Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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I think it has more to do with our inability to score lately more than anything else.
Recalled/Assigned: Nyquist up, Tatar down
- Thread starter sully6one
- Start date
I think it has more to do with our inability to score lately more than anything else.
joe89
#5
- Apr 30, 2009
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And what would be the reasoning behind that thought?
I see it more as Babcock hates Tatar whenever he doesn't score and then he went on a coldstreak. Meanwhile in the AHL Gus has been on a tear. So they swap them.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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I understand Babcock's fascination with "big bodies" who play "a safe gane". But if you look at our forward group there is a lot of redundancy with players who are responsible defensively, and not enough guys that bring some talent and offensive ability to the table. Seems like we don't have a great balance of skilled guys vs safe guys. I guess Holland did say they were trying to play a different style of game and grind out wins. But I mean somebody has to put the puck in the net.
Nyquist in the top 6 and Tatar on the 3rd line makes perfect sense to me, but I guess they want to go in a different direction.
Nyquist in the top 6 and Tatar on the 3rd line makes perfect sense to me, but I guess they want to go in a different direction.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
Or maybe just waive/trade the two worst forwards (Gator/Cleary) on the team who are complete garbage and probably wouldn't succeed in the AHL?
Just a thought.
If you combined Cleary and Gator into one super player, they would still be terrible.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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They aren't going to send down a center for a winger with Helm still injured. They should scratch Cleary or Miller because they are worthless, but they are Babcock's favorites.
GT500x
Im OK where we're at
I'm not willing to give up on Gator yet. Just stick him on the fourth line wing and tell him to crash into people non-stop.
Henkka
Registered User
Since the Hossa asked to come to Detroit, Holland's record has been pretty weak.
But you have to give Holland credit - especially for the 08 cup run.
First of all, he navigated the return from the cap, shaving off half his payroll while maintaining a competitive club
He made several sharp signings in 06-- Cleary, Samuelsson, Lilja, Osgood etc
Good bargain-basement signings to fill positions
Secondly, he rectified his mistake, fired Lewis and hired Babcock.
Thirdly, as the team was getting better and Datsyuk and Zetterberg took control of the team, he made key decisions.
He let Lang, Schneider and some of the older, slow, one-way guys go.
He added Rafalski and Stuart, to really energize our blueline.
Some will give him lots of credit for McCarty and Drake. I don't think they were that important.
But since then, Holland has gone cold.
I find it mind boggling.
In his limited games and playing time this season, Tatar has two less points than Cleary and Abdelkader combined.
In fact, Tatar has the same amount of even strength points as Cleary and Abdelkader combined.
Why wouldn't a sane person believe this kid couldn't contribute in the top 6, specifically when considering who was currently making up his top 6.
There's absolutely no reason for it IMO. Just a bad decision. Check that: terrible decision.
Yes that was a Jim Rome/South Park reference.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Based on the Mlive articles I have read and my best guess...
I believe the thought process is Babcock does not want 2 guys that he views as "small offensive players who are not responsible defensively" in the line-up at the same time. He believes they can grind out close games with "responsible" and "safe" players in the line-ups and count on the big guns to get them scoring. Having both Nyquist and Tatar in the line-up does accomplish this in Babcock's eyes.
Though I disagree with that philosophy at this given juncture.
disclaimer- this is just my best guess. But based on everything I have gathered from what I have read I feel that's what is happening.
My main point was I don't understand why he wouldn't give Tatar a shot in the top 6, but seems willing with Nyquist.
I've stated my complete disagreement with his lineup and misuse of Cleary, Abdelkader, and Tatar many times.
Cleary and Abdelkader are not good defensively either is the funny part.
I've stated my complete disagreement with his lineup and misuse of Cleary, Abdelkader, and Tatar many times.
Cleary and Abdelkader are not good defensively either is the funny part.
GT500x
Im OK where we're at
None of this makes sense to anyone but those making the decisions and a -very- small number of people. Lion-itus is going around.
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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That's a fair question, I don't really know.
Could be because Nyquist is/was the more productive player in the minors?
In my opinion our best line-up would have Nyquist on a line with Datsyuk and Tatar on the 3rd line. I think that givse us the best possible roster for a playoff push.
Maybe they don't want to take both Tatar and Nyquist from GR so they have a scorer down there?
It's hard to say. I'd love to see a line-up like...
Fil-Z-Brunner
Nyquist-Dats-Franzen
Tatar-Helm/Andersson-Eaves
Cleary-Emmerton-Abby
Never gonna happen though.
ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
- Sep 8, 2008
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My one curiosity is why that all changed? Why has he stopped with the shrewd moves to improve the team?
Seems really weird for a GM who has had success doing certain things to just stop doing that and stand pat year after year.
NooDLE
Registered User
GT500x
Im OK where we're at
I think part of it was that teams were unwilling to cut deals with the Wings and some players weren't willing to come for a reasonable price. There haven't been any good "fits" headed our way for a number of years now. I also happen to think that Holland doesn't know what he has in the minors that he can trade because the prospects don't get good chances to show what they are at the NHL level. This has led him to sign free agents that - in my humble opinion - unnecessarily take roles that some of our prospects could have been filling had they been called up sooner.
Wasn't Tatar leading the team before he got called up? either way, the point difference was not such where you look at it and say "yep completely different potential"
He was leading points (tatar) if I remember correctly. However I believe the comment about potential is that nyquist has "playmaker with 2 way potential" as far as his role where I believe tatar's potential is "2 way potential with goal scoring" tag on him as far as their potentials have been dubbed up to this point by scouts/organizational members.
Holland made mistakes, I think, when he started signing those bargain basement guys to fair market contracts.
In the salary cap world, there are going to be Danny Clearys and Patrick Eaves and Drew Millers and Mikeal Samuelssons and Andreas Liljas on the scrapheap every year.
If you have to pay more than $1.2M to keep them around, then let them walk and go get their replacement.
I give Holland a lot of grief for Franzen vs Hossa, and keeping Franzen.
But what if we don't sign Cleary to a $2,8M/year deal ---
Now, the other problem with all that is... Long term, would we be any better off having Franzen, Hossa, and Zetterberg signed for 12 years each or whatever? I dunno. Maybe a hungry and healthy Hossa helps us past the Sharks one of those years.
But that's beside the point.
I think the cap forced Holland into an uncomfortable situation, and he reacted extremely well.
Now, for whatever reason, he's really, really comfortable. He keeps his players around too long. He goes out and gets players he's already had before.
It's really stale.
Someone needs to get Holland out of his comfort zone. But my guess is that's extremely difficult.
I just got on and hoped this thread was from 2 months ago and I just didn't remember seeing it.
Now I'm raging.
Now I'm raging.
VladTheImpaler
Go Wings
- Feb 27, 2012
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I agree with every single point made in this post. Very well said, Captain.
