Speculation: Offseason Thread XVIII - Soon September & a new NYR member?

[eco's bones]

If you look at Nash. Two of his last three seasons. Concussion in 13-14. The bone bruise in 15-16. Nash suffered a concussion during the lockout season. Lucic hit his head into the glass. Rangers need for him to be healthy and productive. Should the Rangers protect him in the expansion draft? If Nash has an injury plagued season. Scores 20 goals. The Rangers should not protect him. McPhee won't take him. The Rangers can protect another forward. Even if Nash has a good season,would you protect him? If Vegas takes him,the Rangers are off the hook. Free up $7.8M. Open up a spot in the top 6 for the younger guys.

The problem with that is you lose whatever trade value he has. Of course if he has another season like last year his trade value is going to tank even more and that point could be moot.

It's hard to speculate what's going to happen in an expansion draft. There are deals made to take this guy and not that. Vegas isn't likely to make deals with everyone but I expect they will deal with some teams.

Personally with one $7.8 mil year left for Nash unless he's had a 40 goal season and a good playoffs I'd probably expose him.

 

[GAGLine]

If you look at Nash. Two of his last three seasons. Concussion in 13-14. The bone bruise in 15-16. Nash suffered a concussion during the lockout season. Lucic hit his head into the glass. Rangers need for him to be healthy and productive. Should the Rangers protect him in the expansion draft? If Nash has an injury plagued season. Scores 20 goals. The Rangers should not protect him. McPhee won't take him. The Rangers can protect another forward. Even if Nash has a good season,would you protect him? If Vegas takes him,the Rangers are off the hook. Free up $7.8M. Open up a spot in the top 6 for the younger guys.

The only reason I can see protecting Nash is if we have a deal in place for him, but that deal requires us to wait until after the expansion draft because the other team can't fit Nash into their protections.

I would prefer to trade him rather than see him walk or get taken by Las Vegas. The money isn't that much of a concern since he will be off the books, one way or another, by the time we need that money.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'm really curious how many picks Vegas is going to stockpile simply from other teams giving them draft picks so that they don't draft specific players.

 

[Riche16]

If you look at Nash. Two of his last three seasons. Concussion in 13-14. The bone bruise in 15-16. Nash suffered a concussion during the lockout season. Lucic hit his head into the glass. Rangers need for him to be healthy and productive. Should the Rangers protect him in the expansion draft? If Nash has an injury plagued season. Scores 20 goals. The Rangers should not protect him. McPhee won't take him. The Rangers can protect another forward. Even if Nash has a good season,would you protect him? If Vegas takes him,the Rangers are off the hook. Free up $7.8M. Open up a spot in the top 6 for the younger guys.

Makes zero sense. The NYR didn't trade him because they couldn't get "their" price for him. But hold him and lose for nothing makes less sense. Get an asset(s) for him. I mean I don't like him, but letting LV just take him seems to make zero sense to me.

 

[bernmeister]

Hey--I like you too.

Thanks very much!

 

[RangerBoy]

I think Gorton wanted to do more but he could not. Not that many trades were made. He probably could have moved some more players but it would not have made the team better now and/or in the future. Gorton will wait for the right opportunity. Remember when Craig Custance asked Gorton the main difference between him and Slats? Gorton said he is more patient. That's not a knock on Sather. Sometimes being impulsive is good. He wants to get younger. The Rangers need their young guys to play well. Skjei. The Rangers need him big time. Remember when McDonagh was entering his first full NHL season. Staal was still suffering from the concussion suffered during the previous season. The Rangers had nowhere to go so they went with McDonagh to pair with Girardi. McDonagh was great. He had more NHL experience than Skjei has at the same point in their careers. Skjei has much more AHL experience. The Rangers need Skjei to play like McDonagh did in his 2nd pro year. Hopefully/maybe McIlrath can become a regular NHL D. If Staal was healthy,maybe McDonagh does not receive that opportunity and Stralman never plays another NHL game. The Rangers need Zibanejad to become their #1 center and a #1 center in the NHL . I would like to see AV use Zibanejad the same way he used Ryan Kesler who was a great player until age set in & he had hip surgery. We were discussing Zibanejad yesterday during the Jets game. My buddy brought up David Backes. Mika is better player than Backes. Zibanejad can be a major cog going forward. He is 23. His point production has improved every season. From 1 to 20 to 33 to 46 to 51. Zibanejad has accomplished more at the same age than Kesler and Backes.

