Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. V

[Hit the post]

Saw a stat where Jim Benning had 5th highest score 18 year old season defense scoring season in nhl history. That did not seem right Dahlen just moved Jim down.

We could use a D man like Jim Benning now.

 

[TruGr1t]

Still, let’s see how he looks in a Canuck uniform first. Agree though that the clock is ticking on him (mainly because other prospects will be passing him on the depth chart if he can’t stay healthy AND improve.

And that's fair. I've maintained over this thread that there's a chance Juolevi turns it around and has a solid NHL career. It could happen.

Juolevi could also still become a top four, or even top pairing guy. It's just highly unlikely.

I'm just arguing you can't look at his post-draft work to date and be particularly optimistic. He appears to be busting.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

He was used as the shutdown guy by Dale Hunter. His gap control, skating, and ability to win puck battles can improve. His strength is suppose to be his hockey IQ and ability to transition the puck up ice. He also has a 6'3" frame.

That's true. He was really good in midget as well.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Still, let’s see how he looks in a Canuck uniform first. Agree though that the clock is ticking on him (mainly because other prospects will be passing him on the depth chart if he can’t stay healthy AND improve.

The addition of Teves should worry Juolevi a lot. That’s a guy who could easily replace him in Utica full time next year on the PP and left side of the defence.

 

[1440]

You completely missed my point; you can say because a player put up 100 points in junior and is successful at the nhl level another player putting up those same points in junior will be successful as well. There is no correlation at all

I think you misunderstand correlation. There absolutely is correlation between production in the CHL and in the NHL. This correlation is not r=1, but nothing in real correlations is.
Your statement that we should account for other factors (ie: teammates) is true, but it does not mean that we should ignore the original point values.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

This pick will irritate me forever.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

This pick will irritate me forever.

Will it cut deeper when the Flames win a Cup? So far Tkachuk and Andersson have like 1/3 of the Flames playoff goals. Both guys could have been Canucks without stupidity

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Andersson would look really nice in our colours, but there’s no guarantee we would have picked him there. It’s not like we gave him up for Baertschi.

 

[Hit the post]

Andersson would look really nice in our colours, but there’s no guarantee we would have picked him there. It’s not like we gave him up for Baertschi.

The drafting guru would've picked him.

 

[The Poacher]

When I look at Juolevi I see a lot of parallels to Ben Huttons game when he first got to the NHL. Both similar size, make a good first pass, wrist shots through on goal. Share similar weaknesses like bad laterally, weak in front of their goal, lack physicality, poor conditioning and had a tendency to rely heavily on stick checking.

I give a lot of credit to Green and his tough love with Hutton, on improving his weaknesses.

It’s been rough for Juolevi with the injurys and lack of development during such crucial years. Hopefully he can make similar strides to Hutton. He needs another full year in the AHL I would think, or at least half a season. If the Canucks run into injury trouble again which I’m sure they will, I think Green could be really good for Juolevi’s development if he were to get called up. I’m sure the tough love treatment is needed with this player as he’s had the same weaknesses for a while now that he’s yet to improve upon.

 

[Jyrki21]

i'll start. derrick pouliot, erik gudbranson, andrey pedan, luca sbisa, adam clendening, cam barker, ryan parent, lukas krajicek, steve mccarthy, nolan baumgartner, drake berehowsky, scott lachance, greg hawgood, chris joseph, adrian plavsic, and jim benning.

Hey now, Scott Lachance played 800 NHL games as a steady defender. Underwhelming at 3rd overall, yes, but not exactly a bust...

 

[Hit the post]

I give a lot of credit to Green and his tough love with Hutton

By pairing him up with Guds? That kind of tough love would have child welfare authorities come in to arrest Green for child endangerment.

 

[The Poacher]

By pairing him up with Guds? That kind of tough love would have child welfare authorities come in to arrest Green for child endangerment.

Hahahha, unfortunately Bennings gafs have to play somewhere.

 

[Scorvat]

He was used as the shutdown guy by Dale Hunter. His gap control, skating, and ability to win puck battles can improve. His strength is suppose to be his hockey IQ and ability to transition the puck up ice. He also has a 6'3" frame.

London fans (they were in the previous threads) said OJ struggled in this role, often getting beat in transition, and not playing the body enough relying to much on his stick.

He has been the furthest thing from a shutdown guy these last 2 years

 

[F A N]

London fans (they were in the previous threads) said OJ struggled in this role, often getting beat in transition, and not playing the body enough relying to much on his stick.

