Official Bernier/Reimer Thread 1.0 - Optimus Reim vs Mega Jon

[Smif]

I was surprised with the Bernier trade and had argued against it when it was suggested on this board numerous times last season. I didn't have anything against Bernier, I just felt he had nothing on Reimer.

I like Reimer. I like his personality and I like his Giguere-esque style as a long time Giguere fan.

However, it was clear to me the moment the deal was announced, that Bernier was not acquired to be a back-up. Regardless of who we on this board like better, unless his play is awful it seems obvious to me that Nonis wants Bernier to be the guy.
I mean if you have a plate full of Pizza sitting in front of you, and you decide to order in Chinese food...odds are you will eat the Chinese food.

Having watched Bernier for a few games, I definitely prefer him hands down, and the reasons are not about the results of a few games. That's sort of ridiculous.
The reasons are because he is better with rebounds, a better puck handler, has better mobility, has better positioning. I don't think these were flukes for the few games he has played. I think they indicate the type of goalie he is.

Both have great attitudes, and both have the ability to battle. Both give the Leafs the best goaltending they have had since Belfour.

Now lets suppose Nonis did trade for Bernier because he had this crazy idea that he was going to be the starter. Does this mean Reimer must be traded?
I"m not so sure.
Reimer is obviously very very good, and he is cheap.
If we would need a goalie coming back I wouldn't be in too big a rush to deal him.
I think we have the best one-two punch in net in the league right now, it isn't costing much, and I see it as a good thing.
Unless some team made an offer we couldn't refuse, or Reimer starts being a problem in the locker room (which would be very out of character), I wouldn't rush to deal him at all.

So while I think Bernier was brought in to start and ultimately will, and I do prefer his game, I'm pretty happy with either in net.

You just explained myself to a T as well. I didn't want Bernier and wasn't happy when we acquired him. Now, I prefer him in the net over Reims. They both get the job done, but I trust an athletic styled goalie over the "get-big" styled tender. It's 100% preference at this point.

 

[TML 13]

You just explained myself to a T as well. I didn't want Bernier and wasn't happy when we acquired him. Now, I prefer him in the net over Reims. They both get the job done, but I trust an athletic styled goalie over the "get-big" styled tender. It's 100% preference at this point.

Curious as to why some leafs fans disliked the trade. I was ecstatic personally as I always wanted Bernier .Bernier projects to be an elite goalie. LA fans were happy with him. They knew he was good and was getting better. It looked like a steal at the time and I couldn't understand the hate it got

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

You weren't following the PGT that much yesterday night. I answered this question like twice.

Edit: Just look at this.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=73310621&postcount=350

Can I get a link where Carlyle has said that Reimer is in a backup role? It all comes down to you yourself deciding that Reimer had a backup role 12 games into the season.

Carlyle has played each goalie thus far based on history v/s opponent. Reimer getting run over by Leivo, and battling flu meant any coach would start the other goalie. If you are still going to justify your titles of 'backup role' 12 games into the season based on number of starts, good on you. I am not here to change anyone's opinion.

 

[jomas]

"Mega Jon"
I don't know why I laughed so much at this, but I did, it meshes better them Optimus Reim IMO.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

One thing that Leafs fans or naysayers can't say anything badly about is the goaltending. Both netminders have over .930 save percentage and stats are nearly identical. Goaltending and special teams has been a big reason for the big success thus far. Leafs do need to clean it up a little defensively, especially the giveaways, but they're on the right track. If only we could ice a healthy team, now Bozak, Lupul, Kulemin, Fraser out... soon, I hope!

 

[CellarDweller0]

Dunno about Bernier, but someone on twitter said a few days back that if Reimer keeps letting those rebounds out and still has that sv%, then he is better goalie than his save % indicate because rebounds are even tougher to contain.

Found the tweet:

Draglikepull ‏@draglikepull 18 Oct
Retweeted by James Mirtle

https://twitter.com/draglikepull/status/391191373388328962

So Reimer is better because he gives the opposition a higher number of quality opportunities to score? I don't think I would subscribe to this logic. I think I would rather have a goalie that reduces the # of quality chances by good positional play and doesn't have to make saves on his own rebounds.

