Speculation: Official 2021-22 Coyotes Roster Discussion IV

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rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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A Rockwellian Pleasantville
Assuming we don’t win the lottery and we pick 3rd, I’d be cool with Jiricek at that spot.

Maybe trade Chychrun to Long Island for Raty to get that big center. Use their pick to grab Bichsel, another big, nasty defenseman in the 1st round. The Left-Shot Jiricek, maybe.

Then grab a couple of pick centers to go with Hayton and the newly acquired Raty, Smith, and McBain. Maybe Del Bel Belluz and Gaucher at the end of the 1st?

Suddenly we have twin towers in Bichsel and Jiricek (maybe even pick Warren with our 2nd). And we’re basically all of a sudden just drowning in 6’2-6’4” young, two-way centers in Hayton, Raty, LDBB, Gaucher, Smith and McBain.
Or maybe another big C like Gauthier or Kasper with the Isles pick, and then another big LD like Pickering or someone with that later 1st. Basically, just the framework of an idea to add a bunch of size and upside down the middle and on the backend, without necessarily being dependent on winning the lottery or reaching for positional need.
 

Coyotedroppings

Registered User
Jul 16, 2017
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I liked Bunting from his first day in camp, but I have to say that in the handful of games I saw in Tucson, he did not appear to be ready for the NHL.
 

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
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The best defense is… an offense which can keep possession for more than a paltry 13 seconds.

Our defense isn’t so bad as our offense makes it look.
 
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Jamieh

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Apr 25, 2012
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If I remember correctly Bunting was raised by a Single Mother with help from Grand Parents. I think going home was very important for Him and his Family, money was secondary. Play a few good years for the Leafs and he will be an Ambassador for Life, which will make up for any lost short term income.
 

cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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You think an extra year or $500k/year more was going to convince Bunting to stick around? Armstrong got here with Bunting having less than a year to free agency. In what world does an agent tell a player to sign early and avoid going to the market with under a year to wait? The goal of Bunting's contract was to position himself for his next contract. He wasn't in a position to cash out big time, hence the shorter deal, and why it made more sense to leave a toiling team for one in which he'd get a lot of assistance scoring and building his profile. Even doubling or tripling Bunting's current contract offer is paltry compared to what he can get in what is now 1 more season.

It just doesn't make sense and there was nothing reasonable to offer him. The opportunity was poor and the last thing Armstrong needs to do is hand out extra salary this early in the rebuild on a player with such a short history. It sets the standard for all the prospects we're about to have that they can get paid early and it'll lead to poor use of the cap when it actually matters.
BA could have made a more reasonable offer to keep him somehow. We can't constantly make excuses for our GM when young players leave here and have 60 point seasons elsewhere. We at least got the better player in Schmaltz for Strome when he got 50 points.

As many have mentioned maybe he should have been up sooner to have a longer look at him. We don't know exactly what BA would have needed to do to keep him. I think BA judged him before he was brought up and thought he was a flash in the pan. BA misjudged him. If Ba was the GM after garland came up and had success in a partial season, garland might have been gone too.

Toronto is laughing at the Coyotes, a team that can't score but Toronto gets a 60 point player for free we can't sign and we make excuses for BA. Just like BA not signing garland and making him the bait to unload OEL, oh yah because he waited a year to trade OEL, that cost us Garland.
 

Kaizen

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Sep 30, 2004
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Anchoring bias Cobra - you need to re-evaluate your opinion now and again. It looks like you've made a judgement re: Garland/OEL and aren't considering moving away from that opinion. I suppose that would be confirmation bias. :dunno:. Same with Bunting - your position might be correct but maybe not?
 
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gorsk11

Logan Cooley for the win.
Jun 25, 2008
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I loved the way Garland played. He was a surprise to me and I would love it if he was still here. But you dont pay big money to a smallish forward who will get injured during a season and miss games... for a team that needs to do a rebuild. It was needed.

As to bunting, he wasnt going to resign here. He wanted to play in Toronto.
 

Canis Latrans

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Jan 19, 2015
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You are missing the point. Bunting should have been up for a look see before his last year here. He was almost a point a game in the AHL before his last year here. Chayka and RT missed the boat, and maybe BA did as well, but Bunting may have had his mind made up by then, but I still think if BA offered him a contract north of what TO offered, he may still be here. Although, I think BA did not want Bunting because of risk and age, which makes little sense because of the signing of Jaskin who was much older. That's why I find it encouraging that BA signed Smith and McBain and AT is playing them.
My point is that you can't really blame Armstrong for it. For one, he got here 9 months before Bunting left. He did state he was evaluating for his first year. I would think he had to defer to Tocchet and other staff for how ready Bunting would be until he'd been around long enough to find out for himself or through other reports, but realistically, Bunting's readiness was unlikely to be a high priority so I can understand not being on top of it.

