Speculation: Nylander IX - All Nylander Discussions HERE

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TheNumber4

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Nov 11, 2011
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Show me one contract comparable that proves he is a 7.5 million player?

P.S. I don't mean to sound rude, just really curious. :)

Any contract I show you will be past contracts with past cap considerations. Unless a contract for a comparable player was signed this year, it'd be fruitless.
 

DanM

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Any contract I show you will be past contracts with past cap considerations. Unless a contract for a comparable player was signed this year, it'd be fruitless.

Even if you take those past contracts, and add the cap increase, I believe that the numbers were below a 500,000 increase. I just don't see a world where Willie is worth 7.5, and I believe the Leafs know this. I credit them for patience.
 

allevat

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Jan 11, 2018
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Quotation marks don't work if you're literally the only person who's ever said what's inside of them. Are Ehlers and Pastrnak severely underpaid at their salaries as well?

Pastrnak is rather underpaid, yes. Also, why do people keep using Pastrnak as a 'comparable', and then complain about Nylander not signing for 8x6 or 8x6.5? Pastrnak was 8.86% of cap when he signed, *and* he signed for only six years. That would be a 6x7 deal currently. Even a Scheifele-like incredibly underpaid 8 year deal would be 6,670,000 under current cap. There was absolutely no way Nylander would sign for 8x6 under the current cap, nor should he have. If the Leafs can't afford more than 6m a year, then the real question was how many years less than 8 was the contract going to be.

Which I would guess is what they are currently wrangling about.
 
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smitty10

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orrrrr he could get 7.5M+ and live in a better city with less pressure and annoying media scrutiny and be even more of a star than he is in Toronto playing 3rd or 4th fiddle. Where he'll be appreciated and PAID for what he's worth. NY, any team in Cali, Vancouver, come to mind. But depending on his personality even Florida and some of the Southern States may work too.
Toronto is a world class city. For a young European millionaire there are very few comparable cities in North America. New York is way more expensive and California is pretty far from Sweden. I also doubt he would be swayed by the weather like we are. He's from Sweden and seems to reside there when he's not playing hockey.

Think of the amenities, security, services and housing options for the rich in Toronto. It's pretty much unbeatable.
 

DanM

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Pastrnak is rather underpaid, yes. Also, why do people keep using Pastrnak as a 'comparable', and then complain about Nylander not signing for 8x6 or 8x6.5? Pastrnak was 8.86% of cap when he signed, *and* he signed for only six years. That would be a 6x7 deal currently. Even a Scheifele-like incredibly underpaid 8 year deal would be 6,670,000 under current cap. There was absolutely no way Nylander would sign for 8x6 under the current cap, nor should he have. If the Leafs can't afford more than 6m a year, then the real question was how many years less than 8 was the contract going to be.

Which I would guess is what they are currently wrangling about.

I agree

At the end of the day though, a deal that is signed, sets the market, or at least I believe it should.

If Pasta is a 70-80 point winger, and no matter what the cap is, signed a contract below what he should be paid, does that not become the new comparable? Even if he should be paid more, how could Willie argue he deserves more, he has not been the better player?

Give him a similar deal to Ehlers, and add the increase for cap, or just give him Pasta money.

But he is not worth what he wants, he just is not.
 

DanM

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Toronto is a world class city. For a young European millionaire there are very few comparable cities in North America. New York is way more expensive and California is pretty far from Sweden. I also doubt he would be swayed by the weather like we are. He's from Sweden and seems to reside there when he's not playing hockey.

Think of the amenities, security, services and housing options for the rich in Toronto. It's pretty much unbeatable.

I am a country boy at heart, and love the west, but I live and work in Toronto. I find most people who put down a city, have not really experienced it. I am not NHL player wealthy, but I am very, very comfortable, and it is amazing what you can do with money here lol

So if you are making between 6-11 (JT) million a year, it must be glorious.
 
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Brobust

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Sep 29, 2017
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orrrrr he could get 7.5M+ and live in a better city with less pressure and annoying media scrutiny and be even more of a star than he is in Toronto playing 3rd or 4th fiddle. Where he'll be appreciated and PAID for what he's worth. NY, any team in Cali, Vancouver, come to mind. But depending on his personality even Florida and some of the Southern States may work too.

I'd like to apologize to Jets fans for making these types of idiotic comments when Jacob Trouba was holding out.
 

DanM

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First three years in the league:
Draisaitl: 191 games, 50 goals, 137 points
Nylander: 185 games, 48 goals, 135 points

One is a centre (or I guess has played as one) so one could make an argument Willie could be a million away from him. I would say that most hockey people feel that Drai and his contract are absurdly overpriced, but I can see where you are going with it.

In my opinion it would be the only real comparable in the higher price range.

