Official Bernier/Reimer Thread 1.0 - Optimus Reim vs Mega Jon

[MajorityRules*]

We are not "rooting" for one goalie (at least I am not). I'm rooting for team success. However, if I feel our team will have more success with one goalie and not the other (and thus have a better chance of making the playoffs) then I will comment on it.

That being said, Bernier has (basically) done nothing wrong, however, Reimer has almost as many wins as Bernier in half the amount of games. So if I feel our team is currently more successful with Reimer, I would like to ride it out to see how many wins we can get when he's on this roll.

This has nothing to do with Bernier. When he is in the net, I'll be one of his biggest supporters as I am with Reimer. But team success is what matters most to me and one goalie's results are clearly better and more beneficial to the team.

So far both goalies are contributing to the teams success. Guess Carlyle should just keep doing what he's doing in playing them both.

 

[William Hylander]

Bernier will still win the job. Reimer is improving on rebounds very slowly, but he still has a tendency to completely lose the puck and create scrambles on nothing shots. He looks bewildered at times in the net, the demeanour of Bernier leads me to believe that he won't have the inconsistency issues that a scrambling puck stopper like Reimer will have.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

We are not "rooting" for one goalie (at least I am not). I'm rooting for team success. However, if I feel our team will have more success with one goalie and not the other (and thus have a better chance of making the playoffs) then I will comment on it.

That being said, Bernier has (basically) done nothing wrong, however, Reimer has almost as many wins as Bernier in half the amount of games. So if I feel our team is currently more successful with Reimer, I would like to ride it out to see how many wins we can get when he's on this roll.

This has nothing to do with Bernier. When he is in the net, I'll be one of his biggest supporters as I am with Reimer. But team success is what matters most to me and one goalie's results are clearly better and more beneficial to the team.

Well said. Hence my comments earler that say what you will about HOW Reimer gets it done, at the end of the day he gets it done. So we play whoever is getting it done until they aren't getting it done.

Two goalies over .930? Works for me.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Wow have you seen Reimer's stats.

1.99
.949

But then he's already been a starter, became one when he beat out Giguere in 2010-2011. Only lost it to injury, and then took it back the next year.

I think Reimer's style is to goaltending numbers what the Maple Leafs are to CORSI. You know it shouldn't work but it does.

 

[I Am The Stig]

At this point the "goaltending battle" has pretty much been boiled down to "Who's style do you prefer the most". We can both agree that both goalies have been playing outstanding while bringing a different style to the crease. It's either you prefer Bernier's calmness in net or Reimer's blocking style but we can all agree that each style works for their respective goalie.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I hope they keep both goalies for many reasons.

I would love to see them sign Reimer right now for say a 3 year deal for the same salary as Bernier. Would send a very good message to everyone.



If they do trade one, there better be something really amazing coming back in return.

 

[TML 13]

I hope they keep both goalies for many reasons.

I would love to see them sign Reimer right now for say a 3 year deal for the same salary as Bernier. Would send a very good message to everyone.



If they do trade one, there better be something really amazing coming back in return.

I don't think it's possible to keep both. Neither will be happy splitting the workload. If you look at VAN and MTL, they eventually had to trade their 1b's, and got great value for them. Reimer playing well is the best case scenario. A young #1 like him can demand alot from teams desperate for goalies. I have full confidence in Nonis to make the right trade regarding Reimer. When he gets traded, it will be a good trade.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think it's possible to keep both. Neither will be happy splitting the workload. If you look at VAN and MTL, they eventually had to trade their 1b's, and got great value for them. Reimer playing well is the best case scenario. A young #1 like him can demand alot from teams desperate for goalies. I have full confidence in Nonis to make the right trade regarding Reimer. When he gets traded, it will be a good trade.

We don't have to keep them both forever, but we could keep both until say trade deadline next year no problem. There is some precedent for having to #1 calibre goalies on one team for a time, Furh/Moog and Moog/Ranford in EDM. Richter/Van Biesbrouck in NY are the first ones that come to mind. In those situations, 80 starts a year was enough to establish good trade value for both goalies.

