Official Bernier/Reimer Thread 1.0 - Optimus Reim vs Mega Jon

happyaccident

Registered User
May 14, 2013
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I was surprised with the Bernier trade and had argued against it when it was suggested on this board numerous times last season. I didn't have anything against Bernier, I just felt he had nothing on Reimer.

I like Reimer. I like his personality and I like his Giguere-esque style as a long time Giguere fan.

However, it was clear to me the moment the deal was announced, that Bernier was not acquired to be a back-up. Regardless of who we on this board like better, unless his play is awful it seems obvious to me that Nonis wants Bernier to be the guy.
I mean if you have a plate full of Pizza sitting in front of you, and you decide to order in Chinese food...odds are you will eat the Chinese food.

Having watched Bernier for a few games, I definitely prefer him hands down, and the reasons are not about the results of a few games. That's sort of ridiculous.
The reasons are because he is better with rebounds, a better puck handler, has better mobility, has better positioning. I don't think these were flukes for the few games he has played. I think they indicate the type of goalie he is.

Both have great attitudes, and both have the ability to battle. Both give the Leafs the best goaltending they have had since Belfour.

Now lets suppose Nonis did trade for Bernier because he had this crazy idea that he was going to be the starter. Does this mean Reimer must be traded?
I"m not so sure.
Reimer is obviously very very good, and he is cheap.
If we would need a goalie coming back I wouldn't be in too big a rush to deal him.
I think we have the best one-two punch in net in the league right now, it isn't costing much, and I see it as a good thing.
Unless some team made an offer we couldn't refuse, or Reimer starts being a problem in the locker room (which would be very out of character), I wouldn't rush to deal him at all.

So while I think Bernier was brought in to start and ultimately will, and I do prefer his game, I'm pretty happy with either in net.

Puckhandling and rebound control, sure. Don't know how you came to those other conclusions.
Everything that's not puckhandling or rebound control, Reimer excels in. Bernier is better at positioning? What conceivable evidence is there for that at this point?
 

scooter87

Registered User
Mar 22, 2013
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There's one thing Bernie has over Reims. Bernie knows how to throw down :yo:

Until I see Reimer taking swings at Price, Bernie is my number 1
 

Quares27

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Apr 3, 2013
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Our goaltending situation is kind of funny. Now they have no other choice but to go with Reimer the next game. It's a nice problem to have though.

We play back to backs so they don't really have to go with Reimer on Tuesday. FWIW Dreger said it looks like Bernier Tuesday and Reimer Wednesday.
 

Paradoc

John Tavares is a Leaf!
Mar 13, 2013
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Can I get a link where Carlyle has said that Reimer is in a backup role? It all comes down to you yourself deciding that Reimer had a backup role 12 games into the season.

Carlyle has played each goalie thus far based on history v/s opponent. Reimer getting run over by Leivo, and battling flu meant any coach would start the other goalie. If you are still going to justify your titles of 'backup role' 12 games into the season based on number of starts, good on you. I am not here to change anyone's opinion.

Your actually bashing me for my opinion? :laugh:

Look, we all know Reimer was in a backup role type of situation since Bernier had more starts than him. I was just saying how he played well for a goaltender who was in a backup role. I can't we're actually arguing this. :shakehead And like I said why would I say something negative when we just won?
 

Penalty Kill Icing*

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Your actually bashing me for my opinion? :laugh:

Look, we all know Reimer was in a backup role type of situation since Bernier had more starts than him. I was just saying how he played well for a goaltender who was in a backup role. I can't we're actually arguing this. :shakehead And like I said why would I say something negative when we just won?

Again. You are the only one claiming that. I don't see anyone else agreeing with you on that one. 5/7 split in starts, in 12 games thus far doesn't scream starter role/backup role to me. Add to the fact that a goalie was injured and was sick for a few days in there.

But then, I saw your avatar and figured you'd know better about how backup and starter role terminology would work.

