Official Training Camp Roster Talk - Part II (The Final Stretch)

[CanaFan]

I didn't think the Sedin game was very good, and I didn't think his last game really showed anything (although obviously he was with linemates who were skating in molasses).

To me, he had 1 game in 6 where he looked like a quality NHL player.

And again, I'm not against keeping him ... if you play him with Horvat. But playing him with Prust and Cracknell is just utterly pointless.

I'd say he looked like a quality NHL scorer in that game, and looked like a 19 year old kid learning his way but holding his own in the other games (outside of Game 1-2). Given that this is his first camp and preseason, I think those are reasonable expectations and reasons to keep him on the team. Horvat did less in his preseason (though to be fair probably doesn't stay up without the injury in the last game of preseason) and the results of that early confidence were rewarded a few months later.

 

[arsmaster*]

Oh god, this nonsense again? Who said I was pro-Sbisa or Bartowski?

You argued that Weber's poor pre-season should be hand-waved because he was "a veteran". He's not exactly the kind of "veteran" player who can hand-wave the pre-season and still be considered a lock for the regular season based on the strength of his past accomplishments, because aside from last season with the Canucks he considered a replacement level player.

Nobody said you were anything.

I don't know why you're getting defensive from that post.

Straight up, the guy said that the only reason Weber isn't in the top 6 is because he's not Benning's guy. IMO, he's onto something. Universally, everyone agrees that Sbisa is a candidate for being punted to the moon, and Bartkowski is less established than Weber.

Easy does it with the sensitivity.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Lets be real: even Sbisa-Doughty would be an awful pairing. Just hope Huttanev play 35 mins/game.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Whatever Sbisa and Bart did this preseason/last season does not trump what Weber did this preseason/last season.

Your hated of Sbisa and Bartowski does absolutely nothing to strengthen your argument that Weber is a "veteran" and thus his pre-season performances aren't admissible. We are arguing two different things.

I don't know why you're getting defensive from that post.

Straight up, the guy said that the only reason Weber isn't in the top 6 is because he's not Benning's guy. IMO, he's onto something. Universally, everyone agrees that Sbisa is a candidate for being punted to the moon, and Bartkowski is less established than Weber.

Easy does it with the sensitivity.

Read above.

Additionally, please do not conflate exasperation with "sensitivity".

 

[arsmaster*]

Your hated of Sbisa and Bartowski does absolutely nothing to strengthen your argument that Weber is a "veteran" and thus his pre-season performances aren't admissible. We are arguing two different things.



Read above.

Additionally, please do not conflate exasperation with "sensitivity".

Oh god not this ...who said i was this.....

Neither Sbisa nor Bartkowski performed well this preseason....poster was bang on when he referenced Bartkowski's age and games played (you went there first).

Anyways, not a huge deal, but I didn't see much from any of those 3 guys and to be fair, if they were waived so Biega could have spot, I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash

 

[Love]

Your hated of Sbisa and Bartowski does absolutely nothing to strengthen your argument that Weber is a "veteran" and thus his pre-season performances aren't admissible. We are arguing two different things.



Read above.

Additionally, please do not conflate exasperation with "sensitivity".

First off I don't hate Sbisa. Compared to the rest of this board I would be described as a Sbisa lover.

I don't understand why you're getting so riled up. I never even accused you of believing one thing or another. I just thought it was weird when you used Weber not being an established NHLer as an argument considering the guys he's competing for jobs with are less established.

 

[Love]

Oh god not this ...who said i was this.....

Neither Sbisa nor Bartkowski performed well this preseason....poster was bang on when he referenced Bartkowski's age and games played (you went there first).

Anyways, not a huge deal, but I didn't see much from any of those 3 guys and to be fair, if they were waived so Biega could have spot, I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash

Exactly.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Oh god not this ...who said i was this.....

Neither Sbisa nor Bartkowski performed well this preseason....poster was bang on when he referenced Bartkowski's age and games played (you went there first).

