Post-Game Talk: Oilers def. Canucks - 4-3 (Horvat, Myers, Pettersson)

[DL44]

Start the game with a gift, a lucky break... game lost on a gross lucky pinball the other way.

In the middle ... Such a great display of team D vs the two most dominating players in the league... gave next to nothing.. for most of the game.
Late period trickler thru Demko to plant the seed of doubt... which blossomed nicely in the 3rd.
The PPG to tie was an absolute beauty.... I look forward to Horvat learning from that and sending a few of his potential one timers from Boeser over to Pettersson to attempt the same thing. Next game. If not, fire a coach.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

People are bending themselves into pretzels trying to figure 'what's wrong with the Vancouver Canucjks?' The short answer is 'nothing'. They simply weren't very good to be begin with.

Last year they survived and became a playoff team by quirk of the COVID schedule and some all-world goaltending from Markstrom. This year they're getting 'average' goaltending and they're in a division that is exposing their blueline and lack of overall team speed night after night.

I have no idea if coaching is part of it. All I know, there are teams out there with a lot less talent than even the Canucks have who play a lot better defensively.

As for the rest, seven years into the Benning tenure, and this team has had the worst regular season of any team in hockey over that stretch. And they're capped out with a string of truly backbreaking contracts.

There's really only guy who can do anything about this mess--the owner. Until he steps up and takes charge, I'm not really getting too worked up anymore about the wins and losses.

The thing is..If the owner fires the coach and GM at this point, it will be people from within the organization (or alumni) replacing them (just like in Montreal today)..So it could possibly be Newell Brown as coach, and John Weisbrod, or Chris Gear as GM.(until they can clean house at the end of the season)..these folks would be running the TDL, and draft.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Two games that followed the same pattern of good play at the start of the game, early leads..and the inevitable implosion at the end.

Makes you wonder whats going on in the players heads right now?..Its a mentally fragile team..The other teams in the division must be getting the book on the Canucks..Dont worry about the score, keep pushing , and they will crack.

I could understand , if the team didnt have talent, but it does..Or they didnt like the coach, but they do..Or if it was a divided dressing room, but from what we know, they are a very tight bunch.

Could also be fatigue. They start off strong and then slowly fade. The condensed schedule and over reliance of certain players is probably starting to show. The 1st PP unit has been playing for like 80% of the 2 min PP time lately. And then of course a lot of lazy gaffes by players like Miller and Myers lately.

 

[valkynax]

This was such a Canucks game.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Honestly, this is the least invested I've ever felt in regards to Canucks hockey since the 2007-2008 season. And it was because I lived on the East coast of the US when that happened so it was just hard to catch games in general.

Just a general feeling of being defeated. So much complacency and lack of expectations to do anything. This will make 6 of 8 years drafting in the top 10 and ownership/good chunk of the fanbase thinks Benning's doing a good job because "hE dRaFteD pETTerSsoN aNd HuGHes." Like, this team had many GMs get s**tcanned for less and you would hope with all those picks you would have something to show for on the roster.

Just tired of this team culture over the years of having this perpetual inferiority complex where you just build the Maginot Line by stuffing the roster full of "2-way players" so you don't get murdered as badly by Gretzky and company or any other modern equivalent.

Don't even have an outlet to express anger any more, it's just a general feeling of being resigned to "yep, this is how it is."

Can't say I don't feel the same way. Hell, I've barely watched any of the last handful of games because, well, that's the point? They play like garbage and loss. Granted, the Winnipeg games were blackouted here (still their blackouts are stupid) but still. It's just frustrating because we know nothing will be done. I want to believe Aquilini will finally get his head out of his ass and clean house this off season but who knows? Benning has been a complete disaster, capped off by, arguably, the worst off season of any GM in a decade. Even the players themselves look to be absolutely done with him.

The only real positive right now is it looks like the upcoming draft is defensemen heavy.

