Offseason Thread Part II

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Balthazar

I haven't talked to the trainers yet
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shadow1

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Yeah, no way are there not a sizable amount of players on any of Kadri's teams who aren't at least a little frustrated with him. I'm still annoyed at one game not that long ago where Nuke was perfectly positioned for a gimme goal just to the right of the crease and Kadri ignored him and shot it right in the goalie's pads. I want to say that was in the STL series but can't be sure.

Kadri really only works with a playmaker on his wing and even then there are issues. I really hope Bednar continues the experiment with Kadri on LW with Newhook and Burakovsky, that showed some early signs of promise.

Yeah, he was so bad last season. 32 points in 56 games is respectable, but it's how he got there that is concerning:

Gms 1-10: 3G, 4A, -7
Gms 11-20: 3G, 5A, -6
Gms 21-30: 4G, 6A, +8
Gms 31-40: 0G, 3A, -1
Gms 41-50: 1G, 0A, +0
Gms 51-56: 0G, 3A, +1
(P) Gms 1-2: 0G, 1A -1

Kadri basically wasn't scoring for half a season before the suspension, which was the cherry on top. As you pointed out, his hockey IQ is a huge issue, so I don't think it's a guarantee that he'll return to producing at a top-6 level (especially when there's basically a 50/50 chance JT Compher will be one of his line mates).

The Nichushkin-Jost-Donskoi (14GF, 2GA, 65% CF) really helped carry the Avalanche for a while, and the most offensive member of that line is gone. The Avalanche are going to be in trouble if Kadri doesn't return to form.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
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How about Lehkonen to fill that 2nd line role?

Yes, he's more of a traditional bottom 6 forward, but:
  • He has great analytics;
  • He's a fantastic forechecker;
  • He's an excellent PKer;
  • He's good at chance creation (but terrible finishing), which could work well with two shooters (Kadri/Burakovsky); and
  • His $2.3m caphit would fit perfectly into our cap structure and allow us to run a 23 man roster.
He just had a down year production wise, but does nonetheless have an 18 goal season in his history.

In the playoffs he fit in extremely well with Danault and Gallagher when Tatar was healthy scratched. The numbers below are Danault and Gallagher's 5v5 metrics in the playoffs, and I've highlighted their stats in situations with and without Lehkonen as highlighted.
  • With Lehkonen they were a very dominant line as shown by the 64.45 xGF%. That means that with Lehkonen they had 2/3 of the chances in the game, or in other words, twice as many chances to score as the other team. That's a great line.
  • Without Lehkonen the line were significantly worse, conceding more chances than they created (41%) and being a negative possession line.
He does seem like a player who could be a good complement to Kadri and Burakovsky and help them excel as a line, particularly given that Lehkonen would do a lot of dirty work and puck retrieval. Lehkonen is also responsible defensively.

Maybe the offense not being enough rules this out as an option, but I thought it was an interesting idea.


upload_2021-8-4_21-34-6.png
 
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Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
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Evolving Hockey updated their skater similarity charts today to include this past season. I use their tools a lot but I’ve never been able to look at Devon Toews because it needed 3 seasons of work before it applied to a player

Well here it is. His most similar analytical player? Prime Vlasic.

PlayerPosition TypeShootsAge RangeSeasonsContinuousSim Score
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
1Marc-Edouard VlasicDL26-2813-16Y84.8
2Marc-Edouard VlasicDL25-2712-15Y84.6
3Mattias EkholmDL25-2715-18Y83.7
4Mattias EkholmDL23-2513-16Y83.2
5Hampus LindholmDL22-2416-19Y83.2
6Mattias EkholmDL24-2614-17Y82.8
7Paul MartinDL26-2807-10Y82.5
8Matt CarleDL22-2407-10Y82.1
9Anton StralmanDR25-2711-14Y82
10MacKenzie WeegarDR24-2618-21Y81.4
11Jake GardinerDL24-2614-17Y81.3
12Mattias EkholmDL26-2816-19Y81.3
13Jaccob SlavinDL22-2416-19Y81
14Shea WeberDR25-2710-13Y80.8
15Alex GoligoskiDL24-2609-12Y80.7
16Marc-Edouard VlasicDL23-2510-13Y80.4
17Carlo ColaiacovoDL26-2809-12Y80.3
18Jared SpurgeonDR26-2816-19Y80.2
19Trevor Van RiemsdykDR24-2615-18Y80.2
20Chris TanevDR22-2412-15Y80.1
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 