 

[RangerBoy]

Makes zero sense. The NYR didn't trade him because they couldn't get "their" price for him. But hold him and lose for nothing makes less sense. Get an asset(s) for him. I mean I don't like him, but letting LV just take him seems to make zero sense to me.

What if you can not trade Nash?

 

[bernmeister]

schiefle was never, reinhart is going to be never, and never ever ever will any team in the NHL ever make a series of trades like this in the shortened span you have laid out here. this is NYR roster, not sam's hot car lot where players are flying off the lot a reduced prices for absolute nonsense. your the one with the closed minded view of stepan. he is 26 years old. Not a 30 + vet, although he plays with the savvy of one. Thank god gorton's not as close minded as me?? listen tiny tim, if gorton ever made these trades, not only would he be fired, he would be hauled off to the laughing academy with padded walls to play NHL16 with you all day. the only way steps is getting traded is if hayes takes a massive step forward and turns into a less physical version of joe thornton in a year before steps NTC kicks in.. in short probably never

1 barely coherent
2 everyone is available for the right price, which obviously, in many cases is not worth paying.
3 The point you keep missing about Schiefle, which applies also to others generally including Reinhart specifically, is their stock [and corresponding price] goes up with each year they convert perceived potential into actual demonstration of ability and worth. Therefore, the earlier you buy at higher risk the less the cost, assuming #2 above and you are willing to pay a high enough price.
4 McD gets Trouba which gets Reinhart, esp since Buf has Eichel + in pivot already
5 "Thank god gorton's not as close minded as me??" Your posts speak for themselves.
6 "listen tiny tim"
7 "he only way steps is getting traded is if hayes takes a massive step forward and turns into a less physical version of joe thornton in a year before steps NTC kicks in.. in short probably never" - you are conceding my point there is a point at which Stepan should/will be replaced by younger = proof that youth will be served
8 FOR THE LAST TIME, IT IS NMC NOT NTC.

 

[RangerBoy]

Say the Rangers make no moves. Vesey and Buchnevich are exempt. The Rangers protect Stepan,Zibanejad,Hayes,Kreider,Miller and Zuccarello. That is 6. Lindberg comes back from his hip surgery and plays well. Do you protect Lindberg or 33 year old Rick Nash/$7.8M cap/$8.2M salary? I hope the Rangers can trade Nash in a Gaborik type of deal.

 

[bernmeister]

So, when are we getting hertl?

that ship has not quite sailed, but it is far enough gone.
Hertl is now poised to inherit 1C in the near future, Sharks would want the sun and moon and stars. The last couple of years was when a play was not a given, but theoretically possible.

 

[bernmeister]

Is it better to be on Bern's list of people that he likes or worse?

Great question.

Ya can be on my likes list
or not

just don't get on my you know what list

That would make me go all Santa Claus on your ass if you've been naughty!

 

[NickyFotiu]

not to imply anything vs everybody else, but it is the posts by
BBKers
bluenote 13
Crease
Dragoon
Eco's Bones
RangerBoy
Savant
and Tawnos

that make this worthwhile

Cough Cough. I'm quitting hockey for life if I'm not immediately added to your list

 

[bernmeister]

The only reason I can see protecting Nash is if we have a deal in place for him, but that deal requires us to wait until after the expansion draft because the other team can't fit Nash into their protections.

I would prefer to trade him rather than see him walk or get taken by Las Vegas. The money isn't that much of a concern since he will be off the books, one way or another, by the time we need that money.

Another intelligent post.

I owe an apology for excluding from my list
should add GAGLine, Amity Affliction and Willem Dafoe

sorry, lots of stress in the real world

 

[bernmeister]

Cough Cough. I'm quitting hockey for life if I'm not immediately added to your list

IMMEDIATELY IF NOT SOONER

yes, by all means the man who is not ex Ranger Nicky F, but is still as gregarious and easy going as his namesake (met only once but a class act).

Thank you kind sir, and good friend to us all.

besides, would be criminal to have you quit hockey for life over that!

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

I have a disconnect with most re: Stepan
I believe whether or not you think we should/need to upgrade
we can do better by repurposing his 6.5 on this roster/additions
and on top of that, again is the NMC, which cannot be permitted.
Others disagree.