Furthermore, I believe Varady was up with the Coyotes all of that last season with Tocchet and he's now back in Tucson, so he who would have been a great advocate for moving him up from the Roadrunners and knowing he was ready, would have known his state from say a season prior where he may not have been ready, but were he to have been down there, I am sure he would have been up sooner. You have to remember we had a new head coach for the season and knowing what we know now about Sullivan and how he poisoned the draft pick of Miller, it does not bestow confidence that his evaluation and semi-final say for players to move up from Tucson to Phoenix was good enough to get Bunting up when he should have been.

Lastly, it's been reported that the Coyotes did offer Bunting more and he still chose Toronto. Toronto got him essentially gift wrapped as he hails from there, was inexpensive, and every one knew he had a very good chance of continuing in some semblance his break out that he had here in the last 20 games. He's obviously done so, but perhaps the length of a full NHL season has affected him of late, though to be fair, this is the first real season with a real grind in a few years, so understandable for a player to run out of steam if they've never experienced this before.
 

Canis Latrans

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Jan 19, 2015
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BA could have made a more reasonable offer to keep him somehow. We can't constantly make excuses for our GM when young players leave here and have 60 point seasons elsewhere. We at least got the better player in Schmaltz for Strome when he got 50 points.

As many have mentioned maybe he should have been up sooner to have a longer look at him. We don't know exactly what BA would have needed to do to keep him. I think BA judged him before he was brought up and thought he was a flash in the pan. BA misjudged him. If Ba was the GM after garland came up and had success in a partial season, garland might have been gone too.

Toronto is laughing at the Coyotes, a team that can't score but Toronto gets a 60 point player for free we can't sign and we make excuses for BA. Just like BA not signing garland and making him the bait to unload OEL, oh yah because he waited a year to trade OEL, that cost us Garland.
Bunting is 26. He needed to leave because he's not a young prospect breaking out. He can't wait 3-4 years and be 30. The opportunity afforded by the Coyotes was not going to work for him and it's clear immediate money wasn't what he wanted. He went to a high-flying offense, where he hails from, with high media presence to pump up his value (if you believe in that). In one more year he will get what is likely his most valuable contract of his career. Playing for the Coyotes would lower his value because he'd need to do it all himself more often than not, whereas Toronto has way more guys who can make it easier for you to score. Don't forget, it's become clear Armstrong will be trading away assets and unless Bunting could get a no-trade clause (unlikely), he very well may have been moved this past season to a destination not of his choosing. Besides, there is nothing stopping him from coming back in a few years when Toronto may be on the downslide and the Coyotes have arrived, but keeping him for a bit and then trading him for a 3rd rounder would have ensured he never returns.
 

lanky

Feeling Spicy
Jun 23, 2007
9,158
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Winnipeg
Basically, just the framework of an idea to add a bunch of size and upside down the middle and on the backend, without necessarily being dependent on winning the lottery or reaching for positional need.
Yes!
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,226
9,227
My point is that you can't really blame Armstrong for it. For one, he got here 9 months before Bunting left. He did state he was evaluating for his first year. I would think he had to defer to Tocchet and other staff for how ready Bunting would be until he'd been around long enough to find out for himself or through other reports, but realistically, Bunting's readiness was unlikely to be a high priority so I can understand not being on top of it.

Furthermore, I believe Varady was up with the Coyotes all of that last season with Tocchet and he's now back in Tucson, so he who would have been a great advocate for moving him up from the Roadrunners and knowing he was ready, would have known his state from say a season prior where he may not have been ready, but were he to have been down there, I am sure he would have been up sooner. You have to remember we had a new head coach for the season and knowing what we know now about Sullivan and how he poisoned the draft pick of Miller, it does not bestow confidence that his evaluation and semi-final say for players to move up from Tucson to Phoenix was good enough to get Bunting up when he should have been.

