Speculation: Offseason Thread XVIII - Soon September & a new NYR member?

[Amazing Kreiderman]

we need to improve across the board.
at 1C - assuming zib does not emerge
Stepan is what he is, he has plateaued at about 20th OA, no more, no less
instead of trying to force to win now with him,
we should build with a Reinhart type to win soon
with a better pivot soon enough

That's no. 1 center right there. Unless there are only 6 teams in the league, of course.

22nd among forwards in P/60 at ES. Not among centers, among forwards. But sure, trade him because he has a NTC next year.

 

[Avery16]

World Cup nice example of how Torts simply cannot control himself. Went from the totally unforced error of the anthem mess to now throwing Max Pacioretty under the bus after just the second pre-tournament game. Im guessing Babcock spent game one just scouting Torts.

 

[RangerBoy]

Idk if anyone watched the NA vs Europe game but Zuccarrello looked absolutely incredible, my dude is ready for this season. I dont understand why we would trade him right now, just because nobody wants Nash's contract?

Zuccarello has value. Same deal as Brassard. The Rangers traded Brassard. The majority of the people here had the same opinion. Why would we trade Brassard?

"My dude". That doesn't exist in professional sports.

 

[eco's bones]

Zuccarello has value. Same deal as Brassard. The Rangers traded Brassard. The majority of the people here had the same opinion. Why would we trade Brassard?

"My dude". That doesn't exist in professional sports.

Loved Brassard but that deal for us was so good that it's going to be difficult to replicate. I would be on board with moving Zucc if it meant a 5 years younger player that could at least come close right away to matching his production. I would not move him for guys like Nichkushkin or Girgensens (just as examples) though who still have untapped potential that I'm not sure at all they're going to reach. So it would have to be the right guy. The other thing is Ottawa made the deal because of internal budgetary constraints. Not every team is like that. There are some and there are potential Brassard like deals that might be made but probably the next time (if it happens) we're not going to end up with a second round draft pick as an added bonus.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Loved Brassard but that deal for us was so good that it's going to be difficult to replicate. I would be on board with moving Zucc if it meant a 5 years younger player that could at least come close right away to matching his production. I would not move him for guys like Nichkushkin or Girgensens (just as examples) though who still have untapped potential that I'm not sure at all they're going to reach. So it would have to be the right guy. The other thing is Ottawa made the deal because of internal budgetary constraints. Not every team is like that. There are some and there are potential Brassard like deals that might be made but probably the next time (if it happens) we're not going to end up with a second round draft pick as an added bonus.

It makes you wonder why Ottawa did this. Sure, internal budget etc. But getting a 5 year younger player with similar production, who makes less money (for 1 more year, but still) and a 2nd round pick for Brassard? That's a Gomez-like return

 

[Mikos87]

It makes you wonder why Ottawa did this. Sure, internal budget etc. But getting a 5 year younger player with similar production, who makes less money (for 1 more year, but still) and a 2nd round pick for Brassard? That's a Gomez-like return

Cost controlled top 6 center for the next 3 years.

 

[haohmaru]

Zuccarello has value. Same deal as Brassard. The Rangers traded Brassard. The majority of the people here had the same opinion. Why would we trade Brassard?

"My dude". That doesn't exist in professional sports.

Zuccarello has a really friendly cap hit - when you're always up against it, you don't trade guys that have the best contracts unless you're getting back something similar, younger, and less expensive.

I think the Rangers would be hard pressed to replace Zooks and it would be a Hagelin-esque mistake. Unless they're prying a value 1RD from somewhere (good luck with that), I don't see Zooks going anywhere.

 

[Ola]

Eco- Let's see how that trade plays out first. If Zinbanejad can take that next step, then sure it was a -- great -- trade. If not, we got a lot worse and gave up a fairly good contract.

 

[Levitate]

Zuccarello has a really friendly cap hit - when you're always up against it, you don't trade guys that have the best contracts unless you're getting back something similar, younger, and less expensive.

I think the Rangers would be hard pressed to replace Zooks and it would be a Hagelin-esque mistake. Unless they're prying a value 1RD from somewhere (good luck with that), I don't see Zooks going anywhere.