Stepan is a 26 year old 50-60 point 2 way center who plays in all situations. Exactly the type of player the Rangers would be looking to sign for years if they traded him, most likely having to pay more for an older replacement. Almost as dumb as trading mcdonagh and giving his minutes to Skjei this season. Oh wait, you suggested that too.

I hope something happens in Rangersland soon, so we can all go back to scrolling past Bern's walls of nonsense.

 

[bernmeister]

...

Stepan is a 26 year old 50-60 point 2 way center who plays in all situations. Exactly the type of player the Rangers would be looking to sign for years if they traded him, most likely having to pay more for an older replacement.

Not enough to justify the negatives of retaining the 6.5, and the crippling NMC; also completely ignores the reality we would be getting a return for Stepan, without even entertaining the possibility that could be an upgrade.

Close minded, Dr.
Physician heal thyself

Almost as dumb as trading mcdonagh and giving his minutes to Skjei this season. Oh wait, you suggested that too.

Not dumb
takes balls to go there, but not dumb, just believe there is basis to think that WITH THE RIGHT PARTNER
yes, Skjei can cut the mustard and do those mins

I hope something happens in Rangersland soon, so we can all go back to scrolling past Bern's walls of nonsense.

Hope is always good.
Thank God I have hope that Gorton's views are closer in line with my own, an improvement over Slats, get away from appeasing coaches, and stop with the win now mentality
build, and then really win

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

Not enough to justify the negatives of retaining the 6.5, and the crippling NMC; also completely ignores the reality we would be getting a return for Stepan, without even entertaining the possibility that could be an upgrade.

Close minded, Dr.
Physician heal thyself




Not dumb
takes balls to go there, but not dumb, just believe there is basis to think that WITH THE RIGHT PARTNER
yes, Skjei can cut the mustard and do those mins



Hope is always good.
Thank God I have hope that Gorton's views are closer in line with my own, an improvement over Slats, get away from appeasing coaches, and stop with the win now mentality
build, and then really win

But we never win in your scenario, because we would always be downgrading. And if those players that we downgraded to reach their potential, they will get paid the same way stepan did if not more, and you would be looking to trade them away again. You also said we'd be allocating Stepan's money elsewhere, leaving a big hole at a key position. Sometimes you have to stop trying to get better in the future and try and win in the present.

And yes, trading away your best defenseman in his prime on a sweetheart contract to replace his large minutes with a guy with 7 regular season games under his belt is dumb. Really dumb.

 

[Riche16]

What if you can not trade Nash?

Ridic... U could get a 7th for him and that's an asset. Better than nothing. Hank was taken in the 7th Rd.

 

[silverfish]

Ridic... U could get a 7th for him and that's an asset. Better than nothing. Hank was taken in the 7th Rd.

Yeah, but so was Cliff Loya.

 

[jay from jersey]

oh yea

1 barely coherent
2 everyone is available for the right price, which obviously, in many cases is not worth paying.
3 The point you keep missing about Schiefle, which applies also to others generally including Reinhart specifically, is their stock [and corresponding price] goes up with each year they convert perceived potential into actual demonstration of ability and worth. Therefore, the earlier you buy at higher risk the less the cost, assuming #2 above and you are willing to pay a high enough price.
4 McD gets Trouba which gets Reinhart, esp since Buf has Eichel + in pivot already
5 "Thank god gorton's not as close minded as me??" Your posts speak for themselves.
6 "listen tiny tim"
7 "he only way steps is getting traded is if hayes takes a massive step forward and turns into a less physical version of joe thornton in a year before steps NTC kicks in.. in short probably never" - you are conceding my point there is a point at which Stepan should/will be replaced by younger = proof that youth will be served
8 FOR THE LAST TIME, IT IS NMC NOT NTC.

let's put our offers together for McDavid and Ekblad now before their values go up with seasons played. Just because these players Schifele,reinhart,bennet,etc are young and have tremendous potential doesn't mean you have a chance to grab them before their value goes up. The teams that drafted them know very well of their progress and talents. THAT"S WHY THEY WERE DRAFTED WHERE THEY WERE .If they do come up for trade in the future it is because they have either been usurped by better prospects in their system or they trade them to fill another need on their team. Most of the players you mention you would trade stepan for do not help this team. the list goes on and on and on Pesce,hertl,etc. it's the ravings of a madman. I already told you on the main board, I rather ice joe pesci then make some of these lunatic trades including stepan.

 

[NickyFotiu]

IMMEDIATELY IF NOT SOONER

yes, by all means the man who is not ex Ranger Nicky F, but is still as gregarious and easy going as his namesake (met only once but a class act).

