Speculation: Off-Season Roster Building/Line Combos Thread

[MinJaBen]

Yeah but, Svech is basically like a #1OA in a regular draft year, correct?

Did Matthews, Hall and Tavares wind up on the 3rd line their rookie year? I mean maybe they did, I have no idea.

I seem to recall Skinner on the 1st line with Eric Cole and Stillman his rookie season- or is that erroneous?

I get that he was used on the 3rd line the past couple of years- I thought that was a peculiarity of the Peter's system. or do other teams do stuff like put the top goal scorer on that line?

I don't think Skinner was on the first line as a rookie. Whether the line he was on was the 2nd or 3rd, I have no idea.

As far as recent comparables, I'd say Svech is probably going to end up being played like Laine in Winnipeg. I believe he spent most of his first season on what would be considered their 3rd line and even now is not on their top line. Giving these budding superstars easy matchups is not a bad thing to let them do what they do well while shielding them somewhat from the harder (defense) parts of the game.

 

[Lempo]

Yeah but, Svech is basically like a #1OA in a regular draft year, correct?

Did Matthews, Hall and Tavares wind up on the 3rd line their rookie year? I mean maybe they did, I have no idea.

I seem to recall Skinner on the 1st line with Eric Cole and Stillman his rookie season- or is that erroneous?

I get that he was used on the 3rd line the past couple of years- I thought that was a peculiarity of the Peter's system. or do other teams do stuff like put the top goal scorer on that line?

Matthews was centering 3rd well into season I believe, and Laine was moving around in 1st to 3rd and sticking in 3rd for a prolonged while.

 

[Lempo]

I don't think Skinner was on the first line as a rookie. Whether the line he was on was the 2nd or 3rd, I have no idea.

As far as recent comparables, I'd say Svech is probably going to end up being played like Laine in Winnipeg. I believe he spent most of his first season on what would be considered their 3rd line and even now is not on their top line. Giving these budding superstars easy matchups is not a bad thing to let them do what they do well while shielding them somewhat from the harder (defense) parts of the game.

Oh yes, there was plenty of snark towards the numbering when line x was being the real 1st line every now and then, and Laine was being moved from left to right and 1st to 3rd, tested/tried to jumpstart with different center and whatnot.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Yeah but, Svech is basically like a #1OA in a regular draft year, correct?

Did Matthews, Hall and Tavares wind up on the 3rd line their rookie year? I mean maybe they did, I have no idea.

I seem to recall Skinner on the 1st line with Eric Cole and Stillman his rookie season- or is that erroneous?

I get that he was used on the 3rd line the past couple of years- I thought that was a peculiarity of the Peter's system. or do other teams do stuff like put the top goal scorer on that line?

Skinner played primarily with Ruutu and Jokinen I thought? In any event whatever line he played on wasn’t the 1st line because he didn’t play with Eric Staal. Staal and any two pylons would have been the 1st in that time period.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Skinner played primarily with Ruutu and Jokinen I thought? In any event whatever line he played on wasn’t the 1st line because he didn’t play with Eric Staal. Staal and any two pylons would have been the 1st in that time period.

That's right- he never played with Staal. Forgot about that. I do remember him with Cole for some reason.

Always learning stuff on here. I don't watch any hockey outside of the Canes so that kind of skews my perspective on things.

I just kind of thought that with the new owner and the abandonment of the way Peter's used to do things they'd throw Aho and Svech on #1 and hope for dominance.

 

[Joe McGrath]

That's right- he never played with Staal. Forgot about that. I do remember him with Cole for some reason.

Always learning stuff on here. I don't watch any hockey outside of the Canes so that kind of skews my perspective on things.

I just kind of thought that with the new owner and the abandonment of the way Peter's used to do things they'd throw Aho and Svech on #1 and hope for dominance.

Anything is possible. I don’t think they would separate TT and Aho though and TT and Svevh play the same position.

It’s also hard to believe they’d put the two teenagers together too though so I really have no idea what they are going to wind up with.

 

[Lempo]

Anything is possible. I don’t think they would separate TT and Aho though and TT and Svevh play the same position.

It’s also hard to believe they’d put the two teenagers together too though so I really have no idea what they are going to wind up with.

Jets played the youngings Laine and Ehlers together with an experienced center on the 3rd line for the longest time. Admittedly Ehlers was 20 and had an NHL season under his belt already, but two good creative young rookies who complement each other may work very well together in a not top-line.

Ditto Matthews-Nylander, I believe.

Reading the names I wrote, all of the sudden this actually seems to be a fun problem to have.

 

[MinJaBen]

Anything is possible. I don’t think they would separate TT and Aho though and TT and Svevh play the same position.

Both Svech and TT are left-shooting right wingers. Anybody know if either has played, or can play, left wing? It would seems to balance things nicely if one of them could play well on their strong side.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Both Svech and TT are left-shooting right wingers. Anybody know if either has played, or can play, left wing? It would seems to balance things nicely if one of them could play well on their strong side.