For the record I haven't decided who I would consider the #1 yet.

 

[TML 13]

Now lets suppose Nonis did trade for Bernier because he had this crazy idea that he was going to be the starter. Does this mean Reimer must be traded?
I"m not so sure.
Reimer is obviously very very good, and he is cheap.
If we would need a goalie coming back I wouldn't be in too big a rush to deal him.
I think we have the best one-two punch in net in the league right now, it isn't costing much, and I see it as a good thing.
Unless some team made an offer we couldn't refuse, or Reimer starts being a problem in the locker room (which would be very out of character), I wouldn't rush to deal him at all.

So while I think Bernier was brought in to start and ultimately will, and I do prefer his game, I'm pretty happy with either in net.

I believe that one or the other should be traded. And with Reimer as a RFA with an expiring contract I'm guessing him. Reimer will help the team more by bringing in assets than playing ~20 games

 

[Lucky Leaf]

I have noticed Bernier brings a calming presence to the net because of his positional play while Reimer battles hard and makes you sit on the edge of your seat more. The calming presence is nice but I have also noticed Bernier lets in more bad goals than Reimer. The only reason his save % is so high is because of how badly the Leafs get out shot.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Our goaltending situation is kind of funny. Now they have no other choice but to go with Reimer the next game. It's a nice problem to have though.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

So Reimer is better because he gives the opposition a higher number of quality opportunities to score? I don't think I would subscribe to this logic. I think I would rather have a goalie that reduces the # of quality chances by good positional play and doesn't have to make saves on his own rebounds.

For the record I haven't decided who I would consider the #1 yet.

Probably better than the record indicates. That is what the tweet meant. Looks like the person meant that Reimer is good with high quality chances.

For me, that wasn't intended to compare goalies. I am not going to do that. And btw, I was just the messenger on that one.

 

[7even]

Both our goalies are putting up .930 goaltending. It's beautiful :')

 

[MajorityRules*]

This thread is hilarious.

I can't believe people are spending more time arguing for one goaltender or another than they are enjoying the fact that we have both, and they're both playing well.

Have to agree with you. If they keep playing the way they have then this is the best problem the Leafs could hope to have.

The arguing is pretty silly but then again, it's what I expect from here.

I hope they challenge each other all year and Carlyle is faced with picking the "right guy" no matter who he chooses.

 

[CellarDweller0]

Probably better than the record indicates. That is what the tweet meant. Looks like the person meant that Reimer is good with high quality chances.

For me, that wasn't intended to compare goalies. I am not going to do that. And btw, I was just the messenger on that one.

Never meant my reply to be a shot at you, hope it didn't come across like that. Just wanted to state that I wouldn't use that to compare JR to JB but you've cleared that up. I guess it a valid point but it is a strange way to look at things.

One thing is for sure, Reimer has certainly proven that he is up for battling for the net.

 

[legendinblue]

Please let this not turn into Price/Halak 2.0.

 

[RASHBEEP]

I was surprised with the Bernier trade and had argued against it when it was suggested on this board numerous times last season. I didn't have anything against Bernier, I just felt he had nothing on Reimer.

I like Reimer. I like his personality and I like his Giguere-esque style as a long time Giguere fan.

However, it was clear to me the moment the deal was announced, that Bernier was not acquired to be a back-up. Regardless of who we on this board like better, unless his play is awful it seems obvious to me that Nonis wants Bernier to be the guy.
I mean if you have a plate full of Pizza sitting in front of you, and you decide to order in Chinese food...odds are you will eat the Chinese food.

Having watched Bernier for a few games, I definitely prefer him hands down, and the reasons are not about the results of a few games. That's sort of ridiculous.
The reasons are because he is better with rebounds, a better puck handler, has better mobility, has better positioning. I don't think these were flukes for the few games he has played. I think they indicate the type of goalie he is.

