Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. VI

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iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
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The hedging going on in this thread is comical. Juolevi is definitely entering bust territory. It's unfortunate and I feel bad for the guy, but this has more to do with injuries not giving him a chance to prove himself than it does being "Cam Barker"esque...that is, too poor to play.
But seriously, if he ends up surprising us all and playing 300 games in the NHL after such a challenging start to his professional career, it is highly likely it will be on merit.
 

krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
16,772
9,427
The hedging going on in this thread is comical. Juolevi is definitely entering bust territory. It's unfortunate and I feel bad for the guy, but this has more to do with injuries not giving him a chance to prove himself than it does being "Cam Barker"esque...that is, too poor to play.
But seriously, if he ends up surprising us all and playing 300 games in the NHL after such a challenging start to his professional career, it is highly likely it will be on merit.

he's been in bust territory for 18 months or more. actually busting is the next milestone. sometime this season he will either get traction or fade out with a whimper. training camp is not the place of his last stand.
 
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Raistlin

Registered User
Aug 25, 2006
4,519
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2016 could be as bad as 2011, lets hope he proves his doubters wrong in Utica. I still remember trying to justify picking him over Tkachuk on 2016....and semi convincing myself.
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
22,288
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Hiding under WTG's bed...
I think he'll make it to 300 games, but I still think he'll be a bust.
Many former higher 1st round picks get several 'kicks at the can' based on that 'rep' (being a "high 1st round pick"). If he can stay healthy; I'll think he can reach it.

2016 could be as bad as 2011
1st round:
2011: 29th overall
2016: 5th overall


2nd round:
2011: No pick
2016: No pick
 

lush

@jasonlush
Sep 9, 2008
2,748
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Vancouver
We all expected him in the AHL this season, no surprise he didn't surprise everyone
He will either leave the AHL for the NHL, or he'll leave the AHL for Europe
 

David Bruce Banner

Nude Cabdriver Ban
Mar 25, 2008
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Yea? What a genius idea. What do you suggest we trade for him at that time?

Some other borderline failure like Poolparty, Zboril or Stanley... if we can even get that much return for him. A 2nd or 3rd round pick, otherwise. My feeling is that the more time that goes by, the more his ceiling lowers. Best case scenario now is that he ends up a 3/4 guy. Another year of struggle and it's 5/6 or worse. Besides he seems fragile, so if we can build even a bit of equity with him, I say we move him while the moving is good.

Do you have any genius ideas as to what we should be doing with this rapidly diminishing asset?
 

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
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The hedging going on in this thread is comical. Juolevi is definitely entering bust territory. It's unfortunate and I feel bad for the guy, but this has more to do with injuries not giving him a chance to prove himself than it does being "Cam Barker"esque...that is, too poor to play.
But seriously, if he ends up surprising us all and playing 300 games in the NHL after such a challenging start to his professional career, it is highly likely it will be on merit.
Are you serious? Defining bust is hedging? Get a bloody grip. This forum has been whining about the term when referencing prospects for awhile....where people are basing the players success by getting into an NHL game, I thought it was worth actually putting a definition on the term.

Yeah, if Juolevi becomes a Nathan Beaulieu or Derrick Pouliot....he's a bust. He's not a bust because he hasn't played an NHL game.
 

WHISTLERNATE

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Nov 14, 2017
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I don't think many people expected him to start the year in the NHL given his injury last season. I understand the bust comments, but fully expect him to be with the can ucks by the new year and in our top 4 by next season. He is big, smart and can skate, he will be fine.
 
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iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
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Are you serious? Defining bust is hedging? Get a bloody grip. This forum has been whining about the term when referencing prospects for awhile....where people are basing the players success by getting into an NHL game, I thought it was worth actually putting a definition on the term.

Yeah, if Juolevi becomes a Nathan Beaulieu or Derrick Pouliot....he's a bust. He's not a bust because he hasn't played an NHL game.
Clearly you didn’t fully understand what I was saying but decided to throw derogatory language in my direction anyway. It was a general comment meant to say that there is way more to the bust assessment than number of games played. And BTW, the comment wasn’t really directed at you....
 