Anyways, not a huge deal, but I didn't see much from any of those 3 guys and to be fair, if they were waived so Biega could have spot, I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash

None of Bartowski, Weber or Sbisa has a track record to indicate they should feel comfortable gassing the pre-season. Sbisa's contract, however, and the perpetual (and baffling) faith he is shown by management suggests he is well entrenched. Therefore Weber, Bartowski, Corrado, Hutton, etc should have all been considered bubble players fighting for a limited number of spots.

I debated the assertion that Weber was a "veteran" and that his performance should have been overlooked in the same way we would overlook the Sedins. That is all I said. In return, I was treated to a debate over the relative quality of Weber to "Bennings favorites" and conspiratorial sidebar about how those players would be assured spots because he acquired them. Which was both utterly beside the point and completely in keeping with my earlier complaint about the quality of discourse on these forums lately.

Does that clear things up?

 

[arsmaster*]

None of Bartowski, Weber or Sbisa has a track record to indicate they should feel comfortable gassing the pre-season. Sbisa's contract, however, and the perpetual (and baffling) faith he is shown by management suggests he is well entrenched. Therefore Weber, Bartowski, Corrado, Hutton, etc should have all been considered bubble players fighting for a limited number of spots.

I debated the assertion that Weber was a "veteran" and that his performance should have been overlooked in the same way we would overlook the Sedins. That is all I said. In return, I was treated to a debate over the relative quality of Weber to "Bennings favorites" and conspiratorial sidebar about how those players would be assured spots because he acquired them. Which was both utterly beside the point and completely in keeping with my earlier complaint about the quality of discourse on these forums lately.

Does that clear things up?

I understood what you were getting at, it was the suggestion the other poster was full of nonsense for suggesting the veteran Weber had more/less to prove than Bartkowski.

All 3 sucked in reality, all 3 should be 6-8's.

Bart being ahead of Weber is solely because of who brought him in.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I understood what you were getting at, it was the suggestion the other poster was full of nonsense for suggesting the veteran Weber had more/less to prove than Bartkowski.

All 3 sucked in reality, all 3 should be 6-8's.

Bart being ahead of Weber is solely because of who brought him in.

Honestly, after Weber's performance in the playoffs last spring I would've put Bartowski ahead of him too.

I also would've put Biega ahead of him and waived Sbisa, but I'm not in charge, so my opinion on the subject isn't worth a hill of beans.

 

[Jay Cee]

Don't corsi people like Bart?

 

[PM]

So Sbisa is not a top-4 defenseman anymore, he's a top-2 defenseman now! He is going to get an astounding amount of minutes if he stays in that spot with Edler. Gulp.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

I wonder if the youngin's are going to get big boy numbers now. McCanns 51 has grown on me already and Jake should keep 77 too.

 

[WinterEmpire]

So Sbisa is not a top-4 defenseman anymore, he's a top-2 defenseman now! He is going to get an astounding amount of minutes if he stays in that spot with Edler. Gulp.

It's amazing how big contracts can transform someone's play. I can't wait until Sutter is the top centre

 

[Jay Cee]

I wonder if the youngin's are going to get big boy numbers now. McCanns 51 has grown on me already and Jake should keep 77 too.

91 and 18 respectably is where they are going as I guess has been reported by numerous sources.

 

[MS]

So Sbisa is not a top-4 defenseman anymore, he's a top-2 defenseman now! He is going to get an astounding amount of minutes if he stays in that spot with Edler. Gulp.

I'm not entirely sure how anyone can actually watch the preseason (never mind all of last season) and come to the conclusion that the worst player on the ice was terrific and deserves to be on a shutdown pairing.

It should just be an automatic that Edler and Tanev stay together. But the only good thing out of this is that Hutton doesn't have to play with Sbisa.

 

[PM]

Our defense is such a gong show if they stick to those pairings. Sbisa on the first pairing (!) with Edler who doesn't play well beside anyone not named Chris Tanev. Oh and Sbisa is on his off-side.

Hamhuis on the third pairing (?) with Bartowski, also on his offside. Lets call this the "should never have an o-zone start all year" pairing. I predict 2 goals from these guys combined all year.

