Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. V

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Previous threads

First discussion thread

Second discussion thread

D+2 in Finland

Pt. I

Pt. II

Pt. III: Off to Juo-tica

Pt. IV: Out for remainder of 2018-19

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[Baby Pettersson]

In my opinion this is the most concerning stat about him. Can't even judge the guy if he isn't even playing.
View media item 4757

 

[Jyrki21]

I'd rather have juolevi than nylander or pulju at this point. The other two have played and failed. Juolevi has only played 15 ahl games. I'd give him another full season and a bit to see how things go.

With all due respect, this is kind of insane.

It's like taking an unscratched ticket over one that has already won $1,000 because there are a few $5,000 prizes out there. Except it's in a world where you can also project with some accuracy how much the unscratched is likely to win

 

[TruKnyte]

With all due respect, this is kind of insane.

It's like taking an unscratched ticket over one that has already won $1,000 because there are a few $5,000 prizes out there. Except it's in a world where you can also project with some accuracy how much the unscratched is likely to win

It's basically like half the ticket is already scratched and shows losing numbers.

 

[EXTRAS]

With all due respect, this is kind of insane.

It's like taking an unscratched ticket over one that has already won $1,000 because there are a few $5,000 prizes out there. Except it's in a world where you can also project with some accuracy how much the unscratched is likely to win

Juolevi is a defenseman that has scored at a better pace in the ahl than Alex nylander. And he did it as a rookie, who one can assume was dealing with injuries.

Pulju had 9 points in 46 nhl games last year.

Both nylander and pulju have been given a lot of opportunities and failed. I wouldn't call either a 1000 dollar winning ticket.

I'd call both losing tickets, and say juolevi is a half scratched ticket that is turning up a good offensive, poor defensive player.

If all 3 players turn out as 30 point guys, I'd much rather the one who can do it from the backend, or who can run a powerplay.

 

[TruGr1t]

Juolevi is a defenseman that has scored at a better pace in the ahl than Alex nylander. And he did it as a rookie, who one can assume was dealing with injuries.

Pulju had 9 points in 46 nhl games last year.

Both nylander and pulju have been given a lot of opportunities and failed. I wouldn't call either a 1000 dollar winning ticket.

I'd call both losing tickets, and say juolevi is a half scratched ticket that is turning up a good offensive, poor defensive player.

If all 3 players turn out as 30 point guys, I'd much rather the one who can do it from the backend, or who can run a powerplay.

The point is that Juolevi is tracking very poorly. Is some of that due to injuries? Sure. But he also cannot play defense at the AHL level. That means he's not even remotely NHL ready because he'd get freaking slaughtered worse than Pouliot.

You are totally entitled to hold out hope he's going to miraculously become something other than David Rundblad 2.0, but that doesn't mean it's particularly likely. Do we have any evidence whatsoever he's tracking well outside of the fact he racked up 12 assists in 18 games and was a -12? He hasn't really had a good season since his draft year.

 

[EXTRAS]

The point is that Juolevi is tracking very poorly. Is some of that due to injuries? Sure. But he also cannot play defense at the AHL level. That means he's not even remotely NHL ready because he'd get freaking slaughtered worse than Pouliot.

You are totally entitled to hold out hope he's going to miraculously become something other than David Rundblad 2.0, but that doesn't mean it's particularly likely. Do we have any evidence whatsoever he's tracking well outside of the fact he racked up 12 assists in 18 games and was a -12? He hasn't really had a good season since his draft year.

He has played 18 games in the AHL. That's it. Proclaiming him an atrocious ahl defenseman a little quickly imo.

 

[TruGr1t]

He has played 18 games in the AHL. That's it. Proclaiming him an atrocious ahl defenseman a little quickly imo.

Ask any Utica poster here to talk Juolevi. In fact, ask anyone who watched his games last year. He has serious, and potentially irreparable, defensive deficiencies. If you think he can play any sort of material minutes at the NHL level something has to seriously change in his make up. And it isn't a new thing that happened in Utica last year. The defensive issues have basically been evident since the draft.

