OT: Official COVID-19 Thread

[thestonedkoala]

with a control group that shows a cloth mask prevents covid from spreading and doesnt increase your risk of getting the virus.

Can face masks protect against the coronavirus?

Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.

Nothing is going to prevent, but helping to slow down the spread can ultimately end up preventing needless deaths.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

Face masks: what the data say

Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

 

[TaLoN]

This video clearly shows how the viral load is going to drop significantly on what others are exposed to. Viral load is a major factor on becoming infected.

Lower viral load exposure, lower risk of infection, lower risk of infection, slower it spreads.

 

[GuerinUp]

Can face masks protect against the coronavirus?



Nothing is going to prevent, but helping to slow down the spread can ultimately end up preventing needless deaths.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

Face masks: what the data say

Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

I ask for labratory experiments with control groups and you give me observational studies and opinion articles.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I ask for labratory experiments with control groups and you give me observational studies and opinion articles.

https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

I'll even make it easy for you:
A comparison of homemade and surgical masks for bacterial and viral aerosols (21) observed that "the median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks. Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask." Research focused on aerosol exposure has found all types of masks are at least somewhat effective at protecting the wearer. Van der Sande et al (33) found that"all types of masks reduced aerosol exposure, relatively stable over time, unaffected by duration of wear or type of activity",and concluded that "any type of general mask use is likelyt o decrease viral exposure and infection risk on a population level, despite imperfect fit and imperfect adherence".

 

[GuerinUp]

https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

I'll even make it easy for you:
A comparison of homemade and surgical masks for bacterial and viral aerosols (21) observed that "the median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks. Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask." Research focused on aerosol exposure has found all types of masks are at least somewhat effective at protecting the wearer. Van der Sande et al (33) found that"all types of masks reduced aerosol exposure, relatively stable over time, unaffected by duration of wear or type of activity",and concluded that "any type of general mask use is likelyt o decrease viral exposure and infection risk on a population level, despite imperfect fit and imperfect adherence".

thank you for posting something ill actually read as a lab article. now heres the part that is the issue

"In a laboratory setting, household materials had 3% to 60% filtration rate for particles in the relevant size range, finding them comparable to some surgical masks." Youre going to suggest an entire nation wear an article of cloth that may only prevent 3% of particles, which has shown to increase your chance of contracting sickness in articles that i have posted, to "potentially" minimize risk to a small number of individuals compared to the general public.

 

[HotDish]

to this date i have yet to see 1 article posted from you guys placed in a randomized labratory setting, with a control group that shows a cloth mask prevents covid from spreading and doesnt increase your risk of getting the virus. I have however posted 2, that state otherwise

masks_lit_review.pdf (fast.ai)

edit: I see it has been posted already

 

[HotDish]

thank you for posting something ill actually read as a lab article. now heres the part that is the issue

"In a laboratory setting, household materials had 3% to 60% filtration rate for particles in the relevant size range, finding them comparable to some surgical masks." Youre going to suggest an entire nation wear an article of cloth that may only prevent 3% of particles, which has shown to increase your chance of contracting sickness in articles that i have posted, to "potentially" minimize risk to a small number of individuals compared to the general public.

". Generally available household materials had between a 49% and 86% filtration rate for 0.02 µm exhaled particles whereas surgical masks filtered 89% of those particles"

"When considering the relevance of these studies of ingress, it’s important to note that they are likely to substantially underestimate effectiveness of masks for source control. When someone is breathing, speaking, or coughing, only a tiny amount of what is coming out of their mouths is already in aerosol form. Nearly all of what is being emitted is droplets. Many of these droplets will then evaporate and turn into aerosolized particles that are 3 to 5-fold smaller. The point of wearing a mask as source control is largely to stop this process from occurring, since big droplets dehydrate to smaller aerosol particles that can float for longer in air (26)."