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
9,987
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Clearly you didn’t fully understand what I was saying but decided to throw derogatory language in my direction anyway. It was a general comment meant to say that there is way more to the bust assessment than number of games played. And BTW, the comment wasn’t really directed at you....
Oh I'm so sorry for saying "bloody".

Sorry I hurt your feelings. Was not aware that word is considered derogatory.

Would you care to explain what's so comical about "hedging" then?

I assumed you meant myself and Y2k, who stated that he could still be a bust even with a certain number of NHL ....if he didn't become an impact player.
 

iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
7,602
3,959
Oh I'm so sorry for saying "bloody".

Sorry I hurt your feelings. Was not aware that word is considered derogatory.

Would you care to explain what's so comical about "hedging" then?

I assumed you meant myself and Y2k, who stated that he could still be a bust even with a certain number of NHL ....if he didn't become an impact player.
No big deal. The implication that I didn’t have a ‘grip’ wasn’t great. But I’ve been called worse.
It was a general comment indicating, as I said, setting a number of games to define bust, especially since that number of games played could also define many, many players that had solid nhl careers, just seemed like a way to hedge in the event the Juolevi played for 5 or 6 years. A lot more has to go into defining him as a bust.
This was a general comment on the idea and not on the poster(s).
 

sting101

Registered User
Feb 8, 2012
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he's been in bust territory for 18 months or more. actually busting is the next milestone. sometime this season he will either get traction or fade out with a whimper. training camp is not the place of his last stand.
and this is just it.
Basically we all were of the understanding that he may be ready for camp but would have to slowly prove himself as his knee improved in Utica.

Suddenly the expectation changed and now the mud starts flinging? Does anyone have anything to add from the coaching staff or medical staff that indicates he is not good or is this just further frustration for this timeline that doesn't meet what should be expected.
 

lawrence

Registered User
May 19, 2012
15,883
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Some other borderline failure like Poolparty, Zboril or Stanley... if we can even get that much return for him. A 2nd or 3rd round pick, otherwise. My feeling is that the more time that goes by, the more his ceiling lowers. Best case scenario now is that he ends up a 3/4 guy. Another year of struggle and it's 5/6 or worse. Besides he seems fragile, so if we can build even a bit of equity with him, I say we move him while the moving is good.

Do you have any genius ideas as to what we should be doing with this rapidly diminishing asset?

what is the point of trading him who is a trending upwards player for another failure? I don't get this David Bruce. Like, lets say even a 3rd round pick, why would you rather have a 3rd round pick, who is not even likely to make the NHL for at least 4 years from the time of draft? I don't get this mindset. How does trading Juolevi for a 4th round pick make us a better team?
 

Nick1219

Registered User
Mar 15, 2012
1,285
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Why is everyone so hard on this kid and labeling him a bust.

Two significant injuries requiring surgeries, none of which were his fault or were known issues prior to him being drafted. He’ll still likely make his NHL debut at age 21, which is still pretty damn impressive even in today’s younger NHL.

It was clear as day that he was going to start the year in the AHL so I don’t see how this news is even news at all.
 
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rypper

21-12-05 it's finally over.
Dec 22, 2006
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Why is everyone so hard on this kid and labeling him a bust.

Two significant injuries requiring surgeries, none of which were his fault or were known issues prior to him being drafted. He’ll still likely make his NHL debut at age 21, which is still pretty damn impressive even in today’s younger NHL.

It was clear as day that he was going to start the year in the AHL so I don’t see how this news is even news at all.

If he was showing well prior to the injuries, you probably wouldn't see this kind of talk.
 

David Bruce Banner

Nude Cabdriver Ban
Mar 25, 2008
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what is the point of trading him who is a trending upwards player for another failure? I don't get this David Bruce. Like, lets say even a 3rd round pick, why would you rather have a 3rd round pick, who is not even likely to make the NHL for at least 4 years from the time of draft? I don't get this mindset. How does trading Juolevi for a 4th round pick make us a better team?

