Official Training Camp Roster Talk - Part II (The Final Stretch)

[PM]

Sutter is actually starting with the Sedins too eh? And Virtanen scratched too... Maybe they think its still preseason.

 

[Scurr]

This amount of Biega love isn't justified if you watched him very closely as the preseason progressed.

His effectiveness dropped off as games went along, he he just doesn't have NHL wheels.

He displayed great instincts and played much more aggressively than last yr... but his wheels - just not good enough and his strength in puck battles in the d zone not good enough.

He is a great story tho... and he'll be a very serviceable call up.

He now have some decent D depth to call up in what initially looked like a glaring hole..
Beyond the top 7, we can callup Corrado, Biega, Fedun as our 8th, 9th, and 10th Dmen.

He also has a 7 game sample in the NHL last season where he was replacement level at best.

 

[MS]

This amount of Biega love isn't justified if you watched him very closely as the preseason progressed.

His effectiveness dropped off as games went along, he he just doesn't have NHL wheels.

He displayed great instincts and played much more aggressively than last yr... but his wheels - just not good enough and his strength in puck battles in the d zone not good enough.

He is a great story tho... and he'll be a very serviceable call up.

He now have some decent D depth to call up in what initially looked like a glaring hole..
Beyond the top 7, we can callup Corrado, Biega, Fedun as our 8th, 9th, and 10th Dmen.

Uh, what? Are you serious?

His best game was his 2nd last game, against San Jose, where he was the best player on the ice for either team. His last game he was also just fine. Generally speaking, he got *better* as he went along, not worse. Bartkowski got worse.

And his skating is his best asset. He might be the best skating defender we have.

Were you actually watching the games?

 

[DL44]

Uh, what? Are you serious?

His best game was his 2nd last game, against San Jose, where he was the best player on the ice for either team. His last game he was also just fine. Generally speaking, he got *better* as he went along, not worse. Bartkowski got worse.

And his skating is his best asset. He might be the best skating defender we have.

Were you actually watching the games?

Oh dear.

 

[MS]

He also has a 7 game sample in the NHL last season where he was replacement level at best.

So in his first 7 NHL games he was as good as Bartkowski and better than Sbisa?

 

[MS]

Oh dear.

Again, did you actually watch the games?

The guy has some issues but his mobility is absolutely outstanding.

 

[DL44]

Again, did you actually watch the games?

The guy has some issues but his mobility is absolutely outstanding.

Did you?

I suggest you go back to your PVR and take a look at his first step and ability to accelerate.

But i understand why he appeared to be good skater.
Nothing wrong with how he looked skating up and down the ice... and his agility and *edge work was NHL caliber(*edge work was great).. but he has no first step or top end speed. I commented on a few times thru camp..

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Biega's biggest problem was his reads on breakouts. He skated into trouble a few times.

 

[fancouver]

Hutton and Bartkowski were easily more mobile and better skaters than the rest of the blueline.

 

[shortshorts]

Did you?

I suggest you go back to your PVR and take a look at his first step and ability to accelerate.

But i understand why he appeared to be good skater.
Nothing wrong with how he looked skating up and down the ice... and his agility and *edge work was NHL caliber(*edge work was great).. but he has no first step or top end speed. I commented on a few times thru camp..

Top end speed and acceleration is much less important than edgework and agility as a defender... Especially as a third pairing defender.

 

[MS]

Did you?

I suggest you go back to your PVR and take a look at his first step and ability to accelerate.

But i understand why he appeared to be good skater.
Nothing wrong with how he looked skating up and down the ice... and his agility and *edge work was NHL caliber(*edge work was great).. but he has no first step or top end speed. I commented on a few times thru camp..

First off, I disagree on his top-end speed. He looks terrific winding it up to carry out of his zone.

Second, forward speed - despite looking nice - is the least important part of skating ability for a defender. The agility and edge work you talk about is FAR more important in terms of lateral mobility and gap control. And in that regard he excelled.

Also, I'm not the only person who felt this way - here are orcatown's comments after the last preseason game, which wasn't even his best :

To me, he was the best defenseman we had in this game. Just great wheels and used them to control the play when he was out. I thought he was a step ahead of the play all game. Closes so fast on players that he doesn't give them time to do anything with the puck.

Which is again spot on and exactly what I was seeing.

Hugely mobile, pushing the play hard with terrific gap control and anticipation.

And again, the notion that he 'got worse' as the preseason went along is just completely false. He got better. And vastly outplayed 3 guys who are on this team.

When you look at Biega's defensive fundamentals and gap control, and then compare it to those of Sbisa and Bartkowski ... it's just on a different level.

 

[alternate]

When you look at Biega's defensive fundamentals and gap control, and then compare it to those of Sbisa and Bartkowski ... it's just on a different level.

yeah, the AHL level.

 

[PM]

Bartowski is basically a one-zone player, the neutral zone. He looks great carrying the puck from blueline to blueline but he's not good positionally in his own zone and is not physical in front of the net and the second he carries that puck over the other team's blueline he becomes Mason Raymond. Not a horrible player but overpaid and will get too much playing time based on the GM that signed him.

I think Biega is much better and would be the perfect defense partner for Hutton. Sadly I think that Biega and Hahmuis are now our two toughest dmen

And no, Sbisa is not tough. He's scared of Gustav Nyquist.

