Speculation: Offseason Thread XVIII - Soon September & a new NYR member?

[Idlerlee]

Zuccarello is 29 years old. He is as good as he will ever be. He can maintain this level for another year but the production drops at the other side of 30. The Rangers need younger impact players. If Zuccarello is as good as everyone here says,the Rangers should get a solid return. There is no trade restriction in place. The Rangers can trade him anywhere.The money isn't crazy like Nash who is owed $16.2M in actual money and the Rangers hands are tied to 12 teams for a Nash trade. Gorton has added three younger impact players in Buchnevich,Zibanejad and Vesey. He wants to get younger. He knows the Rangers have a lot of work to do. I would not pigeon hole myself into focusing on just right handed shooting D. A right handed shooting winger. Nashville acquired Forsberg from the Caps for Erat. The trade is not happening today or next week or next month. Another winger with a higher ceiling than some of the Rangers wingers.

The Rangers had a first round grade on Gropp. Gordie Clark said Gropp is just as good as anyone taken in the 2nd half of the first round in 2015. Time will tell. Clark and his staff have been more right than wrong. If Gropp does become a regular NHL top 6-9 left winger with size,speed and a great shot,is it still a horrible trade? Time will tell.



http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2016/..._medium=twitter#sthash.wNzT6LAv.QEkHpBRp.dpbs

Acquire as many young players as possible and worry about where they play later. It creates more depth. Opens up other trade possibilities.

For the record, I enjoy your posts and I believe you do know a lot more about hockey than I do. But I have to disagree with this statement vehemently.

There is no set scale to when production drops. Zucc just posted a career season and we have no indication that he has reached his ceiling.

From my understanding, there is no good trade to be made here that the team needs, ie. the D. Shattenkirk is obviously the worst possible trade for this team so hopefully that is not happening, and all other teams have no good reason to trade their great prospects for Zucc.

There's this intense narrative on these forums this summer that players whom are closing in on 30 are on the cusps of being outdated relics on problem contracts, and we should all try to get as young as entirely possible.

Buch and Vesey havent even had a NHL game to show for, I wouldnt be so quick to bank on them being extremely productive just yet.

In a sport where good players are productive well into the north of their 30's, its really strange to suddenly see people stress out about 28-30 year olds and the need to move them for people who wont hit their prime until 25-26. So essentially what everyone wants is 2 years of prime for everyone then trade them away for another youngsters, because asset management.

 

[I Eat Crow]

While I don't disagree with RB's point that he's trying to make by trying to maximize Zuccarello's value, production and durability layer on in careers is so subjective. Eric Staal is 31 and only two and a half years older than Zuccarello. However, Staal has played an 80 game schedule since he was 15-16 years old. A lot of miles on his tires. It's no shock to me that he's declined. He's played 15 years of long, hard hockey. His career has already been longer than the stars of old.

Zuccarello, on the other hand, has played in the SEL, the AHL, and didn't stick full time in the NHL until he was 25 years old. There are a lot less miles on him than on a player like Staal, for example. I'm much less concerned about Zuccarello declining than a player the same age that's been in the NHL since they were 18 and have played over 1000 NHL games already in their career.

Zuccarello is a 1st line 29 year old winger on a great contract. If the Rangers can get a home run of a return for him, they should do it, but I wouldn't be actively shopping him. It would take a return of two blue chip prospects ready to contribute significantly in the NHL for the Rangers front office to even entertain the idea, IMO.

 

[Revel]

While I don't disagree with RB's point that he's trying to make by trying to maximize Zuccarello's value, production and durability layer on in careers is so subjective. Eric Staal is 31 and only two and a half years older than Zuccarello. However, Staal has played an 80 game schedule since he was 15-16 years old. A lot of miles on his tires. It's no shock to me that he's declined. He's played 15 years of long, hard hockey. His career has already been longer than the stars of old.

Zuccarello, on the other hand, has played in the SEL, the AHL, and didn't stick full time in the NHL until he was 25 years old. There are a lot less miles on him than on a player like Staal, for example. I'm much less concerned about Zuccarello declining than a player the same age that's been in the NHL since they were 18 and have played over 1000 NHL games already in their career.

Zuccarello is a 1st line 29 year old winger on a great contract. If the Rangers can get a home run of a return for him, they should do it, but I wouldn't be actively shopping him. It would take a return of two blue chip prospects ready to contribute significantly in the NHL for the Rangers front office to even entertain the idea, IMO.

Nice post.

 

[NewLife]

There are 50 MR's for every MSL. Anything is possible, but what are the odds.

Well Zucc have done nothing but beating the odds his entire career.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

They're humans, not cars.

Martin St. Louis' production didn't decline until he was 35. Mike Richards declined at 25. There are averages but that's all they are. Zucc could very easily have career best seasons in his 30s.