 

[krutovsdonut]

And as many if not more implications within Benning's sphere of influence.

the team is losing in a bad way. benning is fully accountable for the way the team is losing as well as his losses and it is fatal to his position as a gm.

i have said for weeks now that benning is gone. let me elaborate.

unless aquaman made all the offseason decisions that have turned out badly himself and has a guilty conscience, or unless aquaman cannot find anyone else, benning is toast. it is just a question of whether benning stays for the entire season, which depends on whether a replacement exists willing to step in immediately, which is a random covid influenced variable.

there, are we done with benning in the pgt? can we move on to discussing what is happening on the ice and actually be on topic?

i am interested in discussing the state of the team as it impacts on a future beyond benning. i don't find endless whining about benning to be very useful, which is why i posted an observation in a pgt instead of the management thread.

my observation is that the fact the team cannot lose with dignity, and that fact the team is obviously rattled on the ice, clearly falls on the coaching staff. they have not adjusted to their not very good reality. they are letting the kids try and score themselves out of their mistakes night after night. we are seeing long shifts and all the other signs of a coach who has lost the thread.

that just does not require "but benning" to discuss. you guys are obsessively off topic.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Could also be fatigue. They start off strong and then slowly fade. The condensed schedule and over reliance of certain players is probably starting to show. The 1st PP unit has been playing for like 80% of the 2 min PP time lately. And then of course a lot of lazy gaffes by players like Miller and Myers lately.

I wouldnt put fatigue as a reason..They're at home, and have a day off in between games..Earlier this season, they had some ridiculous scheduling, and you could point to some games, but not lately.

 

[I am toxic]

the team is losing in a bad way. benning is fully accountable for the way the team is losing as well as his losses and it is fatal to his position as a gm.

i have said for weeks now that benning is gone. let me elaborate.

unless aquaman made all the offseason decisions that have turned out badly himself and has a guilty conscience, or unless aquaman cannot find anyone else, benning is toast. it is just a question of whether benning stays for the entire season, which depends on whether a replacement exists willing to step in immediately, which is a random covid influenced variable.

there, are we done with benning in the pgt? can we move on to discussing what is happening on the ice and actually be on topic?

i am interested in discussing the state of the team as it impacts on a future beyond benning. i don't find endless whining about benning to be very useful, which is why i posted an observation in a pgt instead of the management thread.

my observation is that the fact the team cannot lose with dignity, and that fact the team is obviously rattled on the ice, clearly falls on the coaching staff. they have not adjusted to their not very good reality. they are letting the kids try and score themselves out of their mistakes night after night. we are seeing long shifts and all the other signs of a coach who has lost the thread.

that just does not require "but benning" to discuss. you guys are obsessively off topic.

No.

You don't get to decide when there has been sufficient criticism of any aspect of the team.

But of course it goes without saying that we can discuss what is happening on the ice, as well as all the things that go into the on-ice product.

 

[krutovsdonut]

A new GM would likely hire a new coach - kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
I don't like Green much either, but firing him isn't going to resolve the team's issues. Especially long-term.

it's been obvious that will happen since early in the season barring a turn around we are still waiting for. benning is toast, and so is his coach without a contract unless things improve. i think it would already have happened with benning but for covid and aquaman's reputation limiting his options.

the issue we should be concerned about is what the current situation is doing to the development of our young players. that is a huge concern. the level of demoralizing rot you are seeing on the ice leads to room issues and trade requests. an entire season of this level of shit is going to have implications.

now green wants another job in the nhl, so he has an incentive to go out strong here, but we are not seeing it. it looks like the core is calling the shots, which is very bad.

what we should be paying attention to as a fan base is how the players we want to be with us going forward are handling this adversity.