"An important focus of analysis for public mask wearing is droplet source control. This refers to the effectiveness of blocking droplets from an infectious person, particularly during speech, when droplets are expelled at a lower pressure and are not small enough to squeeze through the weave of a cotton mask. Many recommended cloth mask designs also include a layer of paper towel or coffee filter, which could increase filter effectiveness for PPE, but does not appear to be necessary for blocking droplet emission ("

"Based on our detailed discussion above, cloth masks have not been shown to increase the risk of infection in people using them compared to not wearing any mask."

 

[GuerinUp]

". Generally available household materials had between a 49% and 86% filtration rate for 0.02 µm exhaled particles whereas surgical masks filtered 89% of those particles"

"When considering the relevance of these studies of ingress, it’s important to note that they are likely to substantially underestimate effectiveness of masks for source control. When someone is breathing, speaking, or coughing, only a tiny amount of what is coming out of their mouths is already in aerosol form. Nearly all of what is being emitted is droplets. Many of these droplets will then evaporate and turn into aerosolized particles that are 3 to 5-fold smaller. The point of wearing a mask as source control is largely to stop this process from occurring, since big droplets dehydrate to smaller aerosol particles that can float for longer in air (26)."

"An important focus of analysis for public mask wearing is droplet source control. This refers to the effectiveness of blocking droplets from an infectious person, particularly during speech, when droplets are expelled at a lower pressure and are not small enough to squeeze through the weave of a cotton mask. Many recommended cloth mask designs also include a layer of paper towel or coffee filter, which could increase filter effectiveness for PPE, but does not appear to be necessary for blocking droplet emission ("

"Based on our detailed discussion above, cloth masks have not been shown to increase the risk of infection in people using them compared to not wearing any mask."

this was not in a labratory setting. reread the article. the part i wrote was. and as i posted yesterday, the risk of wearing a cloth mask WAS increased, and tested in MULTIPLE trials, in a LAB

 

[HotDish]

this was not in a labratory setting. reread the article. the part i wrote was. and as i posted yesterday, the risk of wearing a cloth mask WAS increased, and tested in MULTIPLE trials, in a LAB

The detailed discussion says it doesn't.

 

[GuerinUp]

The detailed discussion says it doesn't.

A discussion, is not a lab result. I can discuss how a persons not at risk for diabetes, take a blood test and see that shows hes starting to reject insulin.

 

[Minnewildsota]

A discussion, is not a lab result. I can discuss how a persons not at risk for diabetes, take a blood test and see that shows hes starting to reject insulin.

I just want to get this straight.

You: Provide proof! If you provide proof I'll consider it.
Us: Here's the proof
You: That's not the right kind of proof! Once you provide the "right" proof, I'll consider it.
Us: Well, how about that
You: Well, I don't agree with it because this other article states otherwise, so I'm not considering it.

Does that accurately sum up how this conversation has gone?

 

[HotDish]

A discussion, is not a lab result. I can discuss how a persons not at risk for diabetes, take a blood test and see that shows hes starting to reject insulin.

It is a discussion that has 96 references. I think that is plenty enough to come up with that conclusion.

 

[GuerinUp]

I just want to get this straight.

You: Provide proof! If you provide proof I'll consider it.
Us: Here's the proof
You: That's not the right kind of proof! Once you provide the "right" proof, I'll consider it.
Us: Well, how about that
You: Well, I don't agree with it because this other article states otherwise, so I'm not considering it.

Does that accurately sum up how this conversation has gone?

no, I read your article. which stated that cloth masks can help reduce viral loads, which in a labratory setting stated can be as low as 3% effective, which surprisingly corresponded with the 3% effectiveness the article i posted yesterday found. The same article i posted found that wearing a cloth mask can increase your own personal risk of developing sickness from viruses. Then using logic, deduced that having an entire nation wear cloth masks to prevent a spread of a virus that is detrimental to the health of a small number of the general public, yet increases risk to the mask wearer, is rediculous. Whether you choose to agree with labratory data is your choice.

 

[HotDish]

I just want to get this straight.