 

[MS]

yeah, the AHL level.

Anything to actually contribute?

What are your thoughts on the positioning and gap control of Luca Sbisa vs. Alex Biega?

 

[arsmaster*]

I don't know how anyone can knock Biega's preseason, seems to me like more JB justification than anything else.

Bartkowski's final 30 games to end last season 0 goals, 0 assists - 5

What a stud. Biega out produced him in 7 games.

 

[PM]

I don't know how anyone can knock Biega's preseason, seems to me like more JB justification than anything else.

Bartkowski's final 30 games to end last season 0 goals, 0 assists - 5

What a stud. Biega out produced him in 7 games.

People see Bartowski's speed and are easily impressed. Like I just said, he's good in the neutral zone but that's about it. In either team's zones he's one of our worst defenders. He's the Mason Raymond of the blueline (the current waivers Raymond, not the 20 goal scoring Raymond).

 

[Scurr]

People see Bartowski's speed and are easily impressed. Like I just said, he's good in the neutral zone but that's about it. In either team's zones he's one of our worst defenders. He's the Mason Raymond of the blueline (the current waivers Raymond, not the 20 goal scoring Raymond).

Bartkowski has over 2000 minutes in the NHL as a positive possession player.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1441&withagainst=true&season=2007-15&sit=5v5

Biega doesn't.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=2086&withagainst=true&season=2007-15&sit=5v5

 

[God]

People see Bartowski's speed and are easily impressed. Like I just said, he's good in the neutral zone but that's about it. In either team's zones he's one of our worst defenders. He's the Mason Raymond of the blueline (the current waivers Raymond, not the 20 goal scoring Raymond).

Mason Raymond has more defensive hockey sense in his pinky than Bartkowski.

Bartkowski looked totally lost in his own zone. He's like a Sbisa with wheels.

 

[Nucker101]

Biega's top end speed is solid. My only issue with him is how he looked here last season, it's rare for a career AHL player at his age to suddenly improve by a significant amount.

Last year he was definitely physical but most of his shifts were played on the wrong side of the ice.

But then again, he was anchored with Sbisa so it's hard to judge.

 

[arsmaster*]

People see Bartowski's speed and are easily impressed. Like I just said, he's good in the neutral zone but that's about it. In either team's zones he's one of our worst defenders. He's the Mason Raymond of the blueline (the current waivers Raymond, not the 20 goal scoring Raymond).

I just laughed at scurr's narrative that Biega was replacement level.....most of our team is at the bottom of the roster.

Sbisa is replacement level, so is Bartkowski, so is Prust, so is Dorsett, so is Cracknell, so is Weber.

The term is getting ridiculous.

All these guys can perform, can they be replaced, sure? ....I'd prefer the replacements to be cheaper so we can add better NHLers.

 

[Intangibos]

I hope Sbisa doesn't make Edler look terrible until we dump Edler for a 4th at the deadline

 

[God]

Bartkowski has over 2000 minutes in the NHL as a positive possession player.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1441&withagainst=true&season=2007-15&sit=5v5

Biega doesn't.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=2086&withagainst=true&season=2007-15&sit=5v5

Uh, Biega had to play with Luca Sbisa on a mediocre possession Canucks team.

Bartkowski played on a great possession team with a competent defender in Boychuk. Makes a world of difference. Notice that Bartkowski's CF% drops 3 percentage points when he's not playing with Boychuk.

 

[DL44]

Top end speed and acceleration is much less important than edgework and agility as a defender... Especially as a third pairing defender.

First off, I disagree on his top-end speed. He looks terrific winding it up to carry out of his zone.

Second, forward speed - despite looking nice - is the least important part of skating ability for a defender. The agility and edge work you talk about is FAR more important in terms of lateral mobility and gap control. And in that regard he excelled.

Also, I'm not the only person who felt this way - here are orcatown's comments after the last preseason game, which wasn't even his best :



Which is again spot on and exactly what I was seeing.

Hugely mobile, pushing the play hard with terrific gap control and anticipation.

And again, the notion that he 'got worse' as the preseason went along is just completely false. He got better. And vastly outplayed 3 guys who are on this team.

When you look at Biega's defensive fundamentals and gap control, and then compare it to those of Sbisa and Bartkowski ... it's just on a different level.

If that were true...

Our best skating mobile preseason defender with gap control and defensive fundamentals superior to Sbisa and Bartkowsky... then a player like that should easily get scooped on the waiver wire straight into another team's active roster... correct?

 

[VanJack]

When Ray Ferraro was in Utica last season watching his son Landon play in the AHL, he consistently said every time he went to a game the best Comet on the ice was Biega....I think if he has another big-year in Utica, he'll be called up in short order....Unlike Sanguinetti last year, now that the Canucks have seen Biega and have confidence in him, he'll be up as soon as the inevitable injuries hit.

 

[Scurr]

Uh, Biega had to play with Luca Sbisa on a mediocre possession Canucks team.

Bartkowski played on a great possession team with a competent defender in Boychuk. Makes a world of difference. Notice that Bartkowski's CF% drops 3 percentage points when he's not playing with Boychuk.

QOT is certainly important to possession numbers and to be fair to Biega 7 games is a poor sample size. Still, there is more to Bartkowski than "O gee… he skate good!".