Off-season roster thread #3 -- Post-draft and upcoming Free Agency
- Thread starter Zman5778
- Start date
- Status
Zman5778
Moderator
That notion will certainly be put to the test this season.
I'm not suggesting either should be resigned. Just pointing out that they were good at something which nobody else was & many people take that for granted.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
Granato dangled a carrot saying anyone who can get good at faceoffs will earn more ice time. Gotta think/hope someone takes him up on that challenge.
There are different takes on if it is important. The Blues did an internal survey a few years prior to their Cup win that for that team showed no difference in the quality of chances for or against. I think the Panthers did one when their analytics dept. had free rein and it showed it had an impact for them.
And if they are desperate, a certain Crimson Flow has been released from his ATO in Calgary today.
joshjull
Registered User
That's fine. Rather work on faceoffs to get better and keep working on puck retrieval than signing another Eakin or Sobotka.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
I feel like it can matter quite a bit, situationally. But it's not like goal scoring where you'll willling to sign a one-dimensional guy just to do that one thing well. So there's really no other option but to have Peca work with these guys all season and hope they're able to improve...significantly.There are different takes on if it is important. The Blues did an internal survey a few years prior to their Cup win that for that team showed no difference in the quality of chances for or against. I think the Panthers did one when their analytics dept. had free rein and it showed it had an impact for them.
And if they are desperate, a certain Crimson Flow has been released from his ATO in Calgary today.
joshjull
Registered User
Its interesting reading various studies and opinions on it.There are different takes on if it is important. The Blues did an internal survey a few years prior to their Cup win that for that team showed no difference in the quality of chances for or against. I think the Panthers did one when their analytics dept. had free rein and it showed it had an impact for them.
And if they are desperate, a certain Crimson Flow has been released from his ATO in Calgary today.
What I get out of it generally is faceoffs don’t matter much in the aggregate but can have an impact on individual situations.
It reminds me of the early analysis of zone starts and their impact.
- Mar 10, 2012
- 4,838
- 2,598
It certainly matters more in overtime
WhereAreTheCookies
Registered User
He needs to sign in Arizona so he can play in Mullett arena, it's just meant to be.
Digable5
Buffalo Proton (Positively Charged)
If I had to take a side in the Faceoff importance debate, I would probably pick “not important”, but my memory says Eakins faceoff wins in OT last season lead to a few points in the standings.
It’s an interesting topic as to how many points can we attribute to faceoff wins (OT possession, late game in either the offensive or defensive zone) and how many losses can we attribute to his poor play?
I am Uber excited about this years roster being much better than last season, but if these crucial situations don’t go our way as much this season we could see a drop in the standings. Interesting to ponder.
It’s an interesting topic as to how many points can we attribute to faceoff wins (OT possession, late game in either the offensive or defensive zone) and how many losses can we attribute to his poor play?
I am Uber excited about this years roster being much better than last season, but if these crucial situations don’t go our way as much this season we could see a drop in the standings. Interesting to ponder.
Fjordy
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 15,358
- 8,271
Bjork - Eakin... we demand the continuation of the banquet!
Weltschmerz
Front Running Fan
- Apr 22, 2007
- 4,900
- 3,041
WhereAreTheCookies
Registered User
I seem to recall an OT game last season where Eakin tried to lunge forward to grab possession of the puck after the face-off and the other team ended up scoring on an odd man rush right after. I'm old however so I might be misremembering.
Digable5
Buffalo Proton (Positively Charged)
Haha. I have the same recollection. Either they are implanting this memory into old people through the COVID vaccine or it actually happened.
But that’s my point, I can’t rely on my memory to tell me he was helpful or not. Did the good of a faceoff specialist last season outweigh the carrying of a terrible player?
Working for the Winterhawks a few years ago, but lately no idea. This is one of those things though - being good at a skill does not necessarily make someone good at teaching someone how to perform that skill.
Yes that’s what this team needs. And some Larson too. Back to the glory days of being the laughing stock of the nhl.
Or we could try the new guys and see if they can make the jump and bring some hope to the franchise
Sure they will make mistakes but the hope is that they learn from them and get better
Yep, and the situational part of it - is it worth having someone who is poor at the other parts of hockey to have a guy who wins 1 more draw out of every 10 than most? That's where looking at the trend of draw loss to chances against or length of zone time against is probably worth digging into. Do they get tired from the lost draw enough that it has an impact on the score or over a length of time? If kind of falls into a nice to have but carrying someone who is objectively bad at hockey but good at faceoffs seems like a detriment having just seen what Eakin offered them the last two years.
Fjordy
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 15,358
- 8,271
ForsbergMoDo21
Registered User
I would think that face offs have to be one of the easier facets of a player’s game to improve with coaching and practice.
Also, it’s quite fitting that players like Eakin and Sobotka could result in possession. Jettisoning them off this team certainly felt like an exorcism.
Also, it’s quite fitting that players like Eakin and Sobotka could result in possession. Jettisoning them off this team certainly felt like an exorcism.
Bendium
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2019
- 1,904
- 1,487
I think FO's are very important to becoming a winning team. It is an easily measurable factor in your possession metrics. More possession SHOULD equal improved point differential.
Now, the center getting clean wins is only one part of winning faceoffs. The wingers are also a part of winning faceoffs that are NOT clean wins. Sometimes you can even let the other center win it, and you attack them off the drop and still win the possession, which is scored as a faceoff win.
Winning more faceoffs is always going to be better than winning less. Having at least one good FO guy Is pretty essential in the playoffs I would think. Having one on the team should help the other centers improve as well in practice.
So.....do we need to waste a spot on a FO specialist right now? No.......but if we are still legit in the fight for a playoff spot come the trade deadline, and none of our current centers have suddenly become a 50+ FO guy, then we will need to be looking at trading for one.
Now, the center getting clean wins is only one part of winning faceoffs. The wingers are also a part of winning faceoffs that are NOT clean wins. Sometimes you can even let the other center win it, and you attack them off the drop and still win the possession, which is scored as a faceoff win.
Winning more faceoffs is always going to be better than winning less. Having at least one good FO guy Is pretty essential in the playoffs I would think. Having one on the team should help the other centers improve as well in practice.
So.....do we need to waste a spot on a FO specialist right now? No.......but if we are still legit in the fight for a playoff spot come the trade deadline, and none of our current centers have suddenly become a 50+ FO guy, then we will need to be looking at trading for one.
Yes it was by that poster sorry if response harsh. Others really believe that though
Zman5778
Moderator
There's also this wonderful dynamic:
Player A wins faceoffs at a 60% rate over the season.
Player B wins faceoffs at a 40% rate over the season.
So when A and B faceoff against each other, A will win 6 out of 10 and B will win 4 out of 10. Right?
NOPE. Over a long enough span, sure those numbers will hold. But during one night and they take like 15 faceoffs against each other? I'd bet A wins 10-12.....given that 60% is among the league's best while 40% is among the league's worst.
I tend to think that faceoffs matter more than most people. ESPECIALLY in the offensive/defensive end. One lost faceoff can end in a goal in those ends super quick.
Buffalo Norsemen
Registered User
Faceoffs are an art, you need body strength, juju, and
Milano is a interesting name
- Status