P.S.: By your logic, was Reimer the starter and Bernier had the 'backup role' as you call it, after the Montreal game? :confused:
 

Ari91

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Nov 24, 2010
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Toronto
We play back to backs so they don't really have to go with Reimer on Tuesday. FWIW Dreger said it looks like Bernier Tuesday and Reimer Wednesday.

I think most, if not all back-backs will be split (barring no injury to either goalie) so I expect Bernier to get a start in Alberta. However, I think it would be a nice way to reward Reimer by giving him the consecutive start.
 

Ari91

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Nov 24, 2010
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Toronto
Again. You are the only one claiming that. I don't see anyone else agreeing with you on that one. 5/7 split in starts, in 12 games thus far doesn't scream starter role/backup role to me. Add to the fact that a goalie was injured and was sick for a few days in there.

But then, I saw your avatar and figured you'd know better about how backup and starter role terminology would work.

P.S.: By your logic, was Reimer the starter and Bernier had the 'backup role' as you call it, after the Montreal game? :confused:

I had misunderstood that comment by Altaris as well. I think what he means is that Bernier has been in net for 75% of the Leaf games played so far this season. Bernier has been leaned on move heavily to start the season (and not based solely on his play but also unlucky circumstances for Reimer such as the Leivo collision and him getting sick). It's created the situation where Reimer has yet to successfully appear in two consecutive starts. In fairness, the circumstances of the situation so far has had Reimer sitting on the bench more often then playing in net, hence the comment about him being in the back-up role. Also keep in mind that before the Pens game, Bernier played in 7 of the last 8 games they Leafs had.

You can assume it as a jab at Reimer because he used the term back-up OR you can assume it as a compliment to Reimer that he's sat on the bench for most of the games this season yet when given the opportunity, he played admirably and reminded everyone that he's not going to just hand the net over to Bernier.
 

spidergoalie

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Aug 9, 2009
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Puckhandling and rebound control, sure. Don't know how you came to those other conclusions.
Everything that's not puckhandling or rebound control, Reimer excels in. Bernier is better at positioning? What conceivable evidence is there for that at this point?

Watching them both play.
Reimer gets caught swimming out of position more than Bernier does.
Bernier is up faster than Reimer, hence has better mobility and better positioning.

Because Bernier is not really a blocking goalie, he is less locked into position and is more able to adapt to changing situations smoothly, whereas for Reimer it tends to be more scrambly.

Reimer plays a very Allaire blocking butterfly approach. I mean really he is pretty textbook Allaire, and I mean that in a completely complementary way. So I'm not suggesting he has poor positioning in general at all.
His only weaknesses in that area is sometimes he retreats to keeping his butt on the goal line. I think this is a tendency many goalies have when they are not too confident either in themselves, or their D. I think in Reimer's case he was at his worst for this following the Gionta hit, and I will always maintain that was the issue for that season.
And secondly sometimes he over commits to one side, goes into a bf, and then gets caught swimming to get back in position.

However, even if we say you are right and I am wrong. If both goalies are pretty equal but one is better at controlling rebounds, and puck handling, doesn't that pretty much mean you are better with that one? I mean rebound control is not just some trivial thing in the art of goaltending.


I think Zeke's stats pretty much show that they are on par with each other, and so any extreme siding with one over the other is probably not warranted at this point.
Still Nonis pursued and brought Bernier in for a reason. That straight up doesn't happen if he were completely satisfied with Reimer.
I'm not arguing this because I slightly prefer Bernier at this point, but simply because the actions of Nonis make it clear to me what his intentions are and his preference is.
That said I think I would be pretty annoyed if Reimer doesn't get the next start. He was nothing short of fantastic Saturday.
 

happyaccident

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May 14, 2013
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Watching them both play.
Reimer gets caught swimming out of position more than Bernier does.
Bernier is up faster than Reimer, hence has better mobility and better positioning.

Because Bernier is not really a blocking goalie, he is less locked into position and is more able to adapt to changing situations smoothly, whereas for Reimer it tends to be more scrambly.