You: Provide proof! If you provide proof I'll consider it.
Us: Here's the proof
You: That's not the right kind of proof! Once you provide the "right" proof, I'll consider it.
Us: Well, how about that
You: Well, I don't agree with it because this other article states otherwise, so I'm not considering it.

Does that accurately sum up how this conversation has gone?

Ignore the flat earth part haha.

 

[GuerinUp]

View attachment 378501

Ignore the flat earth part haha.

ya except, i posted evidence before asking for it, and have focused entirely on labratory results.

 

[HotDish]

ya except, i posted evidence before asking for it, and have focused entirely on labratory results.

I'm not the one that have be refuting arguments against with fallacies like my favorite one I've seen so far that you haven't defended when pressed on.

You said Kat's mom could've gotten killed in a car accident the next day. Using occam's razor we can say that Kat's mom would most likely be alive if she didn't get Covid.

 

[GuerinUp]

I'm not the one that have be refuting arguments against with fallacies like my favorite one I've seen so far that you haven't disputed.

It isn't a big deal Kat's mom died since she could've gotten killed in a car accident the next day. Using occam's razor we can say that Kat's mom would most likely be alive if she didn't get Covid.

Pretty sure i didnt say this part.

 

[HotDish]

Pretty sure i didnt say this part.

Your right I'll change my post, but point still stands. Do you believe Kat's mom would be alive today if she didn't get covid? because you said she could've gotten hit by a car the same day. do you think those chances are high?

 

[GuerinUp]

Your right I'll change my post, but point still stands. Do you believe Kat's mom would be alive today if she didn't get covid? because you said she could've gotten hit by a car the same day. do you think those chances are high?

I wasnt stating there was zero chance shed be alive today, i was refuting your claim that she would have been alive had covid not existed. Tons of people die every day In 2017, an average of 7,708 deaths occurred each day in the US. pre-covid. QuickStats: Average Daily Number of Deaths, by Month — United States,

 

[Northerner]

A famous quote from Mahatma Gandhi springs to mind here: 'the true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members'.

That's cute. You realize the most vulnerable Americans are the working class, right? The ones busting their backs to live check to check?

 

[HotDish]

I wasnt stating there was zero chance shed be alive today, i was refuting your claim that she would have been alive had covid not existed. Tons of people die every day In 2017, an average of 7,708 deaths occurred each day in the US. pre-covid. QuickStats: Average Daily Number of Deaths, by Month — United States,

Coronavirus US: COVID named number one killer of Americans (news.com.au)

 

[GuerinUp]

Coronavirus US: COVID named number one killer of Americans (news.com.au)

Oh, so death rates have gone down in the US since covid? Im sure australia is a good source for US deaths. Because the way i see it with a rolling average of 7800 deaths a day vs your average daily covid deaths this year, theres still alot more deaths than just covid.

"As of December 8, 2020, an average of around 905.9 people per day have died from COVID-19 in the U.S. since the first case was confirmed in the country on January 20th. On an average day, nearly 8,000 people die from all causes in the United States, based on data from 2019."

U.S. COVID-19 average deaths by day | Statista

 

[HotDish]

Heart disease was American's number one killer at around 2,200 per day. Today Covid-19 killed more than 2,200. AS it stand right now you are more likely to see a Covid death in America instead of any other death. Doesn't mean it was always that way and doesn't mean it will stay that way, but right now it is the leading killer in the USA.

 

[thestonedkoala]

So to sum up the last 2 and a half pages;

I don't want to wear a mask, because of my personal freedoms and any data that the government, government-backed scientists, scientists provide is questionable and screw everyone else? Also people die, big whoop?

 

[GuerinUp]

Heart disease was American's number one killer at around 2,200 per day. Today Covid-19 killed more than 2,200. AS it stand right now you are more likely to see a Covid death in America instead of any other death. Doesn't mean it was always that way and doesn't mean it will stay that way, but right now it is the leading killer in the USA.

I understand that, what you arent understanding however is youre still much more likely to die each day from something that is not covid related than is.