Official 2023 Coyotes OFF Season Discussion

[Half Clapper]

Bill Armstrong's horniness for size is going to f*** this roster over.

Lameroux: I can't see this kid ever making the NHL. I think this is a career AHLer. If he wasn't 6'8, I don't think he goes in the first 3 rounds.

Taking Daniil But over an NHL talent right now at #12 was a massive mistake. Benson is a much better player than But, and will be for as long as the sun shines. I hate these old-school GMs who still value size so much, especially for forwards. I don't give a f*** if we have smaller forwards already, not drafting Benson is the biggest mistake that this organization has made since BA was put on as GM. Benson is keller / Cooley level good. Daniil But, if he pans out to his potential is prob a top 6 forward, who will most likely end up a 3rd line guy.

Our forward group opening night, if we drafted Benson.

Keller (5'10) - Hayton(6'1) - Schmaltz(6'0)
Macelli(5'11) - Cooley(5'11) - Benson(5'10)
Zucker(5'11) - Bjugstad(6'6) - Crouse(6'4)
Kerfoot(5'11) - Mcbain(6'3) - Guenther(6'2)
Sanford(6'4)

No player under 5'10, and still a sprinkle of big boys in the bottom 6. Plus you add Sanford instead of Kerfoot, and your bottom 6 is looking big. That is a playoff-level forward group right there.

There is no excuse for this scouting group, considering we know they watched Benson lots, with Geekie being there.

 

[Mosby]

That premise isn’t at all premature. Nope.

 

[Kai Yo T]

There is no excuse for this scouting group

Haha. How many years of professional scouting experience is on your resume?

Trying to figure what side to take.

 

[hbk]

Bill Armstrong's horniness for size is going to f*** this roster over.

Lameroux: I can't see this kid ever making the NHL. I think this is a career AHLer. If he wasn't 6'8, I don't think he goes in the first 3 rounds.

Taking Daniil But over an NHL talent right now at #12 was a massive mistake. Benson is a much better player than But, and will be for as long as the sun shines. I hate these old-school GMs who still value size so much, especially for forwards. I don't give a f*** if we have smaller forwards already, not drafting Benson is the biggest mistake that this organization has made since BA was put on as GM. Benson is keller / Cooley level good. Daniil But, if he pans out to his potential is prob a top 6 forward, who will most likely end up a 3rd line guy.

Our forward group opening night, if we drafted Benson.

Keller (5'10) - Hayton(6'1) - Schmaltz(6'0)
Macelli(5'11) - Cooley(5'11) - Benson(5'10)
Zucker(5'11) - Bjugstad(6'6) - Crouse(6'4)
Kerfoot(5'11) - Mcbain(6'3) - Guenther(6'2)
Sanford(6'4)

No player under 5'10, and still a sprinkle of big boys in the bottom 6. Plus you add Sanford instead of Kerfoot, and your bottom 6 is looking big. That is a playoff-level forward group right there.

There is no excuse for this scouting group, considering we know they watched Benson lots, with Geekie being there.

For every But and Simashev BA has drafted a Fabbri,Cooley, Thomas, Kyrou. But and Simashev are intriguing. I had Bensen higher on my list and remain impressed with his preseason. That neing said i really hated how much of a step back i saw in Bensen’s play after he was hit hard (and dirty) when he came back for the playoffs.

 

[Half Clapper]

Haha. How many years of professional scouting experience is on your resume?

Trying to figure what side to take.

Guess what? Being a scout with 20 years of experience doesn't mean these guys all of a sudden are perfect. I have an eye for talent, but will never get an opportunity to scout for an NHL roster, due to connections. For every great guy Bill Armstrong drafted, you fail to mention the ones he f***ed up on. Those include Rundbland at #17, Schmaltz at #25, Bokk at #25, and Schwarz at #17 in his first year. Also Erik Johnson was first overall in 06 when guys like Toews, J Staal, Backstrom went right after and ended up being all better players. One of them being a hall of famer.

BA does have a great track record, but let's not kid ourselves and act like every player he drafts in the first round is going to be gold.