Avaholic29

Registered User
Feb 5, 2014
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Evolving Hockey updated their skater similarity charts today to include this past season. I use their tools a lot but I’ve never been able to look at Devon Toews because it needed 3 seasons of work before it applied to a player

Well here it is. His most similar analytical player? Prime Vlasic.

PlayerPosition TypeShootsAge RangeSeasonsContinuousSim Score
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
1Marc-Edouard VlasicDL26-2813-16Y84.8
2Marc-Edouard VlasicDL25-2712-15Y84.6
3Mattias EkholmDL25-2715-18Y83.7
4Mattias EkholmDL23-2513-16Y83.2
5Hampus LindholmDL22-2416-19Y83.2
6Mattias EkholmDL24-2614-17Y82.8
7Paul MartinDL26-2807-10Y82.5
8Matt CarleDL22-2407-10Y82.1
9Anton StralmanDR25-2711-14Y82
10MacKenzie WeegarDR24-2618-21Y81.4
11Jake GardinerDL24-2614-17Y81.3
12Mattias EkholmDL26-2816-19Y81.3
13Jaccob SlavinDL22-2416-19Y81
14Shea WeberDR25-2710-13Y80.8
15Alex GoligoskiDL24-2609-12Y80.7
16Marc-Edouard VlasicDL23-2510-13Y80.4
17Carlo ColaiacovoDL26-2809-12Y80.3
18Jared SpurgeonDR26-2816-19Y80.2
19Trevor Van RiemsdykDR24-2615-18Y80.2
20Chris TanevDR22-2412-15Y80.1
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


One of sakics best moves for sure.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
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We should have traded for Weegar last offseason as well, instead of just going for Toews, especially if the price was similar, or Jost+ as was rumoured at the time. Can you imagine having another top pair RHD, making $3.25m for the next two seasons?

Toews -- Makar
Girard -- Weegar
Byram -- Johnson
 
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Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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I now too wonder if Saad passed on us instead of the other way around. Maybe he decided that we don't have the mentality/maturity that it takes.

Probably best not to read too much into it. I think it just came down to the fact that the Avs did not offer as much money as the Blues did. That's it, end of story.

I seriously doubt he would question the mental toughness of the Avalanche and then promptly join the team the Avalanche curb-stomped in vicious fashion in the playoffs.

I mean, seriously? Are we gonna call a team whose goalie flies off the handle in more ridiculous fashion than Devan Dubnyk "mentally tough"!?
 

Bill Peckerskull

Fargin' Icehole
Feb 19, 2003
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The 22-year-old has a load of ability, and he’s producing at a decent clip with 29 points in 58 games, but the fact that the Hurricanes are already testing his trade market less than a year after acquiring him generally isn’t a great sign

Hmm..he's 26.

Edit: Did you just post an article from 2017?
Why... yes... apparently I did....

 

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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We should have traded for Weegar last offseason as well, instead of just going for Toews, especially if the price was similar, or Jost+ as was rumoured at the time. Can you imagine having another top pair RHD, making $3.25m for the next two seasons?

Toews -- Makar
Girard -- Weegar
Byram -- Johnson

Avs didn't really have the cap room for both players. Remember they dealt away Ian Cole just to get some breathing room. And it's clear Florida may have been shopping Weegar but it doesn't sound like they were super-serious about it. They would've much rather someone had traded for Keith Yandle.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
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Avs didn't really have the cap room for both players. Remember they dealt away Ian Cole just to get some breathing room. And it's clear Florida may have been shopping Weegar but it doesn't sound like they were super-serious about it. They would've much rather someone had traded for Keith Yandle.
Yes at the time of the trade Toews trade there wouldn't have been capspace for Weegar. But, recall that Graves was signed to a $3.16m contract just a day or two before the Toews trade (and Weegar rumours) happened. Sakic easily could have traded for Weegar and given him the $3.25m x 3 contract Florida gave him (essentially the same as Graves' contract) and then traded Graves while his stock was at an all-time high after playing top pairing minutes with Makar and leading the league in plus-minus.