Yeah you need to get pretty big value back for Zucc, probably moreso than what they got for Brassard. The idea of why they'd trade him isn't hard, but I'm not convinced they will trade him, at least not this year. I think they still want to be competitive even if they're also going to start several rookies in the lineup

 

[Gardner McKay]

Zuccarello has value. Same deal as Brassard. The Rangers traded Brassard. The majority of the people here had the same opinion. Why would we trade Brassard?

"My dude". That doesn't exist in professional sports.

Because many of us didn't think we could get the deal that we did. We didn't want a bunch of picks/prospects.

If we can get a similar deal for Zucc, I assume the majority of the fan base would be happy. It would suck to see him go but a Brassard-esque deal is too hard to turn down.

 

[eco's bones]

Eco- Let's see how that trade plays out first. If Zinbanejad can take that next step, then sure it was a -- great -- trade. If not, we got a lot worse and gave up a fairly good contract.

Well we always have to wait and see. Zib is five years younger and his production wasn't quite as good as Brassard's but it was pretty close. It's not just five years younger--he's bigger, a very good skater and better defensively--a regular on Ottawa's penalty kill. Brassard's an excellent player but at this point in his career he is what he is--if either of them have more upside it's the five year younger Zibinejad. All the indicators including the second round pick favor the Rangers. If I were an Ottawa fan I'd have been really pissed about that deal. And I think Zib is right handed to boot and one of the best players in the league in shootouts.

And then there is Kevin Hayes who has second line center potential so even if Zibinejad falls a bit flat we should be okay.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Because many of us didn't think we could get the deal that we did. We didn't want a bunch of picks/prospects.

If we can get a similar deal for Zucc, I assume the majority of the fan base would be happy. It would suck to see him go but a Brassard-esque deal is too hard to turn down.

It would have to be either a younger scoring winger or a D who is younger than Zucc (i.e. no Shattenkirk).

Petrovic, Theodore, Ekholm maybe if we are looking for a D-man.

Jenner or Atkinson looking at forwards.


A Brassard-like return is difficult to find, unless a team really overpays to have Zucc on their team

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Because many of us didn't think we could get the deal that we did. We didn't want a bunch of picks/prospects.

If we can get a similar deal for Zucc, I assume the majority of the fan base would be happy. It would suck to see him go but a Brassard-esque deal is too hard to turn down.

Using 2 earlier examples, Dallas/Buffalo:

Nuke/Honka for MZA +

Girgensens/Ristolainen for MZA/Klein

 

[Levitate]

Buffalo isn't going to trade Ristolainen, why are people entertaining that idea...

 

[Tawnos]

Buffalo isn't going to trade Ristolainen, why are people entertaining that idea...

If this past year and a little more has shown anything, it's that posts like this are misguided. Nashville would never trade Weber. Montreal would never trade Subban. Columbus would never trade Johansen. Nashville would never trade Jones. I'm sure we saw "Ottawa would never trade Zibanejad" at some point too. Etc, etc, etc.

It's been a pretty good stretch for hockey trades. It takes the right deal, but I don't think there are all that many untouchable players in the league.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

It would have to be either a younger scoring winger or a D who is younger than Zucc (i.e. no Shattenkirk).

Petrovic, Theodore, Ekholm maybe if we are looking for a D-man.

Jenner or Atkinson looking at forwards.


A Brassard-like return is difficult to find, unless a team really overpays to have Zucc on their team

I gotta think that there's a deal to be had with Columbus. They need another F and maybe a LD depending on Werenski. Maybe Zuc/Staal but what do we get back?

Zucc/Klein/Staal for Jones/Hartnell?

 

[SA16]

There's no similar trade for Zucc that makes sense. You'd need a team to, again, overpay with a younger roster player for the thought they are getting better now. Obviously you can trade him for picks/prospects but the team isn't going to do that.

The closest equivalents I can see to a Brass/Zibanejad deal would be like..Brayden Schenn, Jaden Schwartz, Tyler Toffoli, Tomas Tatar, Jonathan Huberdeau, Mark Scheifele, Brandon Saad, Alex Galchenyuk none of which are remotely likely for varying reasons (some players just being better than Zucc, some being on rivals, some with big contracts, and some just being so similar already that there's no point though that's when Brass/Zib was).