For every But and Simashev BA has drafted a Fabbri,Cooley, Thomas, Kyrou. But and Simashev are intriguing. I had Bensen higher on my list and remain impressed with his preseason. That neing said i really hated how much of a step back i saw in Bensen’s play after he was hit hard (and dirty) when he came back for the playoffs.

He also drafted Rundbland, J Schmaltz, Bokk, and Schwarz. he isn't perfect. Benson got rocked hard, and I think he will get hit hard again, but as he gets stronger the ceiling is going to be unreal for this kid. You can't teach his hockey sense.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Guess what? Being a scout with 20 years of experience doesn't mean these guys all of a sudden are perfect.

Lol, no, it doesn't. But I'm not the one that said our professional scouting staff, with an overall good record when compared to their peers, is wrong and that I am right.

 

[Half Clapper]

Lol, no, it doesn't. But I'm not the one that said our professional scouting staff, with an overall good record when compared to their peers, is wrong and that I am right.

I think Benson is a top 5 pick and other scouts with plenty of experience agreed. Also, who knows there could be guys on this scouting staff who wanted Benson over the Russians, but BA chose his two Russian guys/scouts instead. I am so confident in Benson that I am gonna make a crazy bold prediction and say that Bedard and Benson will end up being the 2 best players in the draft.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I think Benson is a top 5 pick and other scouts with plenty of experience agreed. Also, who knows there could be guys on this scouting staff who wanted Benson over the Russians, but BA chose his two Russian guys / scouts instead.

I'm going to wait and see on this one.

Edit: We also heard that the Russians weren't scouted as much by other teams due to the war making it more difficult.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I think Benson is a top 5 pick and other scouts with plenty of experience agreed. Also, who knows there could be guys on this scouting staff who wanted Benson over the Russians, but BA chose his two Russian guys / scouts instead.

I'm as guilty as the next guy about "armchair" drafting after the draft, but we won't know anything for 5yrs on these players. If after 5 yrs, the outcome is the same, then a discussion can be had, but immediately after the draft to gauge in "absolutes" and determine winners and losers is just silly.

 

[Half Clapper]

I'm as guilty as the next guy about "armchair" drafting after the draft, but we won't know anything for 5yrs on these players. If after 5 yrs, the outcome is the same, then a discussion can be had, but immediately after the draft to gauge in "absolutes" and determine winners and losers is just silly.

It is not silly when Benson is making an NHL roster NOW, and most likely will be contributing to his team NOW. At some point this team needs to take a f***ing step and stop worrying about 5 years from now. 5 years from now this team will prob be playing in f***ing Atlanta if they don't get shit figured out. This organization NEEDS to make the playoffs in the next 2-3 years.

I'm going to wait and see on this one.

Edit: We also heard that the Russians weren't scouted as much by other teams due to the war making it more difficult.

You'll wait and see while Benson sticks it with Buffalo this year and has a good rookie season. While our guys will be rotting away in a corrupt country playing 5-10 mins a night.

 

[rt]

You really don’t see Carcone having a spot on this team … do you? We gave him a 1-way contract for 2 years. I think he is on the team and plays notably more games than Boyd or O’Brien.

No. Career minor leaguer. He got an atta boy deal.

Guess what? Being a scout with 20 years of experience doesn't mean these guys all of a sudden are perfect. I have an eye for talent, but will never get an opportunity to scout for an NHL roster, due to connections. For every great guy Bill Armstrong drafted, you fail to mention the ones he f***ed up on. Those include Rundbland at #17, Schmaltz at #25, Bokk at #25, and Schwarz at #17 in his first year. Also Erik Johnson was first overall in 06 when guys like Toews, J Staal, Backstrom went right after and ended up being all better players. One of them being a hall of famer.

BA does have a great track record, but let's not kid ourselves and act like every player he drafts in the first round is going to be gold.


He also drafted Rundbland, J Schmaltz, Bokk, and Schwarz. he isn't perfect. Benson got rocked hard, and I think he will get hit hard again, but as he gets stronger the ceiling is going to be unreal for this kid. You can't teach his hockey sense.

