Official Training Camp Roster Talk - Part II (The Final Stretch)

[CanaFan]

To be fair, Virtanen had 1 really good game and about 5 games where he was a complete non-factor and showed little.

That said, that one good game was impressive and I wouldn't have minded seeing more of him on the Horvat line for 9 games.

I'm not sure what being with Prust for 9 games is going to accomplish.

Well the goal he scored in his third was a "factor". I'll give you his first 2 games were "non factors" but since Game 3 he has looked stronger each game. The Sedin game was awkward but he was noticeable, the Edmonton game was very good, and last game (which I admit I missed) I hear he did well in a difficult position (4th line).

I'd look at his trendline more than just break his games into dichotomous "factor" or "non factor" games.

 

[Sharpshooter]

Edler/Sbisa sounds like a recipe for turnover city.

Yeah, I think it might a bit risky with those two, but I'm hoping that Sbisa can elevate his play a bit more, so as not to be the anchor weighing that particular pairing down.

Should be a roller-coaster ride.

 

[WonderTwinsUnite]

So refreshing to see this...I agree. Very hard to read stuff on here lately...

Then don't.

 

[TruGr1t]

Edler sbisa what

That being said, Tanev Hutton will be beautiful together.

Yeah, I've been intrigued by a Hutton-Tanev pairing since Hutton emerged in camp. That being said, I can't see the upside in Edler-Sbisa. It also essentially leaves us without a shut-down pair.

 

[rune74]

Also, it is not enough now for the narrative people have been spewing about how Benning has to justify his bad moves by doubling down (even though he has potentially bled a 2nd and 3rd already on his mistakes), now his own picks are supposedly involved with this narrative by the order they are picked?

It might be an interesting exercise to go through canucks history to see where our second round picks went...historicly I think they have been used to bring in players that are chances.

 

[DL44]

Great to see Weber as the extra. Exactly what i thought his preseason indicated he deserved at this point.

Having Weber as the 7th Dman going into a season is so much superior than having Stanton or Corrado.

Hutton's play bounced our depth up a big notch...

Love their moves... now I'm just hoping their out of the box trial of Sutter as the 3rd Sedin works... That's so crazy.

With Sutter taking the faceoffs... can we start writing it down as Sedin-Sutter-Sedin? heh

 

[rune74]

NVM....not worth it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yeah, I think it might a bit risky with those two, but I'm hoping that Sbisa can elevate his play a bit more, so as not to be the anchor weighing that particular pairing down.

Should be a roller-coaster ride.

Not to jump on the Sbisa hate-train, but he's more likely to disintegrate Edler's game than elevate his own.

Canucks have long had a dichotomy of offensively-challenged steady-freddies on the back end, coupled with swashbuckling high-octane idiots. We never seem to have enough steadies to babysit all the idiots we have back there at any given time. Right now we have Tanev and Hamhuis, which means somewhere there has to be a two-idiot pairing.

Highly likely that we see Edler-Tanev together to start the season though.

 

[Love]

Great to see Weber as the extra. Exactly what i thought his preseason indicated he deserved at this point.

Completely disagree. You can't only look at pre season and make a judgment about a veteran player. If we did that, half the vets on this team wouldn't have made it including the Sedins as they coasted through the pre season.

Weber scored 11 goals in 60 games last season. We NEED him on our PP.

 

[Jay Cee]

Great to see Weber as the extra. Exactly what i thought his preseason indicated he deserved at this point.

Having Weber as the 7th Dman going into a season is so much superior than having Stanton or Corrado.

Hutton's play bounced our depth up a big notch...

Love their moves... now I'm just hoping their out of the box trial of Sutter as the 3rd Sedin works... That's so crazy.

With Sutter taking the faceoffs... can we start writing it down as Sedin-Sutter-Sedin? heh

Agreed on Weber.

I didn't like our defense corps at all with him as a regular dman in a healthy lineup. #7 with the potential to come in for longish periods during the season is something I like a lot more. He is not crap, but he doesn't excite me at all.

I still can't believe Hutton might be a top 4 dman so early.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Completely disagree. You can't only look at pre season and make a judgment about a veteran player. If we did that, half the vets on this team wouldn't have made it including the Sedins as they coasted through the pre season.

Weber scored 11 goals in 60 games last season. We NEED him on our PP.