Reimer plays a very Allaire blocking butterfly approach. I mean really he is pretty textbook Allaire, and I mean that in a completely complementary way. So I'm not suggesting he has poor positioning in general at all.
His only weaknesses in that area is sometimes he retreats to keeping his butt on the goal line. I think this is a tendency many goalies have when they are not too confident either in themselves, or their D. I think in Reimer's case he was at his worst for this following the Gionta hit, and I will always maintain that was the issue for that season.
And secondly sometimes he over commits to one side, goes into a bf, and then gets caught swimming to get back in position.

However, even if we say you are right and I am wrong. If both goalies are pretty equal but one is better at controlling rebounds, and puck handling, doesn't that pretty much mean you are better with that one? I mean rebound control is not just some trivial thing in the art of goaltending.


I think Zeke's stats pretty much show that they are on par with each other, and so any extreme siding with one over the other is probably not warranted at this point.
Still Nonis pursued and brought Bernier in for a reason. That straight up doesn't happen if he were completely satisfied with Reimer.
I'm not arguing this because I slightly prefer Bernier at this point, but simply because the actions of Nonis make it clear to me what his intentions are and his preference is.
That said I think I would be pretty annoyed if Reimer doesn't get the next start. He was nothing short of fantastic Saturday.

I appreciate your points, I'm not sold on Bernier being better in those other areas yet, just because I haven't seen him enough yet.
Reimer does seem to play a little further back, certainly at those times in the past when he's struggled, I haven't seen that being a problem lately.
True enough, all other things being equal, puckhandling and rebound control gives Bernier the advantage. I'm not convinced all other things are equal yet. People always harp on Reimer's weaknesses but he puts up great numbers and wins lots of games, he's doing something right. Quickness, lateral movement, his size combined with his blocking style, he does a lot of things superbly.
Steve Simmons (will listen to him once in a while) said off-season how "management" was tired of Reimer's (2) weaknesses and the length of time it took to come back from injury. Combined with Carlyle's comments (4:00 mark), I'm convinced that Carlyle had everything to do with the big goalie search that began last year and puts Reimer in the same basket as Liles and Grabovski ie. the #1 job is Bernier's to lose as far as he's concerned. That's just mho.
 

TML 13

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Oct 19, 2013
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I appreciate your points, I'm not sold on Bernier being better in those other areas yet, just because I haven't seen him enough yet.
Reimer does seem to play a little further back, certainly at those times in the past when he's struggled, I haven't seen that being a problem lately.
True enough, all other things being equal, puckhandling and rebound control gives Bernier the advantage. I'm not convinced all other things are equal yet. People always harp on Reimer's weaknesses but he puts up great numbers and wins lots of games, he's doing something right. Quickness, lateral movement, his size combined with his blocking style, he does a lot of things superbly.
Steve Simmons (will listen to him once in a while) said off-season how "management" was tired of Reimer's (2) weaknesses and the length of time it took to come back from injury. Combined with Carlyle's comments (4:00 mark), I'm convinced that Carlyle had everything to do with the big goalie search that began last year and puts Reimer in the same basket as Liles and Grabovski ie. the #1 job is Bernier's to lose as far as he's concerned. That's just mho.


Wow. I have never seen this. If this is the case then Reimer is in his final year as a leaf. I knew Leiweke ( CEO) is very fond of him, and that Nonis was eager to acquire him. But I thought Carlyle had no preference. If management is completely on Bernier's side then his job is safe.
 

Confucius

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Feb 8, 2009
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I think most, if not all back-backs will be split (barring no injury to either goalie) so I expect Bernier to get a start in Alberta. However, I think it would be a nice way to reward Reimer by giving him the consecutive start.

Normally I might agree but last time against Edmonton Reimer got blown out and Bernier shut the door.
 

The Reaper

Men of Mayhem
Dec 29, 2010
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Normally I might agree but last time against Edmonton Reimer got blown out and Bernier shut the door.

