Salary Cap: Oliver Ekman-Larsson

[vancityluongo]

The most optimistic comparison I can possibly think of for OEL bouncing back is funnily enough, Alex Edler post-Tortorella season.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

The problem isn't Vancouver being a hockey mad market, its the media culture here that seems to constantly shit on Canucks. Even when Canucks were at the apex of their success in 2011, the media was still going after Canucks that they "weren't winning the right way".

Take a look around the league for what OEL offers as a defenceman, they're all getting 7.5 million+, that's the market value for these defenceman, yet, there is this unrealstic expectation that you can acquire a top pairing defenceman for below 5 million.

So true, Bieksa said as much months back - team would be on a long winning streak & media are pushing concern about Bernier not scoring in 8 games.

Theres good media members in this market, but there is a reason so many on twitter are defensive today. It's becoming more transparent with social media & people around the league take notice of how negative/toxic this market can be.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

So true, Bieksa said as much months back - team would be on a long winning streak & media are pushing concern about Bernier not scoring in 8 games.

Theres good media members in this market, but there is a reason so many on twitter are defensive today. It's becoming more transparent with social media & people around the league take notice of how negative/toxic this market can be.

Is this really something that's exclusive to Vancouver?

Any market with an engaged audience is going to get the same level of scrutiny. Be it American or Canadian.

Apathetic reporting, like I would imagine is the case in Arizona (I don't know, I don't follow their newsbeat/reporters) does no one any good.

It's also a really savvy way of trying to control the narrative by framing any valid criticism or analysis as being "negative."

Stating that OEL has struggled, has injury concerns, etc. isn't being "negative." It's stating information.

Being critical of chasing short term success at the expense of long term success is a criticism and a valid talking point. It's not "being toxic."

 

[Nazzlind]

Is this really something that's exclusive to Vancouver?

Any market with an engaged audience is going to get the same level of scrutiny. Be it American or Canadian.

Apathetic reporting, like I would imagine is the case in Arizona (I don't know, I don't follow their newsbeat/reporters) does no one any good.

It's also a really savvy way of trying to control the narrative by framing any valid criticism or analysis as being "negative."

Stating that OEL has struggled, has injury concerns, etc. isn't being "negative." It's stating information.

Being critical of chasing short term success at the expense of long term success is a criticism and a valid talking point. It's not "being toxic."

wouldn't it do the players good?

 

[MarkMM]

The problem isn't Vancouver being a hockey mad market, its the media culture here that seems to constantly shit on Canucks. Even when Canucks were at the apex of their success in 2011, the media was still going after Canucks that they "weren't winning the right way".

Take a look around the league for what OEL offers as a defenceman, they're all getting 7.5 million+, that's the market value for these defenceman, yet, there is this unrealstic expectation that you can acquire a top pairing defenceman for below 5 million.

There's the inaccuracy...yes, top pairing defencemen get more than $5 million, the problem is that we're NOT getting a top-pairing defenceman, we're getting OEL and paying $7.5M.

Into his 30's after multiple years of already declining.

And paying multiple draft picks for the honour of eating his gross overpayment.

(Garland is arguably fair value at 9th OA, so that leaves the other picks for OEL, given that we're already doing them a favour by taking multiple years of a cap dump for them to take ONE year of our Benning Blunders.)

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

wouldn't it do the players good?

I would argue that having some degree of accountability can be useful. Yeah, coaches give feedback and will let their players know when there's problems, but having an outsider's perspective can also be useful.

It's not an on-ice example, but Tony Gallagher's reporting on Pavel Bure's situation and how he was getting completely dicked by the Canucks management is a perfect example of how engaged reporting can be useful. Some might classify Gallagher's reporting as being 'toxic' or 'negative', but he gave a player a voice and an opportunity to speak out. If it was someone else just reporting 'Bure and Canucks reach impasse in contract talks' or were just parroting press releases from the Canucks, it creates an unfair atmosphere.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Is this really something that's exclusive to Vancouver?

Any market with an engaged audience is going to get the same level of scrutiny. Be it American or Canadian.

