Official 2023 Coyotes OFF Season Discussion

[hbk]

It's early but I'd much rather have players that will make an impact here in the next 2 years instead of guys who won't be around for another 3-5 years. I can't see Lameroux or But playing on this team for at least 3 years minimum and that's if they make it.

EDIT: Also I'd much rather us have guys developed in the CHL where they actually get to play compared to Russia where these kids won't play much. Benson and Danielson should have been the 2 players picked.

Simashev played 20 mins his last game. But played 11. Based on what i have seen i’m excited with those 2 players. I don’t think you can judge a draft class at this point. I loved Bensen but had reservations about his size and durability after his olayoffs. I think this is going to be a good discussion just like the Hayton at 5 discussion which 5 years later doesn’t look as bad as we once feared. Now he’s not Quinn Hughes but in a redraft today Hayton isn’t the reach that everyone said he was. Personally i think But is going to be amazing. I need to see what offense is their from Simashev before i anoint him a top 3D. 2 year expectation’s seems arbitrary goven the length of a nhl career. We had Selanne who didn’t come over for 4 years and i will take the magic of that 76 goal season again. Drafting is about patience and process.

I also think you are sleeping on Lamereoux. Chl app is worth the investment to watch him and Geekie (who has displayed some great playmaking skills early this year).

 

[Foggy1097]

This argument annoys me. If a player is ready for the NHL at 18 it shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're 18 or 25. Michael Dal Colle got plenty of time to develop and how did that turn out? Remember Pavel Brendl? He got 2 more years to develop as well, how did his career turn out? Remeber Scott Glennie? He got plenty of time to develop and played one NHL game!

The list goes on.


Tyce thompsons sucks. Yes you were right about Benson falling, but don't act like you've been right about much. You thought this team was taking Leonard.

You can argue the exact same thing the other way. Boedker was “NHL ready” at 18, how did that work out in the end? Nail Yakupov was “NHL ready” at 18, but we all know how that turned out. You gotta let it marinate for a bit before you are even close to really knowing anything about what the “right” pick was.

 

[Jakey53]

Bill Armstrong's horniness for size is going to f*** this roster over.

Lameroux: I can't see this kid ever making the NHL. I think this is a career AHLer. If he wasn't 6'8, I don't think he goes in the first 3 rounds.

Taking Daniil But over an NHL talent right now at #12 was a massive mistake. Benson is a much better player than But, and will be for as long as the sun shines. I hate these old-school GMs who still value size so much, especially for forwards. I don't give a f*** if we have smaller forwards already, not drafting Benson is the biggest mistake that this organization has made since BA was put on as GM. Benson is keller / Cooley level good. Daniil But, if he pans out to his potential is prob a top 6 forward, who will most likely end up a 3rd line guy.

Our forward group opening night, if we drafted Benson.

Keller (5'10) - Hayton(6'1) - Schmaltz(6'0)
Macelli(5'11) - Cooley(5'11) - Benson(5'10)
Zucker(5'11) - Bjugstad(6'6) - Crouse(6'4)
Kerfoot(5'11) - Mcbain(6'3) - Guenther(6'2)
Sanford(6'4)

No player under 5'10, and still a sprinkle of big boys in the bottom 6. Plus you add Sanford instead of Kerfoot, and your bottom 6 is looking big. That is a playoff-level forward group right there.

There is no excuse for this scouting group, considering we know they watched Benson lots, with Geekie being there.

The verdict is still out on BA and his scouting dept., there is no doubt about that, but I think overall most everything is pointed in the right direction. We all know the draft is a crap shoot.

 

[Jakey53]

Guess what? Being a scout with 20 years of experience doesn't mean these guys all of a sudden are perfect. I have an eye for talent, but will never get an opportunity to scout for an NHL roster, due to connections. For every great guy Bill Armstrong drafted, you fail to mention the ones he f***ed up on. Those include Rundbland at #17, Schmaltz at #25, Bokk at #25, and Schwarz at #17 in his first year. Also Erik Johnson was first overall in 06 when guys like Toews, J Staal, Backstrom went right after and ended up being all better players. One of them being a hall of famer.

BA does have a great track record, but let's not kid ourselves and act like every player he drafts in the first round is going to be gold.