I think this is more a cautionary tale for how athletes take care of themselves....

 

[Levitate]

Again I think the issue is more "are the Rangers hoping to compete again in the next 3 years or so" and if so then trading Zucc for other players means you have to get back some really good players who can help right now, not really unproven "maybe" prospects or picks.

 

[bernmeister]

...

this scenario is not only not realistic, it's plain dumb and ridiculous. NYR gets trouba to flip him for reinhart ?? and schiefle??

NEXT TIME PLS READ
what I said was
consider, pls
everybody wants Schiefle
the time to deal for Scheifle is not now, but earlier when MAYBE there was a possibility of his availability

the point is Reinhart is conceivable now, less likely later


these players are not getting traded and the rangers would never EVER make a move for a stud d-man to flip him for another center and have steps zibby hayes jooris lindberg and reinhart at one time. the EA controller has corrupted your brain. not to mention you are squandering what 3-4 years before reinhart develops into a stud??

Fortunately, Gorton is too smart to listen to your close mindedness.
If there is a big enough gain, he will pull the trigger IMO

It's a good thing, Martha Stewart
Don't fear what you don't understand


let's just squander all those good years lundqvist has left cause goalies like him come around every draft..

No.
Hank is in net until he shows he can't cut it.
could be 2 years, 6 years we don't know exactly
we should BUILD to field the best possible team, as quickly as possible

Little moves and tweaks are not enough
If we do what you suggest, it is a continuation of the status quo
If we do what I suggest, it is likely to be relatively short before that much talent gels and we have an improved team

Learn from recent mistakes, continuing with standard operating procedure will yield maintained status quo, not SIGNIFICANT improvement, which is what we need


NYR is in a retool with a you injection. the turnaround on this team is 1-2 years max. Their top 9 is either protected or exempt from the EXP draft. this is the team going forward..Expect some changes on the defensive side this season most likely and i fully expect a trade for shatty or he will be signed as a UFA. this team is one or 2 players away from a serious threat and you want to decimate it.

The above is not enough.
Need to move vets Stepan, Nash and Klein maybe more


Stephan is a lot better then you are giving him credit for. Im just happy i didn't see brett pesce's name i guess that's an improvement

You are still closeminded about if Stepan is worth more to us as player or in trade

AGAIN STOP WITH THE INSTANT GRATIFICATION

 

[Gardner McKay]

Using 2 earlier examples, Dallas/Buffalo:

Nuke/Honka for MZA +

Girgensens/Ristolainen for MZA/Klein

Is that Nuke or Honka or Nuke & Honka?

Nuke on his own would have to be attached to a MASSIVE freakin' plus to get MZA.

this scenario is not only not realistic, it's plain dumb and ridiculous. NYR gets trouba to flip him for reinhart ?? and schiefle??

......

AGAIN STOP WITH THE INSTANT GRATIFICATION

How did that "no instant gratification" work out when you wanted to trade half the team for Hertl? That surely would have helped us tremendously if management followed your "outside the box" thinking.

If we had listened to your retool on that one (and many others) the only thing we would have been 1-2 years away from is the first time in NHL history a professional team being relegated to a lower league due to sucking.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

this scenario is not only not realistic, it's plain dumb and ridiculous.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Here it is. Bernmeisters "outside the box thinking" from 2013. Just to give some perspective when he says his plans would allow us to compete in 1-2 years max.

What about the proposal that included Staal + Stepan + Klein for Hertl.

Dude you do not get it.

Something like bringing up Miller, will Kreider succeed, etc. are also judgment calls, but there tends to be an objective post mortem that allows everybody to see, in the aftermath, who was right.

I have a good record on some of that stuff.

Trades are more subjective. Not as clear cut.
And not all trades can be equal value, esp. if you want a premium asset, which is scarce, in return.

Overpaying something like Staal + MDZ + Brassard to Jets, a team needing LD, for EKane and Burmistrov rights + Postma is still overpayment even though specifics allow it to be more reasonable than the overpayment you send to say, SJ, for Hertl, where your primary asset traded is a C (Stepan) and not only are they likely to keep their equivalent of Kreider even with a humongous offer, but because you are not exact matching their needs, you have to pay more.

When someone suggests something outside the narrow scope of what the herd parrots, consider an open mind.

If that's too much a courtesy to extend, feel free to press ignore.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Zuccarello is 29 years old. He is as good as he will ever be. He can maintain this level for another year but the production drops at the other side of 30. The Rangers need younger impact players. If Zuccarello is as good as everyone here says,the Rangers should get a solid return.