 

[krutovsdonut]

a new thread huh. amazing how much ink can be spilled restating opinions on a situation that has been static since december.

 

[M2Beezy]

a new thread huh. amazing how much ink can be spilled restating opinions on a situation that has been static since december.

Yeah no kidding, I wonder how many pages will go thru before theres an update regarding his health or progress or training

 

[TruGr1t]

a new thread huh. amazing how much ink can be spilled restating opinions on a situation that has been static since december.

Yeah no kidding! You'd think it was the offseason for a non-playoff team that just went through exit interviews so everyone is talking broadly about the state of the franchise and a recent top-five pick might matter. Oh wait....

 

[1440]

I cannot restate this strongly enough:
If various other players who have played with or played in similar situations to a player in the past and have produced similar numbers are succeeding in the NHL, then that should be viewed as a positive, not a negative.

This is the basis of comparative stats like NHLe or cohort success.

We wouldn't look at his Liiga numbers and say: "He has produced at a similar rate to Joni Pitkanen, but he isn't Pitkanen therefore he sucks"

Therefore, when one looks at Sergachev, or Mete who produced similar numbers in the same era in the OHL as Juolevi and are playing (well?) in the NHL. The logical conclusion should be "well if they can do it history says Olli will be able to too". This is the definition of cohort success, which is a positive affirmation of Juolevi's value. Drafting a player is a sunk cost, so it is defeatist to whine about his more immediately successful cohorts.

His injuries are a negative in the obvious way that no player wants to be injured and that they could have a lasting effect on his longevity as a player.

That said, they are a positive in that they mask his potential. If OJ can succeed (his 13 points and good zone entry/exit stats 18 AHL games is a small dose of success) when he has not had time to properly train because of injury, or when he is playing through injury, then just imagine how good he will be when he is fully healthy.

Think of EP and the whole weight issue. Many viewed it as a negative, but many now see it as a huge positive that he was tall but underweight.

In both cases we have issues that are not related to skill/intelligence/work ethic or any of the factors that actually dictate whether a player succeeds. These are issues that will likely be overcome.
Yes being injured or underweight is a handicap in the present, but it is more like a golfer's handicap of playing from the back tee when everyone is teeing off 10 yards ahead. As soon as Petey and Olli step forward onto that closer tee, the game will be that much easier for them and they will surpass those who have not benefited from the experience of playing with a handicap.

 

[xtra]

Except you are holding for outside variables in your numbers aka team mates ( the knights big 3 - Dvorak; tkachuk; marner - finales big 3 - laine; aho; puju) that inflates juloevis numbers

 

[MikeK]

This was such a bad pick. Obviously hind sight is always 20/20 but in no way shape or form should we have taken this player at that position when you look at who was available. I'd love to be proven wrong but I have serious doubts this player ever has an NHL career.

 

[1440]

Except you are holding for outside variables in your numbers aka team mates ( the knights big 3 - Dvorak; tkachuk; marner - finales big 3 - laine; aho; puju) that inflates juloevis numbers

Pretty safe to say that Mete's numbers were inflated by that Knights team, and he is doing fine without them in Montreal/Laval.

I get your point, but you probably overstate the uni-directional nature of its effects.
Maybe Juolevi's numbers were inflated playing the PP with snipers like Dvorak and Laine, or maybe he is very good at distributing from the point on the PP.
Similarly, maybe Juolevi's numbers were inflated by playing on the PP with a red-hot Reid Boucher at the start of the year in Utica, or maybe Boucher's goal scoring fell off dramatically without Olli feeding him one-timers.

We should not be necessarily be concerned that a player is only good as a complimentary piece to elite players when the Canucks already have shooters just as good at NHL level as Dvorak, Laine and Boucher were at their levels in Boeser and Pettersson.