Apathetic reporting, like I would imagine is the case in Arizona (I don't know, I don't follow their newsbeat/reporters) does no one any good.

It's also a really savvy way of trying to control the narrative by framing any valid criticism or analysis as being "negative."

Stating that OEL has struggled, has injury concerns, etc. isn't being "negative." It's stating information.

Being critical of chasing short term success at the expense of long term success is a criticism and a valid talking point. It's not "being toxic."

That's all fine, but it's well beyond that. It's negative messaging with everything, in everyway possible, all the time. Always trying point out the negative angles, or even qualify positive things with a downside. And I think it's worse here than other tough markets.



It's just excessive.

I don't think it's a coincidence people around the league have taken notice of things like Canucks twitter.

 

[Nucker101]

That's all fine, but it's well beyond that. It's negative messaging with everything, in everyway possible, all the time. Always trying point out the negative angles, or even qualify positive things with a downside. And I think it's worse here than other tough markets.



It's just excessive.

I don't think it's a coincidence people around the league have taken notice of things like Canucks twitter.

Give Habs fans or Leafs fans Benning for 7 years and see how positive they’d be. Canucks Twitter was no worse than any other large fanbase before Benning arrived.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Give Habs fans or Leafs fans Benning for 7 years and see how positive they’d be. Canucks Twitter was no worse than any other large fanbase before Benning arrived.

Not to derail the thread..but the excessive fan hate has been going on in Vancouver years before Benning

Brian Burke alluded to it a few years ago.
"I lived in Vancouver for 11 years - I was assistant GM for 5 years, then GM for 6 years. The panic is a very small number... the vast majority of fans in Vancouver are fantastic and loyal and knowledgable. There is this lunatic fringe that panics hysterically at the first sign of adversity.”

 

[Nucker101]

Not to derail the thread..but the excessive fan hate has been going on in Vancouver years before Benning

Brian Burke alluded to it a few years ago.

I’m too young to comment on how things were here under Burke so I’ll take his/your word for it but it seemed perfectly fine under Gillis

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

That's all fine, but it's well beyond that. It's negative messaging with everything, in everyway possible, all the time. Always trying point out the negative angles, or even qualify positive things with a downside. And I think it's worse here than other tough markets.



It's just excessive.

I don't think it's a coincidence people around the league have taken notice of things like Canucks twitter.

This is just laughable. You're talking about the media that includes shill homers like Imac?

Here's the thing about the canucks: they're one of the worst professional sports franchises ever. In any sport. They have the second worst all-time winning percentage in the NHL. They have zero stanley cups and they're nowhere close. The organization has collapsed into an embarrassing mess after reaching legit contender status for the first time ever. There's no way to cover the Canucks honestly without appearing "negative" to people who aren't paying attention or don't realize how bad this team is and has been for 50 years.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I’m too young to comment on how things were here under Burke so I’ll take his/your word for it but it seemed perfectly fine under Gillis

Brian Burke tried to get a journalist fired because he didn't like what he was writing about.

The sports editor ran the angry letter Burkie wrote on the front page.

A lot of this perception of 'negativity' is manufactured by ownership/management in the Canucks (who have a very good reason for trying to downgrade criticism as unfounded.)

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

That's all fine, but it's well beyond that. It's negative messaging with everything, in everyway possible, all the time. Always trying point out the negative angles, or even qualify positive things with a downside. And I think it's worse here than other tough markets.



It's just excessive.

I don't think it's a coincidence people around the league have taken notice of things like Canucks twitter.

I mean,

When was the last time a Vancouver writer wrote a completely fabricated story about a player, to the point that said player mocked him years later?

Of course a writer out east isn't going to think that his shit doesn't stink, lol. Do you really think non-Francophone players relish the thought of playing in Montreal, to give another example? Or how much shit PK Subban got? Or how much shit Carey Price currently gets?