 

[I am toxic]

See this is where I think you are wrong slightly we only really have top end talent in say 5 players and that’s only on the offensive side of the puck.

we have 1 player that is defensively competent for their role (Schmidt) and that might be a stretch right now. Edler is played too much, Hughes is not ready to be the defensive player we need and may never be; myers is playing in a role above his abilities.

is there a singular forward or forward line you would put out there to shutdown the other teams top line?

we (and not just you) always talk about talent in terms of offense but we forget it takes talent to be a defensive player (Vlasic/Tanev/later years Scott stevens etc)

this team has a major lack of talent(defensively) which was covered up by markstrom last year

Fully agree with what you say, just want to point out that Petey is ridiculously talented defensively as well, it's just that his size and offensive talent and our needs (and crap ton of supposedly defensive bottom sixers) means he has to (and of course should be) slotted into an offensive role.

 

[NuxFan09]

Some of you need a break, that's all I can say. Same people on here day after day saying the same talking points. When some people want to have a level headed discussion they start mashing their keyboards.

Bah, just not worth it.

 

[Dab]

Some of you need a break, that's all I can say. Same people on here day after day saying the same talking points. When some people want to have a level headed discussion they start mashing their keyboards.

Bah, just not worth it.

Tough to have level headed discussions about a massive tire fire that’s been burning for 7 years.

 

[Hodgy]

I like that @krutovsdonut has hilariously switched positions - seemingly overnight - from virtually always defending Benning on here for years and years, to effectively stating that criticism of Benning is unnecessary as it’s a foregone conclusion that he will be fired. A masterful attempt to totally ignore years and years of an extremely entrenched and wrong position.

 

[NuxFan09]

Tough to have level headed discussions about a massive tire fire that’s been burning for 7 years.

Not really.

 

[krutovsdonut]

No.

You don't get to decide when there has been sufficient criticism of any aspect of the team.

But of course it goes without saying that we can discuss what is happening on the ice, as well as all the things that go into the on-ice product.

well actually i am entitled to talk in a non management thread about non management issues without being dragged off topic into a discussion about management that is not only off topic but really stupid and reductionist. "it's all benning's fault" is a stupid argument that discourages actual discussion and adds nothing.

we are discussing what happened on the ice. you have a thread to go make that same tired benning argument over and over. if you don't want to talk about the players and coaching in a pgt, maybe you should do that.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I like that @krutovsdonut has hilariously switched positions - seemingly overnight - from virtually always defending Benning on here for years and years, to effectively stating that criticism of Benning is unnecessary as it’s a foregone conclusion that he will be fired. A masterful attempt to totally ignore years and years of an extremely entrenched and wrong position.

this is just a lie and a tired one at that. it's about the fifth time now your arguments have called me out like some annoying drunk in a bar trying to pick a fight. your arguments keep trying to turn me into a straw man caricature of a benning defender. i am sorry that your arguments are like those of a cave man needing a scapegoat and are prepared to distort the truth to get one, but i am not your huckleberry.

 

[Hodgy]

this is just a lie and a tired one at that. it's about the fifth time now you have called me out like some annoying drunk in a bar trying to pick a fight. you keep trying to turn me into a straw man caricature of a benning defender. i am sorry that you are wired like a cave man and need a scapegoat and are prepared to distort the truth to get one, but i am not your huckleberry.

It’s fine if you want to believe you didn’t defend Benning on here for years. It’s all a matter of public record. I never stated that you always defended him as I’m sure there have been times when you didn’t, I stated that you virtually always did. Perhaps that’s an overstatement, but frankly, it’s pretty clear to anyone that has been posting on here which side of the ledger you are generally on.

 

[krutovsdonut]

It’s fine if you want to believe you didn’t defend Benning on here for years. It’s all a matter of public record. I never stated that you always defended him as I’m sure there have been times when you didn’t, I stated that you virtually always did. Perhaps that’s an overstatement, but frankly, it’s pretty clear to anyone that has been posting on here which side of the ledger you are generally on.

perhaps.

i have defended benning at times and criticized him other times. more often than not what you think is me defending him is just me refusing to drink management thread bad faith tinfoil hat conspiracy theory inferences about him or just getting annoyed that every discussion gets hijacked into benning bashing.

like this discussion.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

I don’t think firing a gm midseason really makes a difference. Wait until the off-season

 

[m9]

I don’t think firing a gm midseason really makes a difference. Wait until the off-season

It doesn't make a different in terms of on-ice results this season, but there will likely be some benefits in terms of selling assets at the deadline.