I agree with the sentiment, but Weber isn't exactly an established commodity in the NHL. Despite being 27 he's only got slightly more than 200 games played. He's still very much in the bubble stage of his career, as evidenced by his one year contract.

The Sedins could've spent the entire pre-season napping between periods and shooting on their own net and they'd have been lining up at center ice for game one.

 

[EpochLink]

Glad all 3 made it.

And people again over analyzing ****, even when good news happens people still complain.

 

[DL44]

Completely disagree. You can't only look at pre season and make a judgment about a veteran player. If we did that, half the vets on this team wouldn't have made it including the Sedins as they coasted through the pre season.

Weber scored 11 goals in 60 games last season. We NEED him on our PP.

Agreed.. And he will get back there. But it doesn't change the fact that his play in the preseason opened the door to audition Hutton in his spot.

Barthowsky skated miles, Sbisa's defensive game looks better, then you have Edler, Tanev and Hamhuis.... Weber was the one that slept walked thru the first few preseason games and played down to contract.

 

[Love]

I agree with the sentiment, but Weber isn't exactly an established commodity in the NHL. Despite being 27 he's only got slightly more than 200 games played. He's still very much in the bubble stage of his career, as evidenced by his one year contract.

The Sedins could've spent the entire pre-season napping between periods and shooting on their own net and they'd have been lining up at center ice for game one.

The reason Weber isn't established and is considered a "bubble guy" while Sbisa and Bartkowski (Bartkowski is the same age as Weber BTW, has only 131 games and a grad total of 0 goals) are considered locks is because Benning signed them.

There is no 2 ways about it. If Bart and Sbisa are on the opening night roster and Weber isn't it has absolutely nothing to do with who "deserves" to be there or not. Sbisa "deserves" to be waived over Corrado but of course that can't happen.

 

[arsmaster*]

I agree with the sentiment, but Weber isn't exactly an established commodity in the NHL. Despite being 27 he's only got slightly more than 200 games played. He's still very much in the bubble stage of his career, as evidenced by his one year contract.

The Sedins could've spent the entire pre-season napping between periods and shooting on their own net and they'd have been lining up at center ice for game one.

It's probably not the best to use games played or contract status as evidence on a players ability, ie. see #5.

I will agree, that Weber didn't show well in preseason, but neither did #44.

Biega outperformed everyone other than the top 3 and Hutton IMO.

 

[Vtownfan]

With Sutter taking the faceoffs... can we start writing it down as Sedin-Sutter-Sedin? heh

I doubt it. The Sedin line only scored last game After Sutter got removed from their line and Hansen drew in on the wing.

Sutter does not even come close to comparing to Hank at center. So far Sutter keeps reminding me of Mason Raymond. Skate really fast and shoot right into the goalies pads or chest, then fall down.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Well the goal he scored in his third was a "factor". I'll give you his first 2 games were "non factors" but since Game 3 he has looked stronger each game. The Sedin game was awkward but he was noticeable, the Edmonton game was very good, and last game (which I admit I missed) I hear he did well in a difficult position (4th line).

I'd look at his trendline more than just break his games into dichotomous "factor" or "non factor" games.

He also threw more hits than anyone in the pre-season. I don't think "non-factor" is apt at all. He struggled with the pace of the game at times, and could have been better, but he was making a positive impact in nearly every pre-season game one way or another. Usually physically and on the forecheck.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

New numbers also came in today.

Virtanen - 18
Hutton - 27
McCann - 91

Loving the 91. But not very 'meat and potatoes' of ya, Jared.

He would pick 19 if it's still available.

 

[arsmaster*]

He would pick 19 if it's still available.

Yup, the majority of NHLers who wear #91 wear it because it's the inverse of #19.

Shinkaruk plans to wear #90 if he ever gets here (if 9 is taken).

 

[Canucks LB]

The real surprise is Adam Cracknell, He came out of nowhere. He played solid, deserved a spot.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The reason Weber isn't established and is considered a "bubble guy" while Sbisa and Bartkowski (Bartkowski is the same age as Weber BTW, has only 131 games and a grad total of 0 goals) are considered locks is because Benning signed them.

Oh god, this nonsense again? Who said I was pro-Sbisa or Bartowski?

You argued that Weber's poor pre-season should be hand-waved because he was "a veteran". He's not exactly the kind of "veteran" player who can hand-wave the pre-season and still be considered a lock for the regular season based on the strength of his past accomplishments, because aside from the last half of the last season with the Canucks he was considered a replacement level player.

