Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. V

[Krnuckfan]

Yeah,we wouldn't want to start ragging on him would we..?

Yeah petterssons development curve is totally similar to juolevis.

 

[CanaFan]

Yeah,we wouldn't want to start ragging on him would we..?

Ya, cause we always rag on successful draft picks

 

[Nuckies]

Assuming we drafted Tkachuk, I'd imagine you'd basically be picking between him and Boeser this offseason, and moving the other guy for a defenseman. I realize they play opposite wings, but they're both going to get $8M+ AAV on long-term deals. I'd think you'd probably want to trade one for an equivalent young defenseman and rotate some of that salary to the blue line.

In terms of Juolevi, let's just try and get this guy a full season. We have no idea what we have because he's played a grand total of 56 league games in the past two years. Hopefully he can actually stay healthy because there's a chance he could develop into a second-pairing PP specialist that plays sheltered minutes.

Lol Sheltered minutes? You clearly think this kid is 4'2'' and 28 years old smh

 

[timw33]

Lol Sheltered minutes? You clearly think this kid is 4'2'' and 28 years old smh

Anyone having a hard time figuring out who in this thread didn't actually watch the games?

This is confirmed by several Utica Comet (not Canuck) fans. Coaches did not trust him to handle defensive assignments and played him sheltered 3rd pairing ES minutes.

 

[Grub]

We knew this pick was a mistake as soon as we heard Benning say his name.

 

[Carnal]

Anyone having a hard time figuring out who in this thread didn't actually watch the games?

This is confirmed by several Utica Comet (not Canuck) fans. Coaches did not trust him to handle defensive assignments and played him sheltered 3rd pairing ES minutes.

I'm so sick of all the negativity and pessimism here regarding our team. Facts, evidence and stats are so secondary to fanatic optimism. If you let facts, evidence and stats get in the way of evaluating our 'gutsy' picks than you are not a real Canucks fan.

 

[Carnal]

We knew this pick was a mistake as soon as we heard Benning say his name.

I can't even forcibly forget where I was when he was picked. It's like an historic setting printed into my memory... like when the other OJ was found not guilty, I still remember where I was and how I found out. Yet I'm starting to forget important things in my life yet I remember the nonsense... (sigh)...

Anyway, Tkachuk is overrated, Juolevi is like the next Bobby Orr, but with that Finnish sense of humor...

 

[Grub]

I can't even forcibly forget where I was when he was picked. It's like an historic setting printed into my memory... like when the other OJ was found not guilty, I still remember where I was and how I found out. Yet I'm starting to forget important things in my life yet I remember the nonsense... (sigh)...

Anyway, Tkachuk is overrated, Juolevi is like the next Bobby Orr, but with that Finnish sense of humor...

I have a very sharp memory, so yes I do remember where I was and my feelings when Benning made the pick.

 

[Scott Stevens]

I have a very sharp memory, so yes I do remember where I was and my feelings when Benning made the pick.

I was driving east on Kingsway, passing the Safeway at Joyce on my right. I expected Tkachuk and kinda just exhaled when I heard Juolevi.

 

[Deeds26]

I have a very sharp memory, so yes I do remember where I was and my feelings when Benning made the pick.

I was golfing, 9th hole of the Alberni Golf Club when I looked at my phone for an update and saw who they picked. Annoyed for the fact it wasnt Tkachuk, but didn't hate the pick at the time.

 

[Albatros]

when has Juolevi actually looked impressive?

This season he had the most points per game of all U21 defensemen in the AHL. Last year he was the second best in Liiga after Heiskanen. Unless you're expecting him to be a bona fide superstar he's been fairly impressive at least in terms of production. Picking him fifth overall was too high, but he's a good player regardless.

 

[CanaFan]

This season he had the most points per game of all U21 defensemen in the AHL. Last year he was the second best in Liiga after Heiskanen. Unless you're expecting him to be a bona fide superstar he's been fairly impressive at least in terms of production. Picking him fifth overall was too high, but he's a good player regardless.