TT has played LW but he was much more effective on the right. Playing the rookie out of position would seem like a really dumb thing to do.

 

[MinJaBen]

TT has played LW but he was much more effective on the right. Playing the rookie out of position would seem like a really dumb thing to do.

I agree. I would greatly prefer to see if TT could make it work on the left with Aho and put Svech on his right side.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Pairing Svechnikov with Aho and Teravainen, if possible positionally, would have made more sense had Skinner not been dealt. Now, there's not enough punch in the middle-6 to make it work. Staal carrying weaker linemates on a grinding type line in the way he did in 15-16 is unlikely to be duplicated. Necas producing at center as a 19 year old rookie with a combination of McGinn, Ferland, Williams and Zykov as linemates is a tall order.

At this point, the Canes not only need Svechnikov to make an impact, but to do it as the alpha on a 2nd or 3rd line.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t like the sound of that. If we need an 18 year old to produce our team sucks, and should deal with that instead of putting it on the kid.

He should only be in the position to succeed. 30-40 pts on the third line.....great!! Leading goal scorer who took the first line job away from someone else.....great!!

There should be almost no scenario where he should feel pressure about letting the team down because he didn’t do enough.

 

[Canes]

I think we've known for a while that our team isn't very good, and that's the whole reason we were in a position to get such a player like him to begin with. Finally getting a lottery pick to get a potential franchise player is part of the plan to deal with getting better. Like it or not, Svechnikov is a big part of this. He may not be a superstar and play like he's in his prime right away but there's always going to be immense pressure as a #2 overall pick and the first forward taken in the draft.

 

[DaveG]

Jets played the youngings Laine and Ehlers together with an experienced center on the 3rd line for the longest time. Admittedly Ehlers was 20 and had an NHL season under his belt already, but two good creative young rookies who complement each other may work very well together in a not top-line.

Ditto Matthews-Nylander, I believe.

Reading the names I wrote, all of the sudden this actually seems to be a fun problem to have.

I can see Ferland-Necas-Svech being a thing this coming season. Probably not ideal but would certainly be a useful 3rd or even 2nd line, and Ferland is a pretty solid skater. Only concerns would be about the defense with that line but it's not like any of the 3 are coming in with a Jeff Skinner level defensive game.

 

[emptyNedder]

Both Svech and TT are left-shooting right wingers. Anybody know if either has played, or can play, left wing? It would seems to balance things nicely if one of them could play well on their strong side.

I subscribe to the strong-link theory of hockey. Basically having the best player on the ice in any shift is more valuable than having the two best on the ice together. The success of teams with two top players on different lines (Kane/Toews, Crosby/Malkin/Kessel, Laine/Scheifele, even Washington once they were able to have Backstrom and Ovechkin on different lines) would support the theory.

So it makes sense to have one scoring line feature Aho and another feature Svechnikov. It might help development in his first season or two to give Svech some time with Aho, but eventually they should create nightmares for opponents on separate lines.

In fact, in a perfect future letting Aho and Svech carry their line mates would allow a third line with Necas and Teravainen. Something like:

Zykov/Aho/Pu
Foegele/Wallmark/Svech
Kuokkanen/Necas/Teravainen
McGinn/Staal/Mattheos

 

[AD Skinner]

Man I would love it if we had a ZAP line and could post Zapp Brannigan gifs every time they scored

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Man I would love it if we had a ZAP line and could post Zapp Brannigan gifs every time they scored

What I’m worried RBA will be like as a coach:

 

[NotOpie]

I agree that the Ferland/Necas/Svechnikov line smells like a 3rd line they would be comfortable with, but I also wonder if you could substitute Brock McGinn for Ferland.

As far as future lines are concerned, I'm not sure I'm prepared to go quite as far as Hitchhiker went. As of today, the only forwards in our pipeline I'd be comfortable projecting to the NHL (besides Svech and Necas) are Zykov, Foegele, Wallmark, Saarela, Kuokkanen, Roy, and Gauthier. I'm not saying all these guys make it, but they seem to be on the path to get there.

There are lots of guys who seemed to take a step back this year that I was high on (Filipe, Zimmer, and Cotton to a lesser extent). I think Geekie and Mattheos both have the look of future NHL'ers. But so many other guys remain wild cards. I don't know Pu except from the stats pages. Luostarinen seems like a wild card....and frankly, this past June, I wasn't especially impressed with any of the draft picks after Drury.

I also think there's a lot to be said about constructing lines that have a sniper, a distributor, and a "space maker" on them.