Thank you kind sir, and good friend to us all.

besides, would be criminal to have you quit hockey for life over that!

Thank you kind sir and gentleman for rectifying that oversight.

I feel much better now!!!

 

[silverfish]

Scott Cullen scoring projections:

http://www.tsn.ca/crosby-leads-list-of-top-300-projected-scorers-1.565371

58. Zuccarello - 22g, 34a, 56p
85. Stepan - 19g, 33a, 52p
108. Zib - 20g, 20a, 48p
132. Nash - 25g, 20a, 45p
148. Hayes - 17g, 27a, 44p
157. Kreider - 21g, 22a, 43p
205. Miller - 18g, 19a, 37p
232. McDonagh - 10g, 24a, 34p
237. Lindberg - 15g, 18a, 33p
270. Buch - 12g, 18a, 30p
297. Pirri - 15g, 12a, 27p
298. Vesey - 14g, 13a, 27p

 

[jay from jersey]

Bingo

I think Gorton wanted to do more but he could not. Not that many trades were made. He probably could have moved some more players but it would not have made the team better now and/or in the future. Gorton will wait for the right opportunity. Remember when Craig Custance asked Gorton the main difference between him and Slats? Gorton said he is more patient. That's not a knock on Sather. Sometimes being impulsive is good. He wants to get younger. The Rangers need their young guys to play well. Skjei. The Rangers need him big time. Remember when McDonagh was entering his first full NHL season. Staal was still suffering from the concussion suffered during the previous season. The Rangers had nowhere to go so they went with McDonagh to pair with Girardi. McDonagh was great. He had more NHL experience than Skjei has at the same point in their careers. Skjei has much more AHL experience. The Rangers need Skjei to play like McDonagh did in his 2nd pro year. Hopefully/maybe McIlrath can become a regular NHL D. If Staal was healthy,maybe McDonagh does not receive that opportunity and Stralman never plays another NHL game. The Rangers need Zibanejad to become their #1 center and a #1 center in the NHL . I would like to see AV use Zibanejad the same way he used Ryan Kesler who was a great player until age set in & he had hip surgery. We were discussing Zibanejad yesterday during the Jets game. My buddy brought up David Backes. Mika is better player than Backes. Zibanejad can be a major cog going forward. He is 23. His point production has improved every season. From 1 to 20 to 33 to 46 to 51. Zibanejad has accomplished more at the same age than Kesler and Backes.

Bingo brother. The D has to be fixed gorts knows that he was just at the mercy of the cap and certain teams that were low balling him because of it. The ZBAD trade is good but he did not rob ottawa. Brass is cost controlled for 3 years where zibby is not. Brass is a playoff stud where zibby still needs to prove his worth. Brass is more of a playmeker and zibby is more of a shooter.. the trade works well for both NYR also recieves a 2nd rd pick for cash. the cash was paid so OTT only has to pay brass 3 mill a year for 3 years. NYR essentially bought a 2nd rounder for straight cash. This is the type of thing this team should be doing more of. Throwing their weight around on the financial side of things. The guys i think he should target whether it be in trade this season or UFA after are Montour, shattenkirk,dumba,spurgeon,etc. Fix the RD problem and the offensive lost by yandle on the backend with one or 2 moves no matter if it takes all year. Gorts is setting this team up with young players with experience that can explode any time. They need to develop a NIche. Tons of potential moving forward.

 

[Levitate]

Scott Cullen scoring projections:

http://www.tsn.ca/crosby-leads-list-of-top-300-projected-scorers-1.565371

58. Zuccarello - 22g, 34a, 56p
85. Stepan - 19g, 33a, 52p
108. Zib - 20g, 20a, 48p
132. Nash - 25g, 20a, 45p
148. Hayes - 17g, 27a, 44p
157. Kreider - 21g, 22a, 43p
205. Miller - 18g, 19a, 37p
232. McDonagh - 10g, 24a, 34p
237. Lindberg - 15g, 18a, 33p
270. Buch - 12g, 18a, 30p
297. Pirri - 15g, 12a, 27p
298. Vesey - 14g, 13a, 27p

Seems to be pretty much "just kinda average out their production over the last few years"

e: though if Zibby scores 20 goals and 20 assists and somehow has 48 points then I must assume he's some kind of wizard

 

[aufheben]

1k. Continue here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2124659