We would have entered the season with the lineup below, with essentially Weegar with Girard instead of Graves, a sizeable upgrade.

Toews -- Makar
Girard -- Weegar
Cole ----- Johnson
Byram -- Timmins
 

Chiarelli

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Jan 27, 2019
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Necas loves his buddy Kaut....

What do we add to Kaut to get Tuevo?

Would be nice to ditch Compher in that trade as well
 

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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Yes at the time of the trade Toews trade there wouldn't have been capspace for Weegar. But, recall that Graves was signed to a $3.16m contract just a day or two before the Toews trade (and Weegar rumours) happened. Sakic easily could have traded for Weegar and given him the $3.25m x 3 contract Florida gave him (essentially the same as Graves' contract) and then traded Graves while his stock was at an all-time high after playing top pairing minutes with Makar and leading the league in plus-minus.

We would have entered the season with the lineup below, with essentially Weegar with Girard instead of Graves, a sizeable upgrade.

Toews -- Makar
Girard -- Weegar
Cole ----- Johnson
Byram -- Timmins

I think we can say with reasonable certainty that Sakic had no idea he was going to get Toews when he signed Graves to that contract. Yes, Weegar in for Graves would have been an INSANE upgrade. But I still very seriously doubt just how aggressively they were shopping that guy. Zito's proving to be a pretty smart GM, I'm sure he was shopping the player but the asking price would not have been cheap, otherwise he likely would've been dealt.
 
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Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,181
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I think we can say with reasonable certainty that Sakic had no idea he was going to get Toews when he signed Graves to that contract. Yes, Weegar in for Graves would have been an INSANE upgrade. But I still very seriously doubt just how aggressively they were shopping that guy. Zito's proving to be a pretty smart GM, I'm sure he was shopping the player but the asking price would not have been cheap, otherwise he likely would've been dealt.
I disagree. That contract happened a very short period of time before the Toews trade, so it seemed to me that Sakic wanted to get Graves locked up at a reasonable number first before pulling the trigger on the trade, so as to not have Graves and Toews' agents using Graves and Toews as comparables to get them more money (that likely would have happened in Graves' case at least given that he had very similar career basic stats (games played, points, etc) as Toews.
 
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SoftMittsHardSticks

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Jan 3, 2014
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Evolving Hockey updated their skater similarity charts today to include this past season. I use their tools a lot but I’ve never been able to look at Devon Toews because it needed 3 seasons of work before it applied to a player

Well here it is. His most similar analytical player? Prime Vlasic.

PlayerPosition TypeShootsAge RangeSeasonsContinuousSim Score
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
1Marc-Edouard VlasicDL26-2813-16Y84.8
2Marc-Edouard VlasicDL25-2712-15Y84.6
3Mattias EkholmDL25-2715-18Y83.7
4Mattias EkholmDL23-2513-16Y83.2
5Hampus LindholmDL22-2416-19Y83.2
6Mattias EkholmDL24-2614-17Y82.8
7Paul MartinDL26-2807-10Y82.5
8Matt CarleDL22-2407-10Y82.1
9Anton StralmanDR25-2711-14Y82
10MacKenzie WeegarDR24-2618-21Y81.4
11Jake GardinerDL24-2614-17Y81.3
12Mattias EkholmDL26-2816-19Y81.3
13Jaccob SlavinDL22-2416-19Y81
14Shea WeberDR25-2710-13Y80.8
15Alex GoligoskiDL24-2609-12Y80.7
16Marc-Edouard VlasicDL23-2510-13Y80.4
17Carlo ColaiacovoDL26-2809-12Y80.3
18Jared SpurgeonDR26-2816-19Y80.2
19Trevor Van RiemsdykDR24-2615-18Y80.2
20Chris TanevDR22-2412-15Y80.1
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Just out of curiosity, are you able to get the comparables for Girard?
 
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