So basically the only way you get a similar return is if someone does something dumb or you're willing to deal him for a large haul of picks/prospects which isn't realistic.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The only way I'd trade Zucc was if it were to add a RD that could be a staple in our core for the next few years. Other than that, he's on one of the best value contracts in the league and it wouldn't be worth it to move him

 

[RangerBoy]

Zuccarello is 29 years old. He is as good as he will ever be. He can maintain this level for another year but the production drops at the other side of 30. The Rangers need younger impact players. If Zuccarello is as good as everyone here says,the Rangers should get a solid return. There is no trade restriction in place. The Rangers can trade him anywhere.The money isn't crazy like Nash who is owed $16.2M in actual money and the Rangers hands are tied to 12 teams for a Nash trade. Gorton has added three younger impact players in Buchnevich,Zibanejad and Vesey. He wants to get younger. He knows the Rangers have a lot of work to do. I would not pigeon hole myself into focusing on just right handed shooting D. A right handed shooting winger. Nashville acquired Forsberg from the Caps for Erat. The trade is not happening today or next week or next month. Another winger with a higher ceiling than some of the Rangers wingers.

The Rangers had a first round grade on Gropp. Gordie Clark said Gropp is just as good as anyone taken in the 2nd half of the first round in 2015. Time will tell. Clark and his staff have been more right than wrong. If Gropp does become a regular NHL top 6-9 left winger with size,speed and a great shot,is it still a horrible trade? Time will tell.

“This was an opportunity, a real good player that becomes available, and we’re all trying to add that piece. It’s pretty well-documented. We haven’t had any first-round picks. We’ve gone four years without them. We’ve traded some second-round picks. So we’re trying to replace some of that depth that we’ve had in the past with some of the prospects. So any time a guy like this becomes available we’re going to do our best to try to get in the race and we were able to do that. But as far as him and Pavel (Buchnevich) that’s what we’re all trying to do. We’re trying to get as many young players as we can. The game is getting faster and younger and more skilled all the time and we’re certainly in tune with that and understand that. I think it’s a very exciting day for us to get a player like this, and Pavel is a very good player in his own right and we’re looking forward to seeing him in training camp and see how he makes his jump.”

http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2016/..._medium=twitter#sthash.wNzT6LAv.QEkHpBRp.dpbs

Acquire as many young players as possible and worry about where they play later. It creates more depth. Opens up other trade possibilities.

 

[Fitzy]

They're humans, not cars.

Martin St. Louis' production didn't decline until he was 35. Mike Richards declined at 25. There are averages but that's all they are. Zucc could very easily have career best seasons in his 30s.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

That's no. 1 center right there. Unless there are only 6 teams in the league, of course.

22nd among forwards in P/60 at ES. Not among centers, among forwards. But sure, trade him because he has a NTC next year.

But he's plateaued! He must be traded before the NTC kicks in! Preferably for a real top line C to form a mega 1st line of behemoths with world beater Kreider, who is 10 months younger than Stepan but isn't close to his potential plateau and will obviously develop into a 35/35 beast! Because otherwise we = Canadiens!

 

[Charlie Conway]

Eco- Let's see how that trade plays out first. If Zinbanejad can take that next step, then sure it was a -- great -- trade. If not, we got a lot worse and gave up a fairly good contract.

It will be very difficult to lose this trade in a vacuum. Even if Zibby plateaus as the high-40s or 50-something point center he is now, the 2nd, the age difference, and the fact that he's still somewhat cost-controlled for 3 more years more than makes up for any pluses Brass has/had over him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Brass' point totals dip a little bit.

Some Ottawa fans were saying that Zibby was a weak point on a line with Ryan and Stone because you had 3 shoot-first guys and Ryan was a bit slow...lack of chemistry and such...but if you can get 50 points with a non-clicking line, that's still pretty solid. I'm excited to see what he'll do with some alternate options here.

 

[Mac n Gs]

If you want a young right handed forward, look into Oliver Bjorkstrand. He was Keegan Iverson's teammate in Portland, and I'm sure Gordie has seen plenty of him. Young, fast, sniper.

I still think we need defensive depth more than forward depth in the prospect pool.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

They're humans, not cars.

Martin St. Louis' production didn't decline until he was 35. Mike Richards declined at 25. There are averages but that's all they are. Zucc could very easily have career best seasons in his 30s.

There are 50 MR's for every MSL. Anything is possible, but what are the odds.

 

[eco's bones]

Brassard was a great player for us but that deal with Ottawa we won hands down. And yeah if we can win another deal hands down moving Zucc that would be great but deals that good don't come along very often.