He has been the furthest thing from a shutdown guy these last 2 years

I'm not saying he's a shutdown guy. My point is that his coach in London did see it fitting for him to play that role so my point is that if he can transition the puck well his "defensive zone play will [not] likely hold him back from being more than a 3rd pairing defenseman."

Juolevi was drafted for his hockey IQ and ability to transition the puck. He's going to need to improve his skating, keep his feet moving, and improve his gap control. It's up to him but the whole point of drafting a guy with high hockey IQ is that he's suppose to be able to process the game quickly and be able to learn from mistakes.

 

[4Twenty]

Juolevi was not used as a shutdown defender with the London Knights, anybody putting that out there clearly didn't watch.

Juolevi played on the offensive 2nd pair with Bouchard while Mete was the matchup Dman,

 

[Bankerguy]

Imagine if he comes into camp, makes the team.
Plays the whole season. Averages 18 minutes a night. Scores 20-25 points on the season, and provides "adqeuate" defensive play in his own zone.

That's like best case scenario and it would still be considered "under performing" based on where he was drafted.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Imagine if he comes into camp, makes the team.
Plays the whole season. Averages 18 minutes a night. Scores 20-25 points on the season, and provides "adqeuate" defensive play in his own zone.

That's like best case scenario and it would still be considered "under performing" based on where he was drafted.

So a slightly better Derrick Pouliot? That’s the hope for this kid these days? Man Benning has done such a good job lower the bar in Vancouver

 

[RobertKron]

So a slightly better Derrick Pouliot? That’s the hope for this kid these days? Man Benning has done such a good job lower the bar in Vancouver

FWIW, the only defenseman to score more than 25 points since Benning got here was already here.

Also, I don't even know what the hell OP is talking about. A defensively sound, all-rounder 25p defenseman at 21 would be fine for his draft spot, in general. The problems are that there were better options, and also the biggest problem: how likely does that look?

 

[bandwagonesque]

So a slightly better Derrick Pouliot? That’s the hope for this kid these days? Man Benning has done such a good job lower the bar in Vancouver

Since the hope is based on a rational assessment of this particular player's performance so far rather than any general standard of what constitutes good performance or what a 5th overall pick should achieve, your comment doesn't make much sense.

 

[RobertKron]

Since the hope is based on a rational assessment of this particular player's performance so far rather than any general standard of what constitutes good performance, your comment doesn't make much sense.

You think what you've outlined is a reasonable expectation for Juolevi next season?

 

[bandwagonesque]

You think what you've outlined is a reasonable expectation for Juolevi next season?

I'm not sure what you're talking about because I haven't outlined any expectations for his season. I haven't watched him enough and we don't know yet how well he'll heal or how much playing through injury affected his performance. Considering how talented he is yet how convoluted his path to the league has been, I don't think any specific set of expectations suggests itself. I was just pointing out the misinterpretation of one person's stated expectations for Juolevi as an individual player as evidence people's expectations in general have lowered, which itself may or may not be true. He'll start the season in Utica, hopefully fully healthy, and then we'll have something to talk about.

 

[docbenton]

Imagine if he comes into camp, makes the team.
Plays the whole season. Averages 18 minutes a night. Scores 20-25 points on the season, and provides "adqeuate" defensive play in his own zone.

That's like best case scenario and it would still be considered "under performing" based on where he was drafted.

There are core elements to a defenseman's job description beyond scoring points and defensive play. [MOD] What I want to see is him transition the puck against pressure at a high level, in addition to contributing offensively and defensively. That's what he's good at and why he was drafted, and it's hard to find those guys. He's also a pretty clever PP player, but that's a secondary asset.

 

[Bankerguy]

There are core elements to a defenseman's job description beyond scoring points and defensive play. [MOD] What I want to see is him transition the puck against pressure at a high level, in addition to contributing offensively and defensively. That's what he's good at and why he was drafted, and it's hard to find those guys. He's also a pretty clever PP player, but that's a secondary asset.

[MOD]
I'm aware that he was drafted with the label of being a good transition defenseman who kept calm and cool under-pressure

 

[Bankerguy]

FWIW, the only defenseman to score more than 25 points since Benning got here was already here.

Also, I don't even know what the hell OP is talking about. A defensively sound, all-rounder 25p defenseman at 21 would be fine for his draft spot, in general. The problems are that there were better options, and also the biggest problem: how likely does that look?

That would be fine.... BUT. i think at 5th overall, a 21 year old should probably excel at something, and be relied on more.