He also drafted Rundbland, J Schmaltz, Bokk, and Schwarz. he isn't perfect. Benson got rocked hard, and I think he will get hit hard again, but as he gets stronger the ceiling is going to be unreal for this kid. You can't teach his hockey sense.

I don't care who the GM is, they make mistakes when dealing with these young kids. No GM is perfect when you are talking about drafting, far from it, and I don't care how good the scouting dept. is on paper, or how good their resume is.

 

[Jakey53]

They were chief of scouting, they weren't the head honchos. Dougie Armstrong, Stevie Y, and Joe Sakic were calling the shots as GMs. Too bad this organization doesn't have somebody in charge who actually won a cup, and was also calling the shots.

I am not discrediting the guys in charge here, they all have done great work, but they royally f***ed up not taking Benson at #12. These Russians prob wont be here for 3 years minimum, and by then this organization will be playing games elsewhere if success and an arena aren't figured out here quick. Time is ticking...You want an actual fanbase, you gotta start doing what the Diamondbacks are doing now and thats winning and setting a winning culture

You are getting all excited about nothing. You are putting much emphasis on preseason games, where many NHL vets play one or two games. Benson might be the all mighty like you said, or he may not. Speaking of the D'back's, have you watched them or seen their record the last 5 yrs. or maybe take a look at their attendance. I think one of the biggest changes with the Coyote's since BA and AT took over is the culture. There is a time and a place to shit on an organization and team, but now is not one of them. I was not a fan or their first two selections in the last draft, but I don't like Russian players in general, mostly because of all the politics surrounding them. There will be a time to spout off about the players of this draft, but it's not now, maybe five years from now.

 

[Jakey53]

Simashev played 20 mins his last game. But played 11. Based on what i have seen i’m excited with those 2 players. I don’t think you can judge a draft class at this point. I loved Bensen but had reservations about his size and durability after his olayoffs. I think this is going to be a good discussion just like the Hayton at 5 discussion which 5 years later doesn’t look as bad as we once feared. Now he’s not Quinn Hughes but in a redraft today Hayton isn’t the reach that everyone said he was. Personally i think But is going to be amazing. I need to see what offense is their from Simashev before i anoint him a top 3D. 2 year expectation’s seems arbitrary goven the length of a nhl career. We had Selanne who didn’t come over for 4 years and i will take the magic of that 76 goal season again. Drafting is about patience and process.

I also think you are sleeping on Lamereoux. Chl app is worth the investment to watch him and Geekie (who has displayed some great playmaking skills early this year).

Speaking of Geekie. With Benson not there, this is his team. Let's see if he flys or flops. No excuses for him this year.

 

[rt]

Speaking of Geekie. With Benson not there, this is his team. Let's see if he flys or flops. No excuses for him this year.

5pts in his first 2gp is a good a start.

 

[rt]

Simashev played 20 mins his last game. But played 11. Based on what i have seen i’m excited with those 2 players. I don’t think you can judge a draft class at this point. I loved Bensen but had reservations about his size and durability after his olayoffs. I think this is going to be a good discussion just like the Hayton at 5 discussion which 5 years later doesn’t look as bad as we once feared. Now he’s not Quinn Hughes but in a redraft today Hayton isn’t the reach that everyone said he was. Personally i think But is going to be amazing. I need to see what offense is their from Simashev before i anoint him a top 3D. 2 year expectation’s seems arbitrary goven the length of a nhl career. We had Selanne who didn’t come over for 4 years and i will take the magic of that 76 goal season again. Drafting is about patience and process.

I also think you are sleeping on Lamereoux. Chl app is worth the investment to watch him and Geekie (who has displayed some great playmaking skills early this year).

Not sure where the “3yrs minimum” is coming from on Simashev and But are playing in the 2nd best league in the world and are only under contract there for one ore season.

 

[hbk]

Speaking of Geekie. With Benson not there, this is his team. Let's see if he flys or flops. No excuses for him this year.

He looks faster and i am seeing much improved playmaking and poise with the puck. He is playing like a top line C.

 

[rt]

This argument annoys me. If a player is ready for the NHL at 18 it shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're 18 or 25. Michael Dal Colle got plenty of time to develop and how did that turn out? Remember Pavel Brendl? He got 2 more years to develop as well, how did his career turn out? Remeber Scott Glennie? He got plenty of time to develop and played one NHL game!

The list goes on.