Both have great attitudes, and both have the ability to battle. Both give the Leafs the best goaltending they have had since Belfour.

Now lets suppose Nonis did trade for Bernier because he had this crazy idea that he was going to be the starter. Does this mean Reimer must be traded?
I"m not so sure.
Reimer is obviously very very good, and he is cheap.
If we would need a goalie coming back I wouldn't be in too big a rush to deal him.
I think we have the best one-two punch in net in the league right now, it isn't costing much, and I see it as a good thing.
Unless some team made an offer we couldn't refuse, or Reimer starts being a problem in the locker room (which would be very out of character), I wouldn't rush to deal him at all.

So while I think Bernier was brought in to start and ultimately will, and I do prefer his game, I'm pretty happy with either in net.

Spot on

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Points percentage is a TEAM stats, not an individual one. If that was the case, then most GM's would want Fleury over someone like Rinne.

When one is playing on a Cup contender and the other a bottom feeder, it should give you pause for thought, no?

 

[Hanta Yo]

Please let this not turn into Price/Halak 2.0.

What do you mean exactly? In my mind at least, it's inevitable that the situation is going down that same road. In the near future, Nonis is going to have to choose which goalie will be the clear cut number 1 for the franchise moving forward.

 

[legendinblue]

What do you mean exactly? In my mind at least, it's inevitable that the situation is going down that same road. In the near future, Nonis is going to have to choose which goalie will be the clear cut number 1 for the franchise moving forward.

I was referring more to the bickering and the huge fanbase divide the Price/Halak saga caused. Wouldn't like to see that happen on our board, that's all.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Nothing can be concluded from their careers, or this season to date.

I'm sorry, you'll just have to wait.

Why the **** would that matter right now? It's like saying Bishop is better than Lundqvuist because he has produced the better results to date. Lets just wait till the end of the year before we start judging both goalies.

Of course we haven't reached the conclusion to date. That in no way prevents us from observing that one person has produced superior results to date.

I'm not sure if you guys think this is some nefarious scheme or what? It's simple statement of fact. When one guy has played, the team results have been better than when the other has played.

We all know it's with different teams. We all know Bernier has some technical advantages. Yet we can't ignore that for whatever reason, Reimer just wins games. His frozen glove and constant dropping off his feet annoys me to no end but for whatever reason, he just gets it done. There's been a lot of great goalies who make a lot of saves they have no business making, guys who are doing things that are very non-standard. Guys that just win and win again.

If anything this reminds me of the shift between Cujo and Belfour. Two completely contrasting goalies. I for one hope they both do well. That said, I'm not going to toss one guy aside simply because of "looks". We're after results, so let it play out.

 

[TML 13]

What do you mean exactly? In my mind at least, it's inevitable that the situation is going down that same road. In the near future, Nonis is going to have to choose which goalie will be the clear cut number 1 for the franchise moving forward.

This is what will happen. We won't keep both. People like to think this is a healthy competition but this will become a problem sooner or later. MTL wanted Price to know he's the guy. They didn't want to pile on the pressure. Price was outplayed but stayed because he has more potential and was favoured by management.

 

[Atomos2]

I was surprised with the Bernier trade and had argued against it when it was suggested on this board numerous times last season. I didn't have anything against Bernier, I just felt he had nothing on Reimer.

I like Reimer. I like his personality and I like his Giguere-esque style as a long time Giguere fan.

However, it was clear to me the moment the deal was announced, that Bernier was not acquired to be a back-up. Regardless of who we on this board like better, unless his play is awful it seems obvious to me that Nonis wants Bernier to be the guy.
I mean if you have a plate full of Pizza sitting in front of you, and you decide to order in Chinese food...odds are you will eat the Chinese food.

Having watched Bernier for a few games, I definitely prefer him hands down, and the reasons are not about the results of a few games. That's sort of ridiculous.
The reasons are because he is better with rebounds, a better puck handler, has better mobility, has better positioning. I don't think these were flukes for the few games he has played. I think they indicate the type of goalie he is.