Perfection isn’t the goal. The Cup is the goal.

Bill Armstrong - Chief of scouting for STL 2010-2020 (Stanley Cup 2019)

Darryl Plandowski - Chief of scouting for TBL 2008-2020 (Stanley Cups 2020 & 2021)

Alan Hepple - Chief of scouting for COL 2009-2021 (Stanley Cup 2022)

 

[Half Clapper]

No. Career minor leaguer. He got an atta boy deal.


Perfection isn’t the goal. The Cup is the goal.

Bill Armstrong - Chief of scouting for STL 2010-2020 (Stanley Cup 2019)

Darryl Plandowski - Chief of scouting for TBL 2008-2020 (Stanley Cups 2020 & 2021)

Alan Hepple - Chief of scouting for COL 2009-2021 (Stanley Cup 2022)

They were chief of scouting, they weren't the head honchos. Dougie Armstrong, Stevie Y, and Joe Sakic were calling the shots as GMs. Too bad this organization doesn't have somebody in charge who actually won a cup, and was also calling the shots.

I am not discrediting the guys in charge here, they all have done great work, but they royally f***ed up not taking Benson at #12. These Russians prob wont be here for 3 years minimum, and by then this organization will be playing games elsewhere if success and an arena aren't figured out here quick. Time is ticking...You want an actual fanbase, you gotta start doing what the Diamondbacks are doing now and thats winning and setting a winning culture

 

[Kai Yo T]

I am not discrediting the guys in charge here

Actually, that's all you're doing.

Edit: And giving yourself waaay too much credit lol

 

[rt]

They were chief of scouting, they weren't the head honchos. Dougie Armstrong, Stevie Y, and Joe Sakic were calling the shots as GMs. Too bad this organization doesn't have somebody in charge who actually won a cup, and was also calling the shots.

I am not discrediting the guys in charge here, they all have done great work, but they royally f***ed up not taking Benson at #12. These Russians prob wont be here for 3 years minimum, and by then this organization will be playing games elsewhere if success and an arena aren't figured out here quick.

I had Benson 3rd or 4th on my list for most of the year. I think I settled on 4th. Easily my favorite player in the draft.

I’m pretty sure a little before the draft I said there was better chance we pass on him at 12th than there was he wouldn’t be there at 12th. If I recall correctly you told me that was because I have a neck beard and live in my mom’s basement and have never been on skates.

I guess you wanted to be wrong about more than Benson that day. Haha.

 

[Kai Yo T]

you told me that was because I have a neck beard and live in my mom’s basement and have never been on skates

It's typical for this poster.

 

[rt]

It's typical for this poster.

I don’t think he knows many of us have met eachother before. Haha.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

They were chief of scouting, they weren't the head honchos. Dougie Armstrong, Stevie Y, and Joe Sakic were calling the shots as GMs. Too bad this organization doesn't have somebody in charge who actually won a cup, and was also calling the shots.

I am not discrediting the guys in charge here, they all have done great work, but they royally f***ed up not taking Benson at #12. These Russians prob wont be here for 3 years minimum, and by then this organization will be playing games elsewhere if success and an arena aren't figured out here quick. Time is ticking...You want an actual fanbase, you gotta start doing what the Diamondbacks are doing now and thats winning and setting a winning culture

Plus, we weren't the only scouting staff that passed on Benson. After 3 there were 8 other teams that thought someone else was better. All I'm saying is that just because Benson has played well and presumably made the team, doesn't mean he's going to end up being the better player.

Look at Sillinger as an example...dude made the team straight out of the draft and I think it hurt his development playing pro his first season, because he hasn't been the same player since. At this point I'm in the 'overcook' category and don't mind waiting 2-3+ years for the players. They seem to turn out better.

 

[rt]

Plus, we weren't the only scouting staff that passed on Benson. After 3 there were 8 other teams that thought someone else was better. All I'm saying is that just because Benson has played well and presumably made the team, doesn't mean he's going to end up being the better player.