Tyce thompsons sucks. Yes you were right about Benson falling, but don't act like you've been right about much. You thought this team was taking Leonard.

I said I’d pick Leonard at 6th despite having Benson ranked earlier because I knew Leonard wouldn’t drop to 12th but Benson would. Leonard went 8th and Benson 13th.

Two years ago Tage Thompson sucked and was a bust. Tyce is two years younger than Tage, and hasn’t been on a cellar dweller where he can get a shot. He’s on waivers for a reason. He’s a scratch off lottery ticket. But his background and family have connections to several key folks in our org. So if we were icing a last place team, I believe we’d claim him. But we aren’t and we won’t.

 

[Jakey53]

5pts in his first 2gp is a good a start.

He looks faster and i am seeing much improved playmaking and poise with the puck. He is playing like a top line C.

Good. Now, he just has to add about twenty pounds, and use it to his advantage.

 

[Yotes4Cup]

I just think some of you guys have too much patience if you want to wait another 5 years to see how these guys end up. This organization NEEDS to be in a playoff spot in 2 years from now. We are in year 3 of the rebuild now, right? I think taking guys who could make an impact in the next couple of years, and play in the best development program in the world, aka the CHL would have been better than taking two Russians who play in the "3rd best league" not 2nd. And are barely playing to put more salt on the wound lol.

BA gives me the vibe that he sometimes wants to be the smartest guy in the room, and I think these Russian picks backfire. Hopefully I am wrong.

 

[Yotes4Cup]

You are getting all excited about nothing. You are putting much emphasis on preseason games, where many NHL vets play one or two games. Benson might be the all mighty like you said, or he may not. Speaking of the D'back's, have you watched them or seen their record the last 5 yrs. or maybe take a look at their attendance. I think one of the biggest changes with the Coyote's since BA and AT took over is the culture. There is a time and a place to shit on an organization and team, but now is not one of them. I was not a fan or their first two selections in the last draft, but I don't like Russian players in general, mostly because of all the politics surrounding them. There will be a time to spout off about the players of this draft, but it's not now, maybe five years from now.

Have you watched Danielson and Benson play in the pre-season big guy? Benson is making the roster, and is 3rd in pre-season scoring. Danielson also looks like he is making the roster, and has looked damn good for Detroit. These two guys think the game at a high level and that is something you can't teach. Both were developed in the WHL, which is imo the best prospect development league in the world.

I am not shitting on the organization. I am shitting on BA taking two unknowns, who play in a corrupt shithole and are not getting great development.

 

[Heldig]

Have you watched Danielson and Benson play in the pre-season big guy? Benson is making the roster, and is 3rd in pre-season scoring. Danielson also looks like he is making the roster, and has looked damn good for Detroit. These two guys think the game at a high level and that is something you can't teach. Both were developed in the WHL, which is imo the best prospect development league in the world.

I am not shitting on the organization. I am shitting on BA taking two unknowns, who play in a corrupt shithole and are not getting great development.

Uhm, OHL?

Danielson was a reach where he was picked. Kind of like Hayton. I liked him at 12, not 5.

I echo @rt , I wanted Leonard/Dvorsky and then Benson/Moore.

 

[Jamieh]

I just think some of you guys have too much patience if you want to wait another 5 years to see how these guys end up. This organization NEEDS to be in a playoff spot in 2 years from now. We are in year 3 of the rebuild now, right? I think taking guys who could make an impact in the next couple of years, and play in the best development program in the world, aka the CHL would have been better than taking two Russians who play in the "3rd best league" not 2nd. And are barely playing to put more salt on the wound lol.

BA gives me the vibe that he sometimes wants to be the smartest guy in the room, and I think these Russian picks backfire. Hopefully I am wrong.

I'm sure the Coyotes would like to be in the playoffs soon but if I was a betting man I would put my money on them wanting a slow growth with prospects to peak when new larger building is ready to go. The longer it takes to get to big contracts the better with lower revenue stream.

 

[Yotes4Cup]

Uhm, OHL?

Danielson was a reach where he was picked. Kind of like Hayton. I liked him at 12, not 5.

I echo @rt , I wanted Leonard/Dvorsky and then Benson/Moore.

WHL and the OHL are neck and neck imo. Danielson was a reach but may make Detroit's roster this year. Danielson has looked very good in pre-season.