EDIT: Also, sneaky, sneaky, trying to conflate fan opinions on Twitter with the media (which is what you were originally talking about.) The media hasn't really had anyone really going after management/the organization since Botchford passed and Gallagher retired.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

He will strengthen the first defense pairing with Schmidt but the real use might be having Quinn and Myers as the second defense pairing making it likely Quinn's +/- will be better this year as well as Myers. Awfully talented blueline this year...Rathbone and possibly Woo.

And deep at forward. Trade is possibly in the works for a RD third pairing guy.

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser
Garland - Horvat - Höglander
Pearson - Motte - Podkolzin
Higmore - Dickinson - Hawryluk
MacEwen

This is so out to lunch… did we even qualify Hawryluk.

Who tf is Higmore. If Motte is your third line center, you’re not making the playoffs; you are not “deep at forward”.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

This is just laughable. You're talking about the media that includes shill homers like Imac?

Here's the thing about the canucks: they're one of the worst professional sports franchises ever. In any sport. They have the second worst all-time winning percentage in the NHL. They have zero stanley cups and they're nowhere close. The organization has collapsed into an embarrassing mess after reaching legit contender status for the first time ever. There's no way to cover the Canucks honestly without appearing "negative" to people who aren't paying attention or don't realize how bad this team is and has been for 50 years.

So then why was it bad when the team was really good?

Bieksa said it himself, team would be on a winning streak with many things going right and the media would be fixated on a bottom 6 FWD not having scored in a handful of games.

President trophy winning team wasnt 'winning right'.

The time without a cup does have an effect, but the same negative orientation has existed in the past when the team has been good.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I mean,

When was the last time a Vancouver writer wrote a completely fabricated story about a player, to the point that said player mocked him years later?

Of course a writer out east isn't going to think that his shit doesn't stink, lol. Do you really think non-Francophone players relish the thought of playing in Montreal, to give another example? Or how much shit PK Subban got? Or how much shit Carey Price currently gets?

EDIT: Also, sneaky, sneaky, trying to conflate fan opinions on Twitter with the media (which is what you were originally talking about.) The media hasn't really had anyone really going after management/the organization since Botchford passed and Gallagher retired.

Theres a reason Montreal & Vancouver are considered the toughest markets. They are the best competition.

And you must not listen to the Sekeres & Price show, or follow Daniel Wagner on twitter.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Theres a reason Montreal & Vancouver are considered the toughest markets. They are the best competition.

And you must not listen to the Sekeres & Price show, or follow Daniel Wagner on twitter.

I live out of market, so I don't catch a lot of radio stuff. But I have lived in various Canadian cities that have NHL teams over the years and have gotten to know a wide range of hockey journalists working the local beat. (EDIT: Their material, not knowing them personally.)

But I regularly read the Province and see what media types are talking about through Twitter and the such.

Wagner tends to be pretty even keeled when talking about the Canucks, although he is critical. I don't see him doing anything remotely close to what Steve Simmons did/does. Or Damien Cox.

Again, analysis/criticism != toxicity/negativity.

 

[wreckless]

I can't stand our media.

Back in 2011 I would lose my mind with the negativity from the media on a forward thinking, class A franchise. We'd be on an 11 game winning streak and Price would come on post game in a somber tone dumping on the team.

But don't forget, it wasn't just the media being 'toxic' back then, YOU CASUALS were just as toxic if not more. You all hated Luongo the flopper. You all hated Gillis. We were winning President trophies and going to cup finals and you hated multiple aspect of the team.

I used to joke that the casuals would be happier when we were terrible then when we were good..

So now, ironically, when we are a complete joke, have the worst GM in pro sports, now you all are angry at the negativity?

What an absolute joke.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I can't stand our media.

Back in 2011 I would lose my mind with the negativity from the media on a forward thinking, class A franchise.

But don't forget, it wasn't just the media being 'toxic' back then, YOU CASUALS were just as toxic if not more. You all hated Luongo the flopper. You all hated Gillis. We were winning President trophies and going to cup finals and you hated multiple aspect of the team.

I used to joke that the casuals would be happier when we were terrible then when we were good..