Read up on his total game this season in the AHL. A handful of assists does not a strong season make.

And he was the second best ... what? ... in Liiga 2 years ago? Player? No. U20 defenseman? Arguably he was in the second half, not that it’s a high bar after you exclude Heiskanen.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

And I was just leaving work when Juolevi was picked, hitting refresh on the hfCanucks page when I saw the new thread: Player discussion: Olli Juolevi. I stopped and started shouting at my phone in the middle of the parking lot: "Olli f***ing Juolevi?! Are you f***ing KIDDING ME?!" while other, more mild-mannered people cautiously observed my outburst from a wary distance. I can't claim to have any clairvoyance regarding Virtanen or Pettersson at the time they were picked, but I hated the Juolevi pick the instant it was made. Not only did Benning not take the best player available, he didn't even take the best dman available.

 

[Scott Stevens]

I cannot believe some of you are cheering for St. Louis. I believe this petty bullshit we perpetually bicker over is hugely symptomatic of the fact our team has never won the cup. You really want blues fans to be free of this awful existence we live in? Boston already broke our hearts. 8 years ago. Who cares what they do now. You really want fans in Missouri stumbling around drunk and happier than they have ever been blathering on about “Gloria” and freed from the horrible existence we live as Canucks fans with no Stanley Cups to enjoy after 5 decades?

 

[Albatros]

Read up on his total game this season in the AHL. A handful of assists does not a strong season make.

And he was the second best ... what? ... in Liiga 2 years ago? Player? No. U20 defenseman? Arguably he was in the second half, not that it’s a high bar after you exclude Heiskanen.

U21 defenseman, as in the AHL. This season he was better than Bean (Carolina #13 2016), Foote (Tampa #14 2017), Brännström (Ottawa #15 2017), Välimäki (Calgary #16 2017), Liljegren (Toronto #17 2017), Stanley (Winnipeg #18 2016), Cholowski (Detroit #20 2016), and Jokiharju (Chicago #29 2017). Vaakanainen (Boston #18 2017) he bested both this and last season. So for a mid-round pick he'd be doing well, his only crime is having went fifth which was a tad too high. Make it fifteenth and he's fine.

 

[xtra]

U21 defenseman, as in the AHL. This season he was better than Bean (Carolina #13 2016), Foote (Tampa #14 2017), Brännström (Ottawa #15 2017), Välimäki (Calgary #16 2017), Liljegren (Toronto #17 2017), Stanley (Winnipeg #18 2016), Cholowski (Detroit #20 2016), and Jokiharju (Chicago #29 2017). Vaakanainen (Boston #18 2017) he bested both this and last season. So for a mid-round pick he'd be doing well, his only crime is having went fifth which was a tad too high. Make it fifteenth and he's fine.

But he wasn’t 15th was he.


Also how many games did those guys play compared to OJ; ppg when one guy plays 15 games is a useless stat

 

[Albatros]

But he wasn’t 15th was he.

Also how many games did those guys play compared to OJ; ppg when one guy plays 15 games is a useless stat

It's not on him that the Canucks failed to take the best player available at that point, regarding what he is or will become as a player it's meaningless. No backsies, make the best of what you've got.

His season albeit short was on par with his level of play last season in Finland, so there's no reason to believe his strong AHL debut to be some kind of a fluke despite his injury. The next step is to build on that and have a good full season, hopefully debut also in the NHL at least for a few games.

 

[Carnal]

And I was just leaving work when Juolevi was picked, hitting refresh on the hfCanucks page when I saw the new thread: Player discussion: Olli Juolevi. I stopped and started shouting at my phone in the middle of the parking lot: "Olli ****ing Juolevi?! Are you ****ing KIDDING ME?!" while other, more mild-mannered people cautiously observed my outburst from a wary distance. I can't claim to have any clairvoyance regarding Virtanen or Pettersson at the time they were picked, but I hated the Juolevi pick the instant it was made. Not only did Benning not take the best player available, he didn't even take the best dman available.

