5th round pick and he got 76 NHL games between the Canucks, Maple Leafs, and Penguins.

After a close to PPG season with Utica Brendan made the Canucks. So far Brendan has played 117 NHL games. We'll see if that number goes up with Boston.

Shink led the Comets in goals and points with 21 goals and 39 points in 45 games when traded. He would still finish first in goals and 3rd in points when the AHL season ended. He has never played that well again since being traded.

Grenier never impressed the brass in Vancouver during his short stints there, but was almost always one of Utica's top 3 scorers ( finished 1 ,2, and 3) every season he was here. He developed very well, but it just wasn't enough.

Demko is working towards becoming a #1 NHL goalie.

Markstrom and Baertschi resurrected failing careers with big times in Utica.

Virtanen learned to be a 2-way player in his season here and it's paid off for him and the Canucks.

Biega forced his way into Vancouver after 2 stellar seasons here. He was named Captain here for what was to have been his 3rd season here, but he was called up and made himself too valuable to get demoted for more than 4 games over the next 4 years. We'll see what happens this year, his 5th year since that call-up.

Most of the rest, like Lind and Gadjovich, last year have not impressed. No one can play for someone else. They have to do it on the ice. Their futures are in their own hands when they get to the AHL.. They learn systems here and positional play. How to skate, pass, and shoot is within their own tool boxes or it isn't. This isn't Squirt, PeeWee, etc. It's not Jrs any more either. It's professional hockey played with older, stronger, better players than most of the kids when they first get here. They are grown men coupled with younger men trying to be as good or better still hanging onto the dream of getting to the show. The veterans and the younger ones returning for their 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th seasons in the league are all playing for their livelihoods and they take no mercy on the kids who can't measure up. The AHL is just a short step from the NHL, but that step is still too big for the majority. Most of those youngsters won't go any farther and some will join that fight like those mentioned above to keep a lucrative career going for as long as possible. A goodly number will play a few years in Europe when the well runs dry here and for many that begins right after their ELCs run out. This isn't Kansas anymore Toto.

 

[bbud]

Pretty obvious that at this point they are just trying to protect Juolevi from getting embarrassed on the ice, and that they need to go back to square one with him in Utica. Juolevi took part in camp, scrimmage, and even said he was feeling fine, so it's a load of crap that he isn't playing.

Jimbo can't have Juolevi look bad, or it would make Jimbo look bad. "Quick, hide him in Utica - where my blind homer Vancouver audience won't see him!"

He was most certainly in need of playing time in Utica anyone shouldn't be surprised and it was said he'd be brought in for camp but still in end rehab phase .
That said he needs a good year to get his game together .

 

[VanJack]

I'm getting an uneasy feeling that Juolevi will play a couple of pedestrian years in Utica and then end up back in Europe. I'm getting 'serious bust' vibes from this guy.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Pretty obvious that at this point they are just trying to protect Juolevi from getting embarrassed on the ice, and that they need to go back to square one with him in Utica. Juolevi took part in camp, scrimmage, and even said he was feeling fine, so it's a load of crap that he isn't playing.

Jimbo can't have Juolevi look bad, or it would make Jimbo look bad. "Quick, hide him in Utica - where my blind homer Vancouver audience won't see him!"

Yeah because “hiding” him in Utica looks much better
What a load of non sense

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Kind of, yes?

Kind of no..There is no schedule for how long it takes for an individuals body to heal..

 

[megatron]

Let's give the guy at least a few games before sticking a fork in him.

Succinctly:
He's done bud.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Kind of no..There is no schedule for how long it takes for an individuals body to heal..

What makes you say that?

 

[F A N]

Am I missing something here? While there is a usual timeline for recovery, the rehab process is often gradual. Cleared to skate doesn't mean cleared for contact. Cleared for contact doesn't mean cleared for games. That's why players returning from injury start skating but no contact, then cleared for contact before they get back into the lineup.

Juolevi has been skating for months. What would be the next step for him? Expose him to some contact such as battle drills? Does that mean he's ready to play in games? Not necessarily and he's been kept out of scrimmages and pre-season games.

So I don't really get the whole what Benning said part of the discussion. Back in August he thought Juolevi should be ready for camp. He was and the usual timeline post-surgery suggests that he should be. But Juolevi should have been re-evaluated as he progressed through training camp and if there are any concerns one would hope that the Canucks take the cautious approach with Juolevi.

Most people don't recognize the importance of self-reporting and how difficult it can be for doctors to diagnose patients. There could be something structurally wrong but you won't know if the player says he's fine. There could be nothing wrong structurally but the player can still be suffering through pains. The human body is complex.

 

[tantalum]

You’d have to agree, however, that cleared for contact means a guy is likely ready for games after a practice or two in every other organization. It seems strange in this case if there hasn’t been a set back. And it may simply be a case of it being difficult to simulate the stress on the body from actual physical battles any other way than practice. After a few days of that a set back may have occurred.

The alternative is they didn’t like what they saw and feel he’s an early cut but are scared of the optics.

Neither thing is comforting.

 

[Askel]

It's difficult to say, but watching other teams come into Utica last year, most had 1-2 top-pairing type veterans who were a cut above anything Utica could throw out there.