Sounds like we are stuck with Zooks. Nobody is going to want a over the hill 29 year old that can only maintain his level for one year. They will want younger impact players. Oh well. Too bad Zooks is not as good a everyone here says he is.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Here it is. Bernmeisters "outside the box thinking" from 2013. Just to give some perspective when he says his plans would allow us to compete in 1-2 years max.

He was not wrong there. It wasn't due to his outrageous plans though

 

[Mikos87]

Let's see where the Rangers are at the 20 game mark. I think by then you'll see if:

Pirri
Hayes
Vesey
Buchnevich

provide enough offense and (chants: Buuuuu) to displace one perhaps even both of

Nash
Zucc

I think there's enough offense there to facilitate a trade.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Let's see where the Rangers are at the 20 game mark. I think by then you'll see if:

Pirri
Hayes
Vesey
Buchnevich

provide enough offense and (chants: Buuuuu) to displace one perhaps even both of

Nash
Zucc

I think there's enough offense there to facilitate a trade.

They could always re-assess where they are around mid-January and make a move similar to the Klein-MDZ trade. Maybe they have their eye on a defenseman that's poised to start in the AHL, but should be NHL ready by February or March. A player like Honka and Schmaltz comes to mind.

 

[BBKers]

Who is Anaheim protecting on D in the expansion draft next year?
Bieksa (Has full NTC - buyout candidate I suppose)
Stoner (signed through 2018)
Fowler (likely traded)
Lindholm (still unsigned as RFA)
Despres
Manson
Theodore (Exempt?)
Holzer (exposed)

Somewhere here there is a deal to be made...

 

[Mikos87]

Who is Anaheim protecting on D in the expansion draft next year?
Bieksa (Has full NTC - buyout candidate I suppose)
Stoner (signed through 2018)
Fowler (likely traded)
Lindholm (still unsigned as RFA)
Despres
Manson
Theodore (Exempt?)
Holzer (exposed)

Somewhere here there is a deal to be made...

Exempt
Theodore
Montour

Protect
Vatanen- No brainer
Hindholm- No Brainer
Bieksa- No Move
Fowler- Could be traded
Manson- Keeper
Depres- Could be traded

Expose
Holzer
Stoner

I would even take Bieksa in a deal. Sure he's not a long term solution, but there's familiarity there and hate to say it but he's an upgrade.

They need forwards.

 

[Mikos87]

They could always re-assess where they are around mid-January and make a move similar to the Klein-MDZ trade. Maybe they have their eye on a defenseman that's poised to start in the AHL, but should be NHL ready by February or March. A player like Honka and Schmaltz comes to mind.

Any good NHL ready player that comes in is a value add. But you're right, the team needs young legs that can step in right away.

Schmaltz can eat Shattenkirk's minutes now probably with Parayko taking PP duties with Petro.

Lindell-Honka could be a good cheap option for DAL now too.

Pokka is another.

 

[Mr Clutch]

Have they announced when traing camp starts? Is it sometime this week?

 

[Revel]

Have they announced when traing camp starts? Is it sometime this week?

They usually don't announce the training camp schedule until a couple of days before it starts. Give it another 5 days or so.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I wonder if the team will trade Jensen for another prospect who is waivers exempt...

Would prefer them to move him for a RHD prospect. Someone I could see them liking is Trevor Carrick of the Hurricanes. Jensen can slot onto Carolina's fourth line pretty easily.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Have they announced when traing camp starts? Is it sometime this week?

They haven't announced it yet, but look for it to start the 23rd(weigh ins day). Late this year due to the WC.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I wonder if the team will trade Jensen for another prospect who is waivers exempt...

Would prefer them to move him for a RHD prospect. Someone I could see them liking is Trevor Carrick of the Hurricanes. Jensen can slot onto Carolina's fourth line pretty easily.

Carrick is a LHD, not RHD. Also, I can't see the Canes having ANY interest in Jensen and I don't see him slotting anywhere into the Canes line-up.

 

[Mr Clutch]

They haven't announced it yet, but look for it to start the 23rd(weigh ins day). Late this year due to the WC.

I think u might be right. The last few years they have had weigh ins on a friday and with the 27th the first preseason game that is probably the day. Man, thats still too far! I want rangers hockey now!

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Carrick is a LHD, not RHD. Also, I can't see the Canes having ANY interest in Jensen and I don't see him slotting anywhere into the Canes line-up.

Indeed he is LHD, not right. Capfriendly has him listed as a RHD for some reason.

Regardless, I'll be interested to see how they handle the situation. I assume the team doesn't want to lose Jensen for nothing

 

[Mikos87]

Indeed he is LHD, not right. Capfriendly has him listed as a RHD for some reason.

Regardless, I'll be interested to see how they handle the situation. I assume the team doesn't want to lose Jensen for nothing

Folin from Min could be a good fit. Min has really bad forward depth.