But it would never happen, no matter what Willie and his people want. Too many other winger contracts that are much more comparable.
 
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nturn06

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Nov 9, 2017
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One is a centre (or I guess has played as one) so one could make an argument Willie could be a million away from him. I would say that most hockey people feel that Drai and his contract are absurdly overpriced, but I can see where you are going with it.

In my opinion it would be the only real comparable in the higher price range.

Unfortunately for TML what people feel is irrelevant for negotiations. The TML fans feel that Nylander should take a paycut, the Nylander camps feels that he deserves 8 mils. These are irrelevant.
The reality is that, overpaid or not, the Draisaitl contract and the numbers gives Nylander real ammo for the negotiations.

BTW: isn't it funny that we are often told by TML fans that Nylander can play center (if I recall right the selling point was the WC where he was center and MVP), and that Draisaitl is playing better as a winger, yet Nylander should be payed less because he is not a C and Drai is....
 
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DownGoesMcDavid

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Apr 17, 2017
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Keep holding out Willy !!

Get Paid!

I still think anything over 6.25 mil/year and TML is screwed!

All offence and no defence.

Best thing to do is trade Nylander or Marner for a stud Dman. Until then they have no business being a cup favorite which is the case according to some Vegas Books. I guess it will be considered quite the "choke job" if they dont get out of thr 1st or 2nd rnd this year if thats the case.
 
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Danny1237

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Jun 12, 2016
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I agree

At the end of the day though, a deal that is signed, sets the market, or at least I believe it should.

If Pasta is a 70-80 point winger, and no matter what the cap is, signed a contract below what he should be paid, does that not become the new comparable? Even if he should be paid more, how could Willie argue he deserves more, he has not been the better player?

Give him a similar deal to Ehlers, and add the increase for cap, or just give him Pasta money.

But he is not worth what he wants, he just is not.

The "market" is whatever the most you can get today is, that is what he is fighting for, the most he can get on a deal he is comfortable with.

If Pastranak's deal is the ceiling, which is fair, since he is a better player, but also on a deal most would call team friendly, then the real ceiling for Willy's deal is ~$7.05M on 6 years, ~$7.45M on 7, and $7.85M on 8 assuming that each additional year of that deal costs you about another 0.5% of the cap.

So if the Leafs get Willy for anything under those deals against those terms, he would be on what is considered a team friendly deal.

The Leafs are coming in low, using Ehlers because obviously they want a team friendly deal, Nylander is coming out asking for $8Mx8 years cause he wants to fall as little under those ceilings as possible. The big problem is the Leafs are also looking to shave off years to save cap space, where Nylander seems more intent on getting close to max years.

Everyone talks about a $2M gap, the real gap isn't that, but there seems to also be a gap in the number of years as well.

The other part of this is that neither side was under any real early pressure to get this done. The Leafs are only worried about the Dec 1 deadline. They started the season strong, and their division set up makes it likely they will make the playoffs even with a slower start. This dragging on likely means even when everything is finalised, the cap AAV calculation will increase the first year AAV while lowering it in later years, which is actually to their advantage.

From Nylander's point of view, he isn't losing out on money at the rate people are guessing. The Leafs can easily afford to pay him most of his first year salary in a signing bonus, so realistically, if they do that and pay him $1M this year in salary, he's losing more like $5500 a day not $35,000. This makes the gamble to get even an additional $100,000 a year worthwhile when we are talking about a multi year deal.

This was always likely to be the Leafs toughest negotiation. It was first up, it sets a precedent, and the player likely represents the most uncertainty of the bunch (at the time he will need to sign) of what he really is, there was new management immediately in place the team has big negotiations to deal with directly after it, and neither side was in a situation where they lose much by taking their time and being patient.
 
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FerrisRox

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Sep 17, 2003
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OK thanks.. Here's a link to just the article:

Sources: "William Nylander Deal Is Imminent, Within 48 Hours At The Latest" — Dean Blundell's Sports, News, Podcast Network

Sounds like a lot of money for a bridge deal though.

Wow, if that's true its a huge win for Gross and Nylander. The Leafs would be handing him, on a bridge deal, what they wanted to give him on a long-term deal.

If this is true - and the source is rather dubious - I wonder why Dubas folded his tent so easily. Doesn't make a lot of sense from the point of view of the Maple Leafs and this would have the agents for Marner and Matthews ecstatic.
 

34

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Mar 26, 2010
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Never made any claims regarding Nylanders' happiness in Toronto or his want for a trade. Nor did I say anything about trading him for defence. You seem to have issues identifying the subject of the conversation you are in engaged in. This is about Nylander and him getting paid what he's worth. Not about what he should return in a trade and not about the Oilers.
His Value is based on comparables, the same narrative as real estate. If you look at Ehlers and Pasta... he falls in the middle. $6M-$6.6M. That is his value!