Reimer hasn't played Edmonton yet this season

It was Bernier and he wasn't very good in that game


PS: I hope Reims signs with another team in the off-season and have him make us regret that decision of letting him go
 

Babscocks

Registered User
Jan 7, 2011
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Reimer hasn't played Edmonton yet this season

It was Bernier and he wasn't very good in that game


PS: I hope Reims signs with another team in the off-season and have him make us regret that decision of letting him go


Doubt we would be letting either goalie go as a FA. To much trade value and Reims isn't exactly do up for a massive payday
 

Penalty Kill Icing*

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@Charon of Styx: You mixed up Ottawa with Edmonton there.

I had misunderstood that comment by Altaris as well. I think what he means is that Bernier has been in net for 75% of the Leaf games played so far this season. Bernier has been leaned on move heavily to start the season (and not based solely on his play but also unlucky circumstances for Reimer such as the Leivo collision and him getting sick). It's created the situation where Reimer has yet to successfully appear in two consecutive starts. In fairness, the circumstances of the situation so far has had Reimer sitting on the bench more often then playing in net, hence the comment about him being in the back-up role. Also keep in mind that before the Pens game, Bernier played in 7 of the last 8 games they Leafs had.

You can assume it as a jab at Reimer because he used the term back-up OR you can assume it as a compliment to Reimer that he's sat on the bench for most of the games this season yet when given the opportunity, he played admirably and reminded everyone that he's not going to just hand the net over to Bernier.

Thanks for clearing it up. :)

I want to put an end to it anyways (this discussion I mean).
 

Rants Mulliniks

Registered User
Jun 22, 2008
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So who gets the start tomorrow?
Good arguments could be made either way, and I'm happy with either, but if he isn't tired I'd go with Reimer again.

If we're letting goalies roll, 80/81 says probably Reimer. Not sure of each's historicals vs the opponent though.
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
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Toronto, ON
The logical choice would be to start Bernier vs Calgary tonight.

Here's the problem: Carlyle doesn't seem to agree with what the norm wants.

Bernier hasn't done anything to not be given a chance to start, but at the same time, Reimer has done more than enough to say that he gets the ball while its rollin.

I think you also have to take into account that the Leafs don't play again until saturday and then again not until almost a week after. So there is a lot of time to rest and a lot of time for one goalie not to play.
 

TobyWong

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Jul 21, 2010
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I really wonder what if some of you guys are actually Leafs fans. They are both great goalies and they both give the team a chance to win on any given night. Why are some people rooting against one or the other?
 

deleteme24

Leafs for cup
Sep 20, 2009
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I really wonder what if some of you guys are actually Leafs fans. They are both great goalies and they both give the team a chance to win on any given night. Why are some people rooting against one or the other?

THIS!!!

I love Bernier more than Reimer, but I won't EVER bash against a fellow Leafs. Isn't the the point of all this is winning games?? Please, let us not do a Montreal situation of us (Price/Halak) and let the good times roll.
 

ULF_55

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Wow have you seen Reimer's stats.

1.99
.949

But then he's already been a starter, became one when he beat out Giguere in 2010-2011. Only lost it to injury, and then took it back the next year.
 

Atomos2

Registered User
Jun 28, 2012
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Toronto, Ontario
I really wonder what if some of you guys are actually Leafs fans. They are both great goalies and they both give the team a chance to win on any given night. Why are some people rooting against one or the other?

We are not "rooting" for one goalie (at least I am not). I'm rooting for team success. However, if I feel our team will have more success with one goalie and not the other (and thus have a better chance of making the playoffs) then I will comment on it.

That being said, Bernier has (basically) done nothing wrong, however, Reimer has almost as many wins as Bernier in half the amount of games. So if I feel our team is currently more successful with Reimer, I would like to ride it out to see how many wins we can get when he's on this roll.

This has nothing to do with Bernier. When he is in the net, I'll be one of his biggest supporters as I am with Reimer. But team success is what matters most to me and one goalie's results are clearly better and more beneficial to the team.
 

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