Like, from their biggest rivals :

- Syracuse had Cam Gaunce and then Jan Rutta down the stretch. Plus Cal Foote was an all-situations impact rookie.
- Rochester had Zach Redmond, Lawrence Pilut, and Matt Tennyson.
- Cleveland had Adam Clendening and Tommy Cross

... and so on. Obviously there were some other bad teams with similar bad mis-matches of defenders, but without a guy or two of real legitimate quality to carry the group, it's hard to consider them anything more than mediocre.

I agree with everything except calling a rookie in Pilut a veteran (Pilut will be a full-time NHL this year IMO). The comets defense this year is a mess, with a 25 year old Sautner being the closest thing to an impact veteran. Man thats not a good plan to develop young players

 

[DL44]

Thank you. It's obvious my commentary on the Comets I watch almost daily is ignored by these kind of questions. I have listed the top 6 I see Vancouver wanting Cull to ice and have stated it will be one of the weakest D-corps in the AHL. Running down a list of every NHL team and revealing the at least 2 Vets who show up on most AHL's top 4 as you started is meaningless. It is not considered for a second.

"Utica is a development team and they should play the kids in all situations no matter the outcome."

"Utica is a place where prospects go to die."

"The kid should go the AHL for development. How has that worked out in the past."

I am still looking at the list of prospects that have been sent here and wonder how anyone can consider more than a handful of potential NHL players. The best lived up to expectations at the AHL level and were not acceptable to the Canucks since they take all of their top prospects to Vancouver from day 1 ready or not. No one denies the top 5 draft selections are usually ready for the NHL. After we get out of the first round the number who will become NHL players is miniscule and all students of the game know that. Vancouver has taken the guys that were NHL caliber and the rest have come here. Only Grenier, Corrado, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Demko actually looked like potential NHL players. May have forgotten one or two in my haste to post this. The 5 I mention excelled here at the AHL level. The AHL can do no more for a player than to become one of the best of their time. After that it's up to the parent to make the decisions.

Frankie was a 5th round pick and he got 76 NHL games between the Canucks, Maple Leafs, and Penguins.

After a close to PPG season with Utica Brendan made the Canucks. So far Brendan has played 117 NHL games. We'll see if that number goes up with Boston.

Shink led the Comets in goals and points with 21 goals and 39 points in 45 games when traded. He would still finish first in goals and 3rd in points when the AHL season ended. He has never played that well again since being traded.

Grenier never impressed the brass in Vancouver during his short stints there, but was almost always one of Utica's top 3 scorers ( finished 1 ,2, and 3) every season he was here. He developed very well, but it just wasn't enough.

Demko is working towards becoming a #1 NHL goalie.

Markstrom and Baertschi resurrected failing careers with big times in Utica.

Virtanen learned to be a 2-way player in his season here and it's paid off for him and the Canucks.

Biega forced his way into Vancouver after 2 stellar seasons here. He was named Captain here for what was to have been his 3rd season here, but he was called up and made himself too valuable to get demoted for more than 4 games over the next 4 years. We'll see what happens this year, his 5th year since that call-up.

Most of the rest, like Lind and Gadjovich, last year have not impressed. No one can play for someone else. They have to do it on the ice. Their futures are in their own hands when they get to the AHL.. They learn systems here and positional play. How to skate, pass, and shoot is within their own tool boxes or it isn't. This isn't Squirt, PeeWee, etc. It's not Jrs any more either. It's professional hockey played with older, stronger, better players than most of the kids when they first get here. They are grown men coupled with younger men trying to be as good or better still hanging onto the dream of getting to the show. The veterans and the younger ones returning for their 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th seasons in the league are all playing for their livelihoods and they take no mercy on the kids who can't measure up. The AHL is just a short step from the NHL, but that step is still too big for the majority. Most of those youngsters won't go any farther and some will join that fight like those mentioned above to keep a lucrative career going for as long as possible. A goodly number will play a few years in Europe when the well runs dry here and for many that begins right after their ELCs run out. This isn't Kansas anymore Toto.

You should add a tldr at the top of your posts...

 

[krutovsdonut]

"GM Jim Benning says Olli Juolevi likely won’t play games until October. Says omission from pre-season lineups just a reality of rehab and return from major knee surgery last December. D-man will continue practising, as he did today." #Canucks

after the first practice knee shenanigans it would be hard to criticize a gm for making that call regardless of what the player says or does in camp or the trainer says. i think you could reasonably just not trust this player to know his own body based on what he said and then what happened, and revert to a very conservative course of recovery.

 

[VanJack]

solid work. you missed the clutching knee at first practice.

Let me see if I can can get this straight. According to Jimbo and the medical staff, the plan all along was to ease Juolevi back into active duty and not play him any exhibition game as he continues to rehab his knee injury.

Then on the very first day of training camp, Juolevi participates in the 'bag skate' and ends up clutching his knee. If I was a Canuck player, the first thing I'd do is hire my own doctor and tell the Canucks training and medical staff to take a hike.

 

[MS]

Yup.

The optics of Benning saying Juolevi was 'fully cleared for contact' and good to go, then being bag-skated and left holding his knee, and now needing another month of recovery are not good, to say the least.

A touch of Bill Laforge as the team celebrates their history in their 50th year!

 

[DL44]

TIL Benning fully cleared Juolevi for contact.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Juolevi didn’t make the team out of training camp in now his Draft +4 season. He’s a bust.

 

[sting101]

Juolevi didn’t make the team out of training camp in now his Draft +4 season. He’s a bust.

You don't think he will play 300 games?