Both have great attitudes, and both have the ability to battle. Both give the Leafs the best goaltending they have had since Belfour.

Now lets suppose Nonis did trade for Bernier because he had this crazy idea that he was going to be the starter. Does this mean Reimer must be traded?
I"m not so sure.
Reimer is obviously very very good, and he is cheap.
If we would need a goalie coming back I wouldn't be in too big a rush to deal him.
I think we have the best one-two punch in net in the league right now, it isn't costing much, and I see it as a good thing.
Unless some team made an offer we couldn't refuse, or Reimer starts being a problem in the locker room (which would be very out of character), I wouldn't rush to deal him at all.

So while I think Bernier was brought in to start and ultimately will, and I do prefer his game, I'm pretty happy with either in net.

You make some good points and if that type of play leads us into the playoffs, then I will be ecstatic. But only if it leads us into the playoffs. This is a results orientated business. And at the end of the day, getting the win is what is most important.

The way Bernier plays is comforting for sure, but its the results that will be analyzed and written in the media. Bernier has played well, but his results for the moment do not scream playoff calibre results. (Yes I am aware that it is a small sample size and if/when it changes positively, I will give him all due respect)

This is definitely not my final judgement. Whether or not we make the playoffs, will be what I will base my assessment on.

 

[zeke]

Career

J.Reimer (25): 109gms, .916sv%
J.Bernier (25): 71gms, .915sv%

Last 2yrs

J.Reimer (25): 38gms, .925sv%
J.Bernier (25): 23gms, .925sv%

This Season

J.Reimer (25): 5gms, .933sv%
J.Bernier (25): 9gms, .930sv%

 

[zeke]

Active Career SV%, current starters or platoon goalies:


1.T.Rask (26): 147gms, .928
2.C.Schneider (27): 104gms, .927
3.T.Thomas (39): 384gms, .921
4.B.Holtby (24): 67gms, .921
5.H.Lundqvist (31): 518gms, .920
6.R.Luongo (34): 757gms, .919
7.P.Rinne (31): 302gms, .919
8.J.Howard (29): 243gms, .918
9.A.Niemi (30): 224gms, .918
10.J.Hiller (31): 283gms, .917
11.J.Halak (28): 228gms, .917
12.S.Bobrovsky (25): 131gms, .917
13.N.Backstrom (35): 374gms, .916
14.C.Price (26): 320gms, .916
15.J.Reimer (25): 109gms, .916
16.R.Miller (33): 509gms, .915
17.K.Lehtonen (30): 385gms, .915
18.C.Anderson (32): 327gms, .915
19.J.Bernier (25): 71gms, .915
20.J.Quick (27): 297gms, .914
21.S.Varlamov (25): 155gms, .914
22.M.Smith (31): 274gms, .913
23.C.Crawford (29): 161gms, .913
24.B.Bishop (27): 53gms, .913
25.E.Nabokov (38): 655gms, .912
26.D.Dubnyk (27): 148gms, .911
27.M.Fleury (29): 476gms, .910
28.C.Ward (29): 439gms, .910
29.O.Pavelec (26): 242gms, .907
30.S.Mason (25): 247gms, .905
31.J.MacDonald (33): 128gms, .903
32.J.Markstrom (23): 40gms, .902
33.K.Ramo (27): 53gms, .895

 

[deleteds2mb]

They're going to trade Reimer, it is just a matter of when.

Nonis didn't trade for Bernier to have him back-up Reimer.

the point of this trade was so that they can gamble for an upgrade in net but at the same time do not get worse than reimer.
you could say that the deal was so that they get a better backup goalie - whether that's reimer or bernier, it's up to the coaching staff and it's very unlikely they're going to let either go.
as far as i can tell right now, bernier looks better but reimer has gotten better results.

 

[Pi]

I prefer Bernier in net, I like both goalies. No bias, just preference.

There are qualities in both goalies that make them #1 goalies, I just think Bernier is a high end goalie.