 

[Yotes4Cup]

I'm sure the Coyotes would like to be in the playoffs soon but if I was a betting man I would put my money on them wanting a slow growth with prospects to peak when new larger building is ready to go. The longer it takes to get to big contracts the better with lower revenue stream.

I get what you're saying, but veteran guys on this team aren't going to wait another 3-5 years for success. Guys like Crouse, Keller, Schmaltz etc have been putting up with this for years now. Ba signing some actual players this year was a good step, but this year they should be creeping near a playoff spot. I am expecting at least a 10th-place finish in the West.

 

[rt]

WHL and the OHL are neck and neck imo. Danielson was a reach but may make Detroit's roster this year. Danielson has looked very good in pre-season.

Had Danielson top ten. Watched a lot of Brandon last season.

 

[Jamieh]

I get what you're saying, but veteran guys on this team aren't going to wait another 3-5 years for success. Guys like Crouse, Keller, Schmaltz etc have been putting up with this for years now. Ba signing some actual players this year was a good step, but this year they should be creeping near a playoff spot. I am expecting at least a 10th-place finish in the West.

Incremental growth is the recipe for long-term success. The only way to try to speed that up is generally trading future for present. I don't see that happening due to my earlier thoughts. Growing faster is possible but IMO that would be more pleasant surprise than rush by Management.

 

[BAdvocate]

Perhaps Benson would have been the choice @ 12 if not for Cooley? I think arguing Benson @ the But pick is fair, but not @ 6.

I suspect a few Forum40 members may feel differently down the road the first time they see Simashev in an NHL game....assuming his skating is elite, he's a legit 6'7, and BA is still running the show in 2 years, and he's wearing a Coyotes sweater. Especially if he's with his 6'8 buddy.

If I thought Benson could be as good as Cooley I'd feel differently.

 

[Yotes4Cup]

Perhaps Benson would have been the choice @ 12 if not for Cooley? I think arguing Benson @ the But pick is fair, but not @ 6.

I suspect a few Forum40 members may feel differently down the road the first time they see Simashev in an NHL game....assuming his skating is elite, he's a legit 6'7, and BA is still running the show in 2 years, and he's wearing a Coyotes sweater. Especially if he's with his 6'8 buddy.

If I thought Benson could be as good as Cooley I'd feel differently.

That is what I am arguing. I don't mind the Simashev pick as much. I think it was a reach still, but I understand it. Taking But over Benson imo is chasing size, and overlooking an unreal talent in Benson.

 

[rt]

Perhaps Benson would have been the choice @ 12 if not for Cooley? I think arguing Benson @ the But pick is fair, but not @ 6.

I suspect a few Forum40 members may feel differently down the road the first time they see Simashev in an NHL game....assuming his skating is elite, he's a legit 6'7, and BA is still running the show in 2 years, and he's wearing a Coyotes sweater. Especially if he's with his 6'8 buddy.

If I thought Benson could be as good as Cooley I'd feel differently.

I’d trade Simashev for Benson right now. No problem. Easy.

But I’m not about to have a tantrum because we went with Simashev. I’m not a scout. I’m just a junior hockey enthusiast.

 

[Yotes4Cup]

Incremental growth is the recipe for long-term success. The only way to try to speed that up is generally trading future for present. I don't see that happening due to my earlier thoughts. Growing faster is possible but IMO that would be more pleasant surprise than rush by Management.

Yes it is, but you have to add the human element to this. Guys are very competitive, and guys like Keller, Crouse, and Schmaltz only have so much patience. Unless we are trading all three of these guys too?

 

[rt]

That is what I am arguing. I don't mind the Simashev pick as much. I think it was a reach still, but I understand it. Taking But over Benson imo is chasing size, and overlooking an unreal talent in Benson.

I like But better than Simashev. Better than Geekie too.

My picks would’ve been Leonard or Dvorsky at 6th and Benson at 12th and then Dragicevic at the Hrabal pick.

 

[Yotes4Cup]

I like But better than Simashev. Better than Geekie too.

My picks would’ve been Leonard or Dvorsky at 6th and Benson at 12th and then Dragicevic at the Hrabal pick.

Ya but team need wise you need to start drafting a backend and if we took two more forwards in the 1st, what blue chip d prospects do we have? Lameroux? Duda? That is not very promising.