Hutton with Tanev. I like this one but also thought that Hutton - Biega would be better, freeing up Tanev to play with Edler who should never be separated.

Biega and Weber as spares. How Weber still hasn't earned a legitimate spot is beyond me. He's bad defensively but no worse than Sbisa. He probably scores more goals than Sbisa, Bartowski, Hamhuis and Edler combined this year (if he gets to play). Our only right handed shot who should ever be near a powerplay. Biega has been better than Bartowski but Benning likes his old projects.

 

[arttk]

Our defense is such a gong show if they stick to those pairings. Sbisa on the first pairing (!) with Edler who doesn't play well beside anyone not named Chris Tanev. Oh and Sbisa is on his off-side.

Hamhuis on the third pairing (?) with Bartowski, also on his offside. Lets call this the "should never have an o-zone start all year" pairing. I predict 2 goals from these guys combined all year.

Hutton with Tanev. I like this one but also thought that Hutton - Biega would be better, freeing up Tanev to play with Edler who should never be separated.

Biega and Weber as spares. How Weber still hasn't earned a legitimate spot is beyond me. He's bad defensively but no worse than Sbisa. He probably scores more goals than Sbisa, Bartowski, Hamhuis and Edler combined this year (if he gets to play). Our only right handed shot who should ever be near a powerplay. Biega has been better than Bartowski but Benning likes his old projects.

Wait, what when did Edler-Sbisa became a thing?

 

[WTG]

Wait, what when did Edler-Sbisa became a thing?

Let's hope not

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Wait, what when did Edler-Sbisa became a thing?

It was the pairing at practice today or something.

Stands to reason we'll stick with it through thick and thin all year.

 

[Nucker101]

Wait, what when did Edler-Sbisa became a thing?

That pairing would be a disaster

 

[arsmaster*]

Just keep Hamhuis away from Sbisa, will degrade his deadline value 10-fold.

 

[jrlp]

He's not being dramatic. If you haven't noticed the volume of the negativity in here the last few months, you either approve or haven't been paying attention.

I'm a cynical person by nature and given to expecting worse-case scenarios, and I find reading this forum both depressing and annoying. The former because the negativity spiral people are engaged in paints the most hilariously hopeless picture imaginable (just yesterday I was reading about how "Golden Boy" Vey would be gifted scads of ice time and block the progression of youth for years), the latter because outside of a very few people the vast majority of it is poorly thought out, poorly expressed, and veritably thundering with confirmation bias and well poisoning. It's the hockey equivalent of going to a photography forum to listen to a bunch of people howl about how someone took a picture and stole their soul.

To suggest every single posted has "applauded" this news is disingenuous. Quite a few paid it lip service before launching into yet another refreshing spiel about the evils of management. Linden's comment regarding Virtanen is already considered fresh evidence of their almost limitless appetite for crimes, as he was "clearly not ready". At the same time, people are blasting the fact he's presently the 13th forward.

Now naturally a forum is comprised of many individuals, and I don't pretend this is evidence of hypocrisy in any one of them. It's more an overall pattern of "Find something, ANYTHING, to ***** about, no matter what the situation". It's exhausting.

Agreed, it's negativity bias on max, and if our goal is to have a forum that's open AND enjoyable and interesting, it's counter-productive. And it's a bummer.

 

[Hansen]

Oh dear god... Edler/sbisa?

@HockeyAbbs: refresher on #Canucks lines 22-33-21/47-53-17/14-91-36/9-24-15 D' 23-5/60-8/2-44 extras appear to be Virtanen/Weber with both 30/25 in nets

For every step forward there must be a step back

 

[DL44]

This amount of Biega love isn't justified if you watched him very closely as the preseason progressed.

His effectiveness dropped off as games went along, he he just doesn't have NHL wheels.

He displayed great instincts and played much more aggressively than last yr... but his wheels - just not good enough and his strength in puck battles in the d zone not good enough.

He is a great story tho... and he'll be a very serviceable call up.

He now have some decent D depth to call up in what initially looked like a glaring hole..
Beyond the top 7, we can callup Corrado, Biega, Fedun as our 8th, 9th, and 10th Dmen.