 

[Fire Benning]

His defensive zone play will likely hold him back from being more than a 3rd pairing defenseman. He produced at a similar rate at even strength this year to what Jordan Subban produced two years ago.

 

[xtra]

Pretty safe to say that Mete's numbers were inflated by that Knights team, and he is doing fine without them in Montreal/Laval.

I get your point, but you probably overstate the uni-directional nature of its effects.
Maybe Juolevi's numbers were inflated playing the PP with snipers like Dvorak and Laine, or maybe he is very good at distributing from the point on the PP.
Similarly, maybe Juolevi's numbers were inflated by playing on the PP with a red-hot Reid Boucher at the start of the year in Utica, or maybe Boucher's goal scoring fell off dramatically without Olli feeding him one-timers.

We should not be necessarily be concerned that a player is only good as a complimentary piece to elite players when the Canucks already have shooters just as good at NHL level as Dvorak, Laine and Boucher were at their levels in Boeser and Pettersson.

You completely missed my point; you can say because a player put up 100 points in junior and is successful at the nhl level another player putting up those same points in junior will be successful as well. There is no correlation at all

 

[Donuts]

Everyone wanted tkachuk at the draft. "Canucks select from london knights"...and then benning screwed up the pick.

But at least give juolevi a chance to play in nhl before putting him with the likes of nylander and pulju.

Or just trade him with #10oa+ to move up in the draft to grab byram.

 

[F A N]

His defensive zone play will likely hold him back from being more than a 3rd pairing defenseman. He produced at a similar rate at even strength this year to what Jordan Subban produced two years ago.

He was used as the shutdown guy by Dale Hunter. His gap control, skating, and ability to win puck battles can improve. His strength is suppose to be his hockey IQ and ability to transition the puck up ice. He also has a 6'3" frame.

 

[TruGr1t]

He was used as the shutdown guy by Dale Hunter. His gap control, skating, and ability to win puck battles can improve. His strength is suppose to be his hockey IQ and ability to transition the puck up ice. He also has a 6'3" frame.

He also can't play defense in the AHL ... so ... I mean come on, meow. We all know all the stuff you listed. A vast majority of which isn't transitioning well at all to pro hockey.

We can start a list of all the great junior defenseman that busted hard in the NHL, if you like.

 

[Hit the post]

We can start a list of all the great junior defenseman that busted hard in the NHL, if you like.

Still, let’s see how he looks in a Canuck uniform first. Agree though that the clock is ticking on him (mainly because other prospects will be passing him on the depth chart if he can’t stay healthy AND improve.

 

[Fire Benning]

He was used as the shutdown guy by Dale Hunter. His gap control, skating, and ability to win puck battles can improve. His strength is suppose to be his hockey IQ and ability to transition the puck up ice. He also has a 6'3" frame.

And what? Major junior players are immune from failing once they move up to the pros?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

He also can't play defense in the AHL ... so ... I mean come on, meow. We all know all the stuff you listed. A vast majority of which isn't transitioning well at all to pro hockey.

We can start a list of all the great junior defenseman that busted hard in the NHL, if you like.

i'll start. derrick pouliot, erik gudbranson, andrey pedan, luca sbisa, adam clendening, cam barker, ryan parent, lukas krajicek, steve mccarthy, nolan baumgartner, drake berehowsky, scott lachance, greg hawgood, chris joseph, adrian plavsic, and jim benning.

 

[Zombotron]

Jim Benning was supposed to be Toronto's version of Paul Coffey. He had 139 points in his draft season.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

i'll start. derrick pouliot, erik gudbranson, andrey pedan, luca sbisa, adam clendening, cam barker, ryan parent, lukas krajicek, steve mccarthy, nolan baumgartner, drake berehowsky, scott lachance, greg hawgood, chris joseph, adrian plavsic, and jim benning.

Saw a stat where Jim Benning had 5th highest score 18 year old season defense scoring season in nhl history. That did not seem right Dahlen just moved Jim down.