Look at Sillinger as an example...dude made the team straight out of the draft and I think it hurt his development playing pro his first season, because he hasn't been the same player since. At this point I'm in the 'overcook' category and don't mind waiting 2-3+ years for the players. They seem to turn out better.

Zach Benson is my son and I love him and I won’t stand idly by while his good name is besmirched. I have a zero tolerance policy for Zach Benson slander. And you sir, are officially on notice!

 

[Schemp]

Zach Benson is my son and I love him and I won’t stand idly by while his good name is besmirched. I have a zero tolerance policy for Zach Benson slander. And you sir, are officially on notice!

Does his mother know this?

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Zach Benson is my son and I love him and I won’t stand idly by while his good name is besmirched. I have a zero tolerance policy for Zach Benson slander. And you sir, are officially on notice!

Bravo...I wet myself

 

[TheLegend]

Zach Benson is my son and I love him and I won’t stand idly by while his good name is besmirched. I have a zero tolerance policy for Zach Benson slander. And you sir, are officially on notice!

The old rt is back….

 

[hbk]

Guess what? Being a scout with 20 years of experience doesn't mean these guys all of a sudden are perfect. I have an eye for talent, but will never get an opportunity to scout for an NHL roster, due to connections. For every great guy Bill Armstrong drafted, you fail to mention the ones he f***ed up on. Those include Rundbland at #17, Schmaltz at #25, Bokk at #25, and Schwarz at #17 in his first year. Also Erik Johnson was first overall in 06 when guys like Toews, J Staal, Backstrom went right after and ended up being all better players. One of them being a hall of famer.

BA does have a great track record, but let's not kid ourselves and act like every player he drafts in the first round is going to be gold.


He also drafted Rundbland, J Schmaltz, Bokk, and Schwarz. he isn't perfect. Benson got rocked hard, and I think he will get hit hard again, but as he gets stronger the ceiling is going to be unreal for this kid. You can't teach his hockey sense.

I had Bensen high on my list. I think it will take more than a preseason to say if our scouts overthought this. I do agree that criticism may be deserved. I just think it’s early

 

[rt]

Tyce Thompson on waivers. If we hadn’t signed guys like Zucker, Bjugstad and Kerfoot and we were still going to for the best lottery spot, I see Thompson as the kind of claim we’d have made. Would be well know to BA and to JFJr.

 

[Half Clapper]

Plus, we weren't the only scouting staff that passed on Benson. After 3 there were 8 other teams that thought someone else was better. All I'm saying is that just because Benson has played well and presumably made the team, doesn't mean he's going to end up being the better player.

Look at Sillinger as an example...dude made the team straight out of the draft and I think it hurt his development playing pro his first season, because he hasn't been the same player since. At this point I'm in the 'overcook' category and don't mind waiting 2-3+ years for the players. They seem to turn out better.

This argument annoys me. If a player is ready for the NHL at 18 it shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're 18 or 25. Michael Dal Colle got plenty of time to develop and how did that turn out? Remember Pavel Brendl? He got 2 more years to develop as well, how did his career turn out? Remeber Scott Glennie? He got plenty of time to develop and played one NHL game!

The list goes on.

Tyce Thompson on waivers. If we hadn’t signed guys like Zucker, Bjugstad and Kerfoot and we were still going to for the best lottery spot, I see Thompson as the kind of claim we’d have made. Would be well know to BA and to JFJr.

Tyce thompsons sucks. Yes you were right about Benson falling, but don't act like you've been right about much. You thought this team was taking Leonard.

 

[Half Clapper]

I had Bensen high on my list. I think it will take more than a preseason to say if our scouts overthought this. I do agree that criticism may be deserved. I just think it’s early

It's early but I'd much rather have players that will make an impact here in the next 2 years instead of guys who won't be around for another 3-5 years. I can't see Lameroux or But playing on this team for at least 3 years minimum and that's if they make it.

EDIT: Also I'd much rather us have guys developed in the CHL where they actually get to play compared to Russia where these kids won't play much. Benson and Danielson should have been the 2 players picked.