 

[enviSAGE]

Crosby and Malkin only play on seperate lines because they both thrive in the center position. If the Caps took Malkin instead of Ovi, it's a strong bet that Ovi would have nearly all the Rocket Richards on his mantle as Crosby's LW. But it's all assuming there is a chemistry present. For instance, Kessel is just awkward with Crosby. And though he plays pretty great with Geno, even Geno is at his best when he is the one shooting the puck and not focusing on feeding a sniper. So it was really more out of necessity that those 3 got their own lines. But there are many more examples of duos that have complemented each other perfectly. Take Benn-Seguin. Lemieux-Jagr even.

I think the lesson is that each case is it's own particularity and you have to judge what helps the team best. I think SvechCas will be great for each other and definitely should be experimented with heavily. But chemistry can be a wonky thing sometimes. The fact they're rookies should only make it more fun and special for them. They both belong in the NHL, that's all that matters. The question I think is what type of third wheel would benefit them both the best?

 

[enviSAGE]

It probably is for the best to hold onto Faulk and likely even extend him until at least you know for sure that Dougie is happy in Carolina and in it for the long run. Even with Dougie extended, it's likely you can still work both of them in the cap. They both can have their own PP. It could work. Trade Fox for another budding winger prospect next off-season (Yamamoto?).

Just dodged a bullet in the Seattle expansion draft too because you can protect all of Hamilton, Faulk, Slavin, Pesce, & Fleury because Bean, Necas, and Svech will be exempt.

 

[Vagrant]

I don’t like the sound of that. If we need an 18 year old to produce our team sucks, and should deal with that instead of putting it on the kid.

He should only be in the position to succeed. 30-40 pts on the third line.....great!! Leading goal scorer who took the first line job away from someone else.....great!!

There should be almost no scenario where he should feel pressure about letting the team down because he didn’t do enough.

the more time that goes by, the more it feels like the idea of tempering expectations for 18 year old players is an archaic perspective from a time when teenagers in major junior were entirely unprepared for the league. if you take a look at the last decade but more specifically the last 5 years, the immediacy of contributions from elite prospects has become more the norm than a deviation. i don't think there's anything wrong at all with having a standard of expectations for svechnikov that are in line with his pedigree. the league has gotten softer, less predatory, and more speed and skill based. plus, players have started to prepare their bodies years and years in advance of the old guard that just let the kids play hockey and not worry about the nutrition and weight training stuff until the league demanded it. when you see these kids on instagram training with established nhl talent at 16 it starts to hit home how different 18 year old players are now in terms of preparation.

all this to say that expectations for every player should be required to build a winning culture. if he's not ready for expectations at the nhl level, he's not ready for the nhl level. it seems like something of a non issue for me. i think he's going to produce like a top six forward immediately and we shouldn't be at all surprised when it happens. even among the first forwards taken in the last five drafts, svechnikov is physically more mature than them all. there's no cause for concern that he will wilt under pressure. he seems like a mentally tough kid.

 

[Lempo]

the more time that goes by, the more it feels like the idea of tempering expectations for 18 year old players is an archaic perspective from a time when teenagers in major junior were entirely unprepared for the league. if you take a look at the last decade but more specifically the last 5 years, the immediacy of contributions from elite prospects has become more the norm than a deviation.

Last spring Patrik Laine was competing to be the leading scorer in the League since his entry to it, and only at the chalk lines he had to succumb the race to one Alex Ovechkin... and at that time there were two to five rookie-sophomore players on their Draft+1 or +2 seasons most people would consent to call superior to him.

Tempering schmempering.

 

[RibFrabcus]

Last spring Patrik Laine was competing to be the leading scorer in the League since his entry to it, and only at the chalk lines he had to succumb the race to one Alex Ovechkin... and at that time there were two to five rookie-sophomore players on their Draft+1 or +2 seasons most people would consent to call superior to him.

Tempering schmempering.

Lempo-ering

 

[GoldiFox]

Last spring Patrik Laine was competing to be the leading scorer in the League since his entry to it, and only at the chalk lines he had to succumb the race to one Alex Ovechkin... and at that time there were two to five rookie-sophomore players on their Draft+1 or +2 seasons most people would consent to call superior to him.

Tempering schmempering.

Winnipeg fans would have you believe that Laine was a majestic unicorn projected by every source as a generational superstar talent when they got him at #2. Svechnikov was the better prospect and I expect a similar 60 point Rookie year. He likely won't score as many (36) but that is because Svechnikov is the far superior playmaker and not a pure shooter.

 

[bleedgreen]

I’ll take my archaic thought process about 18 year olds and run with it. More and more guys are being used young for sure, doesn’t mean they’re ready or that it’s a good idea. Usually out of necessity.

There’s always been a Laine or a Skinner. There’s always been a Stefan or a Yak.

I just think planning an offense around a player that’s never played a day in the league your team probably doesn’t deserve to make the playoffs, and is setting yourself up for unrealistic expectations for the kid.

He may get 60 pts, and I’d be pumped. Just not expecting it, and hope if he’s featured it’s because he earned it through the process like Skinner and not just handed it like Lindy.