I was stuck in traffic at the tunnel when Virtanen was picked though I had no opinion of that draft at the time but all the radio buffs kept emphasizing local boy local boy. When Juolevi was picked I was several beer deep at the pub, wondering if I was crazy for thinking Tkachuk would have been the better choice.

Then at that same pub when Pettersson and Hughes were picked. The 2015 draft is a lost memory for me, perhaps also at that same pub.

 

[CanaFan]

U21 defenseman, as in the AHL. This season he was better than Bean (Carolina #13 2016), Foote (Tampa #14 2017), Brännström (Ottawa #15 2017), Välimäki (Calgary #16 2017), Liljegren (Toronto #17 2017), Stanley (Winnipeg #18 2016), Cholowski (Detroit #20 2016), and Jokiharju (Chicago #29 2017). Vaakanainen (Boston #18 2017) he bested both this and last season. So for a mid-round pick he'd be doing well, his only crime is having went fifth which was a tad too high. Make it fifteenth and he's fine.

By what measure was Juolevi “better” than all those guys though?

Plus 2/3 of those guys are a year younger than Olli at an age where players are developing rapidly. Hell, the actually good defensemen from Juolevi’s draft year are in the NHL and aren’t even eligible for this comparison.

 

[Albatros]

By what measure was Juolevi “better” than all those guys though?

More points per game, so the best offensively.

Plus 2/3 of those guys are a year younger than Olli at an age where players are developing rapidly. Hell, the actually good defensemen from Juolevi’s draft year are in the NHL and aren’t even eligible for this comparison.

Those would be Sergachyov, McAvoy and Chychrun. As good as Sergachyov he will never be, but there's not much of a gap to Chychrun.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

And really, just the surgery and injury history Juolevi's sustained this early on in his career puts everything in doubt all by itself. That's not even taking into account where he was picked in the draft or whether he was the right choice at the time (even though he totally wasn't).

I do recall a certain Hunter Shinkaruk looked like a terrific pick once upon a time where he was chosen...then he had hip surgery, lost a year of development and was never the same player again. That's all it takes. It's unfair, it's random, but there it is.

 

[4Twenty]

More points per game, so the best offensively.

I'm guessing you haven't read the Utica thread. The guy was sheltered 5 on 5 and was still minus-12 in only 18 games. Almost all offensive situations, no PKing.

Nearly all his production was PP and secondary points.

The level of analysis you're providing here is incredibly shallow and really does nothing to speak of the struggles he had in the AHL.

 

[CanaFan]

More points per game, so the best offensively.

PPG over 18 games is a very poor way to claim a defenseman was “better”. Do you also project Juoevi’s -12 over an entire 82 games too?

Those would be Sergachyov, McAvoy and Chychrun. As good as Sergachyov he will never be, but there's not much of a gap to Chychrun.

But that’s the problem, he *should* be able to be as good as these 20 year old defensemen that were drafted 9, 14, and 16. Those are his relevant peers, not guys drafted in 2017 or projects like Choloeski drafted much later in the first round.

If Juolevi was tracking like the first group of guys - not a big ask for a 5th overall pick - then this thread would be full of praise for the kid. But when you have to resort to extolling his 18 game PPG vs Dennis Cholowski, you’re really damning him with faint praise.

 

[Nuckies]

But he wasn’t 15th was he.


Also how many games did those guys play compared to OJ; ppg when one guy plays 15 games is a useless stat

OJ played 18 maybe look at his stats

 

[Nuckies]

More points per game, so the best offensively.



Those would be Sergachyov, McAvoy and Chychrun. As good as Sergachyov he will never be, but there's not much of a gap to Chychrun.

Actually Sergachev was in the press box a few times last year for his lack of defensive acumen.

He’s on a stacked team of superstars, it’s easy to put up points, but as a dman, he has a lot to learn.

To suggest OJ can’t be a better dman (all around) before even seeing him play 2 years in the NHL, is premature and ridiculous