A better question is this - what difference does keeping this GM do, aside from saving the owner some money?

 

[Royal Canuck]

I don’t think firing a gm midseason really makes a difference. Wait until the off-season

It's tricky, if Benning knows he's out at the end of the year, and you have an expansion draft & an extremely important trade deadline, that's a scary situation if you're the Canucks.

If you're going to can him, can him now and find a guy who has a plan past this year, not someone who's just buying time.

 

[geebaan]

The lack of cap flexibility is Bennings fault, nobody arguing that..I dont agree that they've been replaced with 'nothing' though.

who did they replace them with, that have lived up to even half of what they brought. I’ll wait.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

It's tricky, if Benning knows he's out at the end of the year, and you have an expansion draft & an extremely important trade deadline, that's a scary situation if you're the Canucks.

If you're going to can him, can him now and find a guy who has a plan past this year, not someone who's just buying time.

There lies the problem..Who do you want running the TDL, ED, and draft ?..Whoever it is, there's huge implications on the line.

 

[m9]

Specifically on last night's game, though I'm sure it's all been said.

-I've been on Travis Green's side up until this last week or so, but I'm out now. He hasn't been given a good roster but his usage just screams "I give up". Rolling lines with no regard for game situation and just keeping the same lineup intact regardless of results.

*Side note: one of the things that was really glossed over here (and people were mocked for bringing it up) was him giving Holtby the start in the first game of the season. How and why would you do that after what Demko did at the end of last season? Why would you not start the new "era" with the future? It's obvious now how fragile this team was early in the season and was obviously pissed about losing some key players. Why would you not start with the guy who kept the previous season alive? Why do you feel obligated to start some free agent veteran with no ties to the team? I think Green is a smart guy and will inevitably learn from his mistakes in a new situation. But it's not happening here and it's time to go. I don't know what the reasoning was for not giving him an extension this last off-season and who made that call, but it was the right call.

-My one positive from the game is that I really like how EP is playing right now. It's nice when he's ripping cannons but digging for these chances in front of the net is a sure way to get out of goal-scoring slumps and it's great to see.

-Demko has to stop that 1st goal. I know people are protecting the goaltenders here for whatever reason this year and will point to some stats that say they've been average but it doesn't tell the story. They are getting below-average goaltending and some of the gaffes have been very untimely. This game is probably an easy Canucks win if he saves that goal. No fault of his on the other 3 goals, though.

-Hilariously bad defending on the 2nd goal with 3 guys basically "covering" one guy down low. Are any of the media asking these players or coaches about these specific plays? If so, I haven't seen it. Just awful, amateur level stuff.

-When Motte or Bailey is back, the corresponding move needs to be Roussel getting waived. He was very good his first season here and that version of Roussel is a legit top-nine player. This version that we've gotten since the injury isn't an NHL player. If you are too scared as a coach to scratch a veteran like Roussel, he at least needs to be buried on the Beagle.

-The apathy is real. Aquilini took the heat off Benning/Green with his tweets, but he also took the care out of many fans.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

who did they replace them with, that have lived up to even half of what they brought. I’ll wait.

Toffoli wasnt replaced, although we were on of the highest scoring teams in the Western Conference without him...and he wasnt that much of a factor in the playoffs.
Markstrom walked because of Demko and the ED..Goaltending has been inconsistent..but its not 'nothing'
Hoglander replaced Leivo..Schmidt replaced Tanev..Juolevi replaced Fantenburg, and is currently looking pretty solid lately partnered with Myers.