So now, ironically, when we are a complete joke, have the worst GM in pro sports, now you all are angry at the negativity?

What an absolute joke.

I was on cloud 9 during the Gillis years. Very drunk during the Cup run. Super pumped about the entire team. Before that, I was defending bringing in Brian Smolinski (lol) and Nonis 'standing pat' and not sacrificing the future. Before that, I had an irrational hatred of Dan Cloutier.

There were some never satisfied fans who would give you Pause. But I'd argue the bulk of fans were happy with the overall team. I was firmly convinced that the Canucks were absolutely, 100%, win a Stanley Cup during Luongo's tenure.

Not everyone fits this characterization, although I wasn't active on here during the 'salad days.'

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I live out of market, so I don't catch a lot of radio stuff. But I have lived in various Canadian cities that have NHL teams over the years and have gotten to know a wide range of hockey journalists working the local beat. (EDIT: Their material, not knowing them personally.)

But I regularly read the Province and see what media types are talking about through Twitter and the such.

Wagner tends to be pretty even keeled when talking about the Canucks, although he is critical. I don't see him doing anything remotely close to what Steve Simmons did/does. Or Damien Cox.

Again, analysis/criticism != toxicity/negativity.

Steve Simmons is in a category of his own. We can definitely agree on that one.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Steve Simmons is in a category of his own. We can definitely agree on that one.

Yeah. Like, the worst stories I can think of originating from Vancouver media in terms of 'controversy' was either the shirtless Patrick Kane limo photos or the David Booth hunting photos. And I don't think the latter was something that originated by the media, either.

Maybe the focus on Luongo's wife's pregnancy? That seemed to verge a little too personal and inappropriate from what I can remember.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Jim Benning has got one of the easiest rides of any GM in Canucks history. He's made the playoffs twice in seven years, and his job is as secure as it's ever been. Anyone who thinks Vancouver hockey media is rough has either never traveled or looked at any other pro sports team's media.

NHL hockey players do not age like fine wine. If their play declines for multiple years, it is much more likely than not that decline continues, especially after they hit 30. Especially if they've had major surgery.

OEL has shown declining ability for years. He's had knee surgery. He just hit 30.

It is much more likely than not that OEL continues to decline. Betting on him to regain his form from years ago is a very bad gamble.

Is it negative to say that? Is it toxic?

 

[tantalum]

‘Yotes took on a cap dump today in Stralman (1 year left at 5.5). They sent Florida a 2023 7th round pick and received Stralman, 20 year old former 2nd round pick D-man (Kolyachonok), and a 2024 second round pick.

Canucks essentially paid for OEL…a player with a bad contract for over half a decade more and would only waive his clause for two teams.

 

[Huggy]

That's all fine, but it's well beyond that. It's negative messaging with everything, in everyway possible, all the time. Always trying point out the negative angles, or even qualify positive things with a downside. And I think it's worse here than other tough markets.



It's just excessive.

I don't think it's a coincidence people around the league have taken notice of things like Canucks twitter.

The thing that is brutal for me is the excuses when good things do happen.

Game 7 vs Vegas

"We only got there because of Markstrom"

Demko played game 5 and 6

"Waa waa wee wah"


Then this year.

Our whole team got covid.

"every team dealt with covid"

No we literally had to cancel our schedule for 3 weeks cuz the whole team got covid

"waa waa wee wah"

 

[krutovsdonut]

‘Yotes took on a cap dump today in Stralman (1 year left at 5.5). They sent Florida a 2023 7th round pick and received Stralman, 20 year old former 2nd round pick D-man (Kolyachonok), and a 2024 second round pick.

Canucks essentially paid for OEL…a player with a bad contract for over half a decade more and would only waive his clause for two teams.

this continues to establish the high market value of taking on cap dumps. florida paid a 2nd and a signed ahl prospect to get az to take on stralman's $5.5m cap hit, and stralman is still a roster player.

the $12 million in cap dumps we gave in the oel trade loom large.

also, it is clearly armstrong playing around with 7th rounders. one in this trade. one in the ladd trade and one in the oel trade.