Reasons I would rather not make the trade this year:

Everyone (including you) seems to think Reimer is the one to go, I'd rather that decision not be made yet. Bernier looks good, but the sample size is still small. How many games has he played for us? How many in his NHL career? What if we trade Reimer tomorrow, and a year from now we regret it? Maybe Reimer is the one we should choose. I'm not 100% comfortable with either one yet for different reasons. Keeping both is insurance in case of injury, and also greatly increases the chance that someone will establish themselves as an elite #1 NHL goalie. And IMO this is the most important point, getting value back in an eventual trade is important, but most important, is that we keep the right guy!

Neither one of them may be 100% happy sharing the job - tough. They'll live with it for a while. And it's not like either one has so much success on their resume that they can command an elite level salary or insist that they be made #1 or be traded.

It's very possible that one and only one of these guys ends up as an elite goalie. Until we are pretty sure we know which one it is (or that it's both), why rush it?

I can't stress this enough. Deciding to cast off Reimer or Bernier is a huge decision. I want to be 100% sure that we don't pick the wrong one and that alone is enough reason to hold off for a long while.

 

[zeke]

Leafs' Win/Loss pace per goalie, last 5yrs:

1. J.Reimer: 57-32-14, 128pts = 82gms, 102pts
2. J.Bernier: 5-4-0, 10pts = 82gms, 91pts
3. J.Giguere: 17-18-6, 40pts = 82gms, 80pts
4. J.Gustavsson: 39-45-15, 93pts = 77pts
5. B.Scrivens: 11-14-2, 24pts = 82gms, 73pts
6. V.Toskala: 7-12-3, 17pts = 82gms, 63pts
7. J.MacDonald: 1-4-0, 2pts = 82gms, 33pts
8. J.Rynnas: 0-1-0, 0pts = 82gms, 0pts

 

[Ratboy]

Bernier is the better goalie, but that doesn't mean Reimer isn't any good.

My biggest issue with Reimer is how he looks like he's having a seizure nearly everytime there's a shot on net, the guy has to calm down in there. It doesn't invoke confidence by any means.

 

[zeke]

Sometimes I think people would like a goalie more if he was beat cleanly top shelf than if he manages to get a piece of it with his upper arm and then bobbles it down to the ice.

The goalie that missed the puck entirely would actually look better than the guy who saved it.

 

[Ratboy]

Sometimes I think people would like a goalie more if he was beat cleanly top shelf than if he manages to get a piece of it with his upper arm and then bobbles it down to the ice.

The goalie that missed the puck entirely would actually look better than the guy who saved it.

I'd prefer one that doesn't get beaten by his own technique. Reimer has the tendency to overplay situations, which can be pretty disastrous at times.

Berniers technique is what gives him the advantage over the long term. Then again Reimer could be some non-athletic Hasek and stop pucks just because he wants to. His style perplexes me.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Bernier is the better goalie, but that doesn't mean Reimer isn't any good.

My biggest issue with Reimer is how he looks like he's having a seizure nearly everytime there's a shot on net, the guy has to calm down in there. It doesn't invoke confidence by any means.

For me, the sample size is way too small to have 100% confidence in Bernier. I mean he has look good and everything, but how can you possibly say with any confidence he is the better goalie?

As far as invoking confidence goes, Reimer's invoked plenty in the last 2 games if you ask me.

Just amazing how little respect Reimer gets. Doesn't look good, no glove hand, rebounds etc. All the guy does is stop the puck and win games. Good enough for me.

 

[zeke]

I'd prefer one that doesn't get beaten by his own technique. Reimer has the tendency to overplay situations, which can be pretty disastrous at times.

you have an interesting definition of the word "disastrous".

bobbling pucks isn't disastrous.

his career so far has been anything but disastrous.

Berniers technique is what gives him the advantage over the long term. Then again Reimer could be some non-athletic Hasek and stop pucks just because he wants to. His style perplexes me.

There's really no evidence that more traditional-technique goaltending like Bernier's is an advantage over the shotblocking technique that Reimer uses.

They're both very effective techniques. One is prettier than the other, but not necessarily more effective.