Lastly, it's been reported that the Coyotes did offer Bunting more and he still chose Toronto. Toronto got him essentially gift wrapped as he hails from there, was inexpensive, and every one knew he had a very good chance of continuing in some semblance his break out that he had here in the last 20 games. He's obviously done so, but perhaps the length of a full NHL season has affected him of late, though to be fair, this is the first real season with a real grind in a few years, so understandable for a player to run out of steam if they've never experienced this before.
Good post. I blame RT and Chayka more that BA. When the Coyotes offered Bunting a contract is was a day late dollar short. Bunting knew by then that TO wanted him, so it was a no brainer.
 
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Coyotedroppings

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Jul 16, 2017
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We can second guess BA all day long and never really have certainty of the outcome of different scenarios. I feel like the only mistake he can confidentially be called out on is not firing RT immediately.
 
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Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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Bunting is 26. He needed to leave because he's not a young prospect breaking out. He can't wait 3-4 years and be 30. The opportunity afforded by the Coyotes was not going to work for him and it's clear immediate money wasn't what he wanted. He went to a high-flying offense, where he hails from, with high media presence to pump up his value (if you believe in that). In one more year he will get what is likely his most valuable contract of his career. Playing for the Coyotes would lower his value because he'd need to do it all himself more often than not, whereas Toronto has way more guys who can make it easier for you to score. Don't forget, it's become clear Armstrong will be trading away assets and unless Bunting could get a no-trade clause (unlikely), he very well may have been moved this past season to a destination not of his choosing. Besides, there is nothing stopping him from coming back in a few years when Toronto may be on the downslide and the Coyotes have arrived, but keeping him for a bit and then trading him for a 3rd rounder would have ensured he never returns.
That's my point. Bunting should have been called up two years prior to see what he could do. If he made the team he all of a sudden becomes an asset that could be traded for something. Bunting will not be coming back. What ever, it is what it is.
 

Coyotedroppings

Registered User
Jul 16, 2017
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That's my point. Bunting should have been called up two years prior to see what he could do. If he made the team he all of a sudden becomes an asset that could be traded for something. Bunting will not be coming back. What ever, it is what it is.
Someone would need to look it up, but I’m certain Bunting had call ups previously.
 

Coyotedroppings

Registered User
Jul 16, 2017
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He had a total of 5 NHL games that were all during the 2018-19 season. None in 2019-20. Then he ended up with 21 games in the 2020-21 season after BA arrived.
There we have it, he did have call ups and wasn't impressive enough for more.
 

Heldig

Registered User
Apr 12, 2002
17,120
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26 games over 3 years. 5 in 18/19, 0 in 19/20, and 21 in 20/21.
Poorly handled, he gets a late call-up (finally) and shows he is NHL ready. Then he goes and plays for Team Canada. By the summer it was rumoured/known he was not interested in staying in the desert and preferred to play in Toronto.

I can imagine during the free agency period Toronto suggested he would get a chance to earn a spot on the top 2 lines (replacing Hyman). Bunting bet on himself and looks like he will win. His only error was signing a 2 year bottom dollar deal. He is due a BIG raise.
 

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
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You think an extra year or $500k/year more was going to convince Bunting to stick around? Armstrong got here with Bunting having less than a year to free agency. In what world does an agent tell a player to sign early and avoid going to the market with under a year to wait? The goal of Bunting's contract was to position himself for his next contract. He wasn't in a position to cash out big time, hence the shorter deal, and why it made more sense to leave a toiling team for one in which he'd get a lot of assistance scoring and building his profile. Even doubling or tripling Bunting's current contract offer is paltry compared to what he can get in what is now 1 more season.

It just doesn't make sense and there was nothing reasonable to offer him. The opportunity was poor and the last thing Armstrong needs to do is hand out extra salary this early in the rebuild on a player with such a short history. It sets the standard for all the prospects we're about to have that they can get paid early and it'll lead to poor use of the cap when it actually matters.
We can't keep making excuses for losing young players that turn into 60 point players elsewhere. If BA had signed a 26 year old from another team like TM did with Bunting, and the guy got 60 points for us, we would all think BA is a guru and the TM GM was stupid. Keep in mind we are in a total rebuild, offering a young player a little more money or term doesn't have a lot of risk.

If BA thought Bunting could be a 50 point scorer, he would have figured out a way to keep him. His talent evaluation was way off in this case. As Jakey said, why didn't he get more time in the last few years, Bunting produced in the AHL? BA made a mistake, that is all I am saying, same with waiting to trade OEL, cost us Garland. Let's not cover it up and pretend its ok or make excuses for BA.
 
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hbk

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Giving Mayo playing time and signing him seems smart right now. Did BA learn to trust the system?
 
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