You're technically correct I suppose... barring another serious injury, he can only trend upwards. But where will that take him? Bottom pairing guy? AHL tweener? European league veteran?

At this point he'll have to do a really impressive about face to live up to his pick. I don't see that happening. Sure it's possible, but the odds long. Right now, I would say his odds of becoming a solid, contributing NHL player are around the same as those of a 2nd or 3rd round pick. The upside of trading him for a pick is that we reset the contract clock and open up a contact space. I'm not exactly sure what the bonus is of trading him for another disappointment, but sometimes a change of scenery is good for a player.

Look at it like we bought a lemon of a car... if we can polish it up a bit and get it running, it might be time to move it on to the next sucker.
 

Dr Black

Registered User
Oct 31, 2015
482
368
I really do feel bad for the guy.

He didn't draft himself 5th overall, I'll give him that.

Nevertheless, he hasn't even come close to living up to that draft position. In fact, he has a good chance at being right up there with Griffin Reinhart, (drafted 4th overall 2012, played 37 games) as being one of the worst top 10 draft busts of the last decade.
 

PG Canuck

Registered User
Mar 29, 2010
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Why is everyone so hard on this kid and labeling him a bust.

Two significant injuries requiring surgeries, none of which were his fault or were known issues prior to him being drafted. He’ll still likely make his NHL debut at age 21, which is still pretty damn impressive even in today’s younger NHL.

It was clear as day that he was going to start the year in the AHL so I don’t see how this news is even news at all.

His injuries is a smokescreen that needs to stop being thrown out there. He wasn't even progressing that well before his injuries started happening. Him being a bust isn't new talk.
 

Blackjackz

Registered User
Jun 23, 2008
232
52
Vancouver, BC
This kid has played so little hockey over the past couple of years, it is really hard to know what the Canucks have in Juolevi. Are the injuries a sign of a player who is fragile, or are they just freak accidents.

Labeling a 21-year-old a bust, after a mere 18 games in Utica is pretty quick to judgment. Obviously the problem is that his 2016 draft class has made it impossible to ignore who JB didn't pick, and I am afraid it will forever shadow Olli. The thing we need to keep in mind, while Juolevi is a JB pick, he shouldn't be the whipping boy for all of the discontentment with our current GM.

In terms of what we have in Juolevi, 2019-20 is going to be a critical season for him. He needs to play a lot of hockey this year, he needs to play in all situations, he needs to be developed. I hope Utica plays this kid a lot, and then we can figure out if he is really an NHL player, or a disaster pick. He has missed way too much hockey the past few years, and those minutes are critical for any young defensemen.

I am not suggesting for a second that he is going to become an impact NHL Dman, or that it wasn't a mistake to pass on Tkachuk, Keller, Sergachev, or Chychrun. And to be clear, I am not defending Jim Benning... but let's see what happens this year, can he stay healthy (first and foremost), can he improve his play without the puck and in his own zone. The clock is ticking, and I suspect we will have a lot better idea by Xmas, if he can stay healthy and gets the minutes.
 

valkynax

The LEEDAR
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May 19, 2011
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Why is everyone so hard on this kid and labeling him a bust.

Two significant injuries requiring surgeries, none of which were his fault or were known issues prior to him being drafted. He’ll still likely make his NHL debut at age 21, which is still pretty damn impressive even in today’s younger NHL.

It was clear as day that he was going to start the year in the AHL so I don’t see how this news is even news at all.

Because even when he's not injured, he's really not done much to instill fans with confidence. His problems were carried over from pre-draft til now, and these problems don't seem to be improving much.

A bust is a prospect who failed to live up to the hype/hope/pedigree relative to his draft position.

I myself am not putting the stamp of "busted!" on him just yet, but so far he's done next to nothing to show that his future will be something that matches his 5th overall draft rank. If nothing changes, he will most decidedly become a bust.

And let's not forget who we passed to get him - a nigh-PPG elite winger who brings a nasty edge to the game. I still remember someone saying that Tkachuk is not a franchise player, he's not an elite player you can depend on.

I would very much like to see that kind of comments to be posted right now.
 
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