 

[zeke]

Another thing that bugs me is when fans confuse "bobbling the puck" or even "dropping the puck" with "bad rebounds".

bobbling the puck and even dropping it at your feet is not a bad rebound. it doesn't take you out of position and it usually doesn't give the other team a great scoring chance.

a bad rebound is when you boot the puck AWAY from you into dangerous areas of the ice, leaving yourself out of position for the next save.

I think far too many people see Reimer bobbling a puck that hits him up high and thinks "bad rebound", when it's actually not.

 

[Ratboy]

Another thing that bugs me is when fans confuse "bobbling the puck" or even "dropping the puck" with "bad rebounds".

bobbling the puck and even dropping it at your feet is not a bad rebound. it doesn't take you out of position and it usually doesn't give the other team a great scoring chance.

a bad rebound is when you boot the puck AWAY from you into dangerous areas of the ice, leaving yourself out of position for the next save.

I think far too many people see Reimer bobbling a puck that hits him up high and thinks "bad rebound", when it's actually not.

It's more that he isn't good at handling the puck in general. He's getting better at it though.

 

[Paradoc]

Good job by Reimer. Really impress me with his game yesterday. However, that doesn't mean Bernier is out yet. I feel like when he's on his game, he can be like a brick wall.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

It's fine to have a preference of one goalie over the other, but I don't understand the slagging of the other one as if they aren't good. Just think that the alternative right now would be Ben Scrivens. I'll gladly take this situation of two #1 goalies pushing each other, putting up ridiculous stats, and backstopping the Leafs to victory. And if one stumbles, the other one is more than capable of picking up the slack. Again, the alternative could be a lot worse.

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

Good job by Reimer. Really impress me with his game yesterday. However, that doesn't mean Bernier is out yet. I feel like when he's on his game, he can be like a brick wall.

Let's hope that they're both on their game more often than not. Regardless of who's between the pipes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I've heard a lot of people complain that Reimer has a weak glove hand and gives up too many rebounds. For one thing, neither has been a big issue so far this year, but the other things is that you can look at it the other way - there are things that Reimer can work on, and perhaps be even better. I mean if the guy has no glove hand and can't control rebounds and is still stopping shots at an all-star rate ... just think of how good he could be if he improves on those weaknesses. IMO, we still don't know how good Reimer is. And having said that, the idea that we could possibly accurately say how good Bernier is with such a small sample size laughable. How many playoff games has Bernier played? Who considers him to be a proven quantity?

If I had to decide today who to keep, I honestly haven't a clue who I would pick. They both look potentially so good maybe flip a coin. That being the case, I am absolutely thrilled that we don't have to pick one yet and have the very excellent option of keeping both until at least the trade deadline and why not until next year's trade deadline which is another way of saying is that don't trade one until you are 99.9% sure that the guy we keep will be elite.

We haven't had elite goaltending for so long, let's not forget what life without it is like. The worst thing we could possibly do is trade one guy, and then at some point in the not too distant future regret that move and have goaltending be an issue again. So few teams have the luxury of reliable, elite goaltending. For the moment, we're one of the lucky few. Let's not f..k it up!

"Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make"

 

[The Reaper]

Good job by Reimer. Really impress me with his game yesterday. However, that doesn't mean Bernier is out yet. I feel like when he's on his game, he can be like a brick wall.

When Reims is on his game he is a brick wall

 

[Ratboy]

Hey, I'm glad we have two good goalies that will push eachother and give this team more wins.

I just think Bernier is the better goalie. Opinion.

 

[WillNyeTheHockeyGuy]

I think Reimer's style is to goaltending numbers what the Maple Leafs are to CORSI. You know it shouldn't work but it does.

That's single-handedly the best description of Reimer ever. It's so true. His style and the way he looks on the ice looks so out of place sometimes, but no matter what, he'll get the job done. Our CORSI is terrible yet we're 1st in the East. What?

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

This thread is going to be a trainwreck when he lose a game.

 

[Ratboy]

Knowing our luck, trading one will ensure the other turns into the next Pogge.