Just because Edmonton shit the bed and gave Draisaitl $8.5M... other teams are not going to make the same mistake. Just brutal.
 

Brock Radunske

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Aug 8, 2012
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Keep holding out Willy !!

Get Paid!

I still think anything over 6.25 mil/year and TML is screwed!

All offence and no defence.

Best thing to do is trade Nylander or Marner for a stud Dman. Until then they have no business being a cup favorite which is the case according to some Vegas Books. I guess it will be considered quite the "choke job" if they dont get out of thr 1st or 2nd rnd this year if thats the case.

How did that work out with the Hall trade?
 
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DanM

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Oct 2, 2017
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The "market" is whatever the most you can get today is, that is what he is fighting for, the most he can get on a deal he is comfortable with.

If Pastranak's deal is the ceiling, which is fair, since he is a better player, but also on a deal most would call team friendly, then the real ceiling for Willy's deal is ~$7.05M on 6 years, ~$7.45M on 7, and $7.85M on 8 assuming that each additional year of that deal costs you about another 0.5% of the cap.

So if the Leafs get Willy for anything under those deals against those terms, he would be on what is considered a team friendly deal.

The Leafs are coming in low, using Ehlers because obviously they want a team friendly deal, Nylander is coming out asking for $8Mx8 years cause he wants to fall as little under those ceilings as possible. The big problem is the Leafs are also looking to shave off years to save cap space, where Nylander seems more intent on getting close to max years.

Everyone talks about a $2M gap, the real gap isn't that, but there seems to also be a gap in the number of years as well.

The other part of this is that neither side was under any real early pressure to get this done. The Leafs are only worried about the Dec 1 deadline. They started the season strong, and their division set up makes it likely they will make the playoffs even with a slower start. This dragging on likely means even when everything is finalised, the cap AAV calculation will increase the first year AAV while lowering it in later years, which is actually to their advantage.

From Nylander's point of view, he isn't losing out on money at the rate people are guessing. The Leafs can easily afford to pay him most of his first year salary in a signing bonus, so realistically, if they do that and pay him $1M this year in salary, he's losing more like $5500 a day not $35,000. This makes the gamble to get even an additional $100,000 a year worthwhile when we are talking about a multi year deal.

This was always likely to be the Leafs toughest negotiation. It was first up, it sets a precedent, and the player likely represents the most uncertainty of the bunch (at the time he will need to sign) of what he really is, there was new management immediately in place the team has big negotiations to deal with directly after it, and neither side was in a situation where they lose much by taking their time and being patient.


Well thought out.

I think I would rather see him come in under Pasta (obviously lol) but the cap has increased. I would understand a cap hit of just over 7 million for 6 years, considering the cap has increased 6%, and if they were comparable players.

The fact is still that Pasta is better, and Willie should get less, team friendly or not (pastas contract)

In the end, if Willie got exactly the same contract as Pasta, I could live with that. I just don't believe he should be in the 7's or 8's.
 

93gilmour93

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Feb 27, 2010
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Wow, if that's true its a huge win for Gross and Nylander. The Leafs would be handing him, on a bridge deal, what they wanted to give him on a long-term deal.

If this is true - and the source is rather dubious - I wonder why Dubas folded his tent so easily. Doesn't make a lot of sense from the point of view of the Maple Leafs and this would have the agents for Marner and Matthews ecstatic.
I'd say it's a win for both sides if they get the contract done for 2-3 years. Curious how you would view it as Dubas folding his tent?
 

Frank Drebin

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I'd say it's a win for both sides if they get the contract done for 2-3 years. Curious how you would view it as Dubas folding his tent?
If the rumors are true what dubas wanted to sign him for he (4yrs,20m) should have folded his tent long ago.

Leafs fans would be happy if he signs what he is worth (ehlers\pasta type deals) and Dubas has been trying to chisel him down to take a couple million less than that in the name of "winning". Nylander and his agent are having none of it.
 

mouser

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93gilmour93

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Feb 27, 2010
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If the rumors are true what dubas wanted to sign him for he (4yrs,20m) should have folded his tent long ago.

Leafs fans would be happy if he signs what he is worth (ehlers\pasta type deals) and Dubas has been trying to chisel him down to take a couple million less than that in the name of "winning". Nylander and his agent are having none of it.
Hard to say which rumours are true. We've heard the nylander camp won't move off the 8 million a year ask and the leafs were looking in the 6 million range with both sides wanting a long term deal. That's not looking like it will happen so we are down to the 2-3 year bridge deal and can revisit the situation in a few years with the Marleau,Gardiner,Hainsey contracts off the books. With a yearly rising cap and expansion on the horizon putting more money into the league thus making the cap number rise it's a win for the leafs and nylander in the future.
 
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