It's probably not the best to use games played or contract status as evidence on a players ability, ie. see #5.

Had I used it as an assessment of his ability, I would agree. I did not. I used it as a challenge to the statement that Weber is a "veteran" and his poor pre-season should be excused as a result. The example given as a comparison point was the poor pre-season by the Sedins.

I've long advocated that strong rookie and weak veteran performances in the pre-season should be taken with a grain of salt...the former are fighting for spots, the latter are going through the motions and trying not to get injured. I don't see Weber as a guy guaranteed his spot going into this season. You could argue he is given our lousy defensive depth, but his contract and veritable dearth of any kind of track record suggests he's not the most secure player.

 

[MS]

Edler Sbisa isn't the best pairing, but it's better than Hutton Sbisa. Hutton with Tanev could be excellent, Tanev makes everyone better, no harm in trying that for a few games. If it doesn't work, though, we should go back to Edler Tanev since they were one of the best D pairings last year.

The problem with this is that it leaves either a rookie with 0 NHL games or Luca Sbisa on your shutdown pairing.

Gaudreau and Hudler must be drooling.

Well the goal he scored in his third was a "factor". I'll give you his first 2 games were "non factors" but since Game 3 he has looked stronger each game. The Sedin game was awkward but he was noticeable, the Edmonton game was very good, and last game (which I admit I missed) I hear he did well in a difficult position (4th line).

I'd look at his trendline more than just break his games into dichotomous "factor" or "non factor" games.

I didn't think the Sedin game was very good, and I didn't think his last game really showed anything (although obviously he was with linemates who were skating in molasses).

To me, he had 1 game in 6 where he looked like a quality NHL player.

And again, I'm not against keeping him ... if you play him with Horvat. But playing him with Prust and Cracknell is just utterly pointless.

Agreed.. And he will get back there. But it doesn't change the fact that his play in the preseason opened the door to audition Hutton in his spot.

Barthowsky skated miles, Sbisa's defensive game looks better, then you have Edler, Tanev and Hamhuis.... Weber was the one that slept walked thru the first few preseason games and played down to contract.

Bartkowski started the preseason well in his first two games and then fell off badly. Was a trainwreck in his last game. His defensive zone coverage looks awful.

Sbisa was one of the worst players on the ice in every game but one.

Weber outplayed both. Although, to be fair, Biega outplayed all three.

 

[CanaFan]

He also threw more hits than anyone in the pre-season. I don't think "non-factor" is apt at all. He struggled with the pace of the game at times, and could have been better, but he was making a positive impact in nearly every pre-season game one way or another. Usually physically and on the forecheck.

Exactly. I try to evaluate rookies on two things:

1. Do they look overwhelmed?
2. Do they show progress as pre-season/season continues?

You never want to put a kid in a situation where they look overwhelmed, either physically or mentally as that is the worst thing for their development.

And if they look rough in Game 1 but better in Game 6, I'd factor that in as well. Kids like Jake, McCann, and Hutton are learning things that vets take for granted. It shouldn't be surprising then when they struggle for a few games as they tackle this huge learning curve.

If Jake looked the same in Game 6 as in Game 1 then 100% you send him back to junior. But if he is looking more comfortable and noticeable in each game, then you throw Game 1 or 2 out as learning curve and focus your evaluation on the later games.

Surprises me to hear people saying "invisible" or "non-factor" about his games, even outside of the Edmonton game. First what are your expectations for a 19 year old kid who isn't Connor McDavid? Second, if Jake was invisible, then what were the Sedins, Burrows, Vrbata, Sutter, etc in most of those games?

 

[Jay Cee]

The real surprise is Adam Cracknell, He came out of nowhere. He played solid, deserved a spot.

I agree.

I like him infinitely more as an extra forward than a Sestito who was as bad as we thought he would be from the beginning. He was good in scrums and gave a mean face wash, but he couldn't play hockey and he just was there to hold his own against good fighters.

 

[Love]

Oh god, this nonsense again? Who said I was pro-Sbisa or Bartowski?

You argued that Weber's poor pre-season should be hand-waved because he was "a veteran". He's not exactly the kind of "veteran" player who can hand-wave the pre-season and still be considered a lock for the regular season based on the strength of his past accomplishments, because aside from last season with the Canucks he considered a replacement level player.

Whatever Sbisa and Bart did this preseason/last season does not trump what Weber did this preseason/last season.