Speculation: Nylander IX - All Nylander Discussions HERE

[smitty10]

Nylander + Matthews for a winger mooching off MacKinnon? Really?

You don't think Rantanen and Landeskog are worth Nylander?

The argument could be made that Nylander mooches off Matthews. It isn't true, they compliment each other. The same thing is true of Colorado's big line.

This isn't Josh Bailey or Matt Moulson playing with Tavares. These are all good, high end players.

 

[34]

No NHLer would suffer at even 1M per year. So by your logic, everyone should be paid $1M, LOVE OF THE GAME RIGHT? But in any case, 6.5M is a severe underpay and Nylander would be pretty stupid to take that long term.
Im sure Nylander wants to win. Who doesn't. But why should he be the one to sacrifice his life's work for the chance? But of course, Toronto fans will say he should because Toronto fans "deserve a Dynasty," whatever the F that even means.

So getting paid that extra $1M AAV is worth a career of mediocrity and losing?

Also, playing in Toronto and being star player in T.O come with endorsements that you would never get playing in other markets. T.O is the biggest hockey market in the world. Not to mention it is a huge World Class City! Players want to be there.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Term is very important. As it affects the cap hit. If it's a bridge. I would say Nylander will be as good as gone at the end of the bridge.

Either way its a win for the Leafs. We can trade him and get good value or we resign him. Nylander seems to think he will become a ppg player but I expect him in the 65-75 point range and after the 3 yrs we should be able to get him in the 8-8.5 range. So really if this is the deal even at 6.5x3 I am 100% ok with it

 

[member 157595]

If a negotiation is fair. A deal is reached pretty quickly with your standard negotation dance. Now when one side is being unreasonable, irrational, and unfair (Toronto management) then you get the stalemates and the trade proposals like you are seeing play out right now 9 games into the season.

You have absolutely no evidence to suggest that Toronto isn't being fair here. You have no idea which party is impeding the negotiations and have chosen to blame the Leafs because you hate the Leafs. It is quite transparent so don't try to claim otherwise.

I am a Leafs fan and we very well COULD be the party that is holding this up. I don't know if that's true and you damn well don't either. You choose to believe that the Leafs are being unreasonable, irrational and unfair (your words) and that we have an entitled fanbase that feel we deserve a dynasty (again, your words). Based on your above comments, why should anyone take your opinions on this contract negotiation seriously?

 

[Taluss]

It's definitely not the preferred outcome. Anything is possible at this point. If they haven't made progress by the end of the week, I wouldn't be surprised if serious trade talks start ramping up. The Leafs can't wait forever. Nylander is a quality asset that is needed in their lineup. If he won't play they'll have to trade him for someone who will.

Very well said, pretty much my exact thoughts

 

[DanM]

You don't think Rantanen and Landeskog are worth Nylander?

The argument could be made that Nylander mooches off Matthews. It isn't true, they compliment each other. The same thing is true of Colorado's big line.

This isn't Josh Bailey or Matt Moulson playing with Tavares. These are all good, high end players.

Did somebody suggest both Nylander and Matthews for one of Rantanen or Landeskog?

Are they taking advantage of the legal weed a little too much? lol

 

[Kamiccolo]

You don't think Rantanen and Landeskog are worth Nylander?

The argument could be made that Nylander mooches off Matthews. It isn't true, they compliment each other. The same thing is true of Colorado's big line.

This isn't Josh Bailey or Matt Moulson playing with Tavares. These are all good, high end players.

That post said add Matthews to Nylander.

 

[TheNumber4]

If Nylander was signed to 5.8 for 8 years that would be one of the best deals in the NHL. It's well reported the expected 8 year deal starts with a 7.

At 7.0M he'd be a bargain and would be gifting the Leafs his talents at an underpay. I think he realizes this, and it shows with how this negotiation is playing out. I mean, didn't Dubas fly half way around the world to try to force him to come down. Kind of shows how far they are willing to go to get him to agree to a deal against his own best interest.

 

[smitty10]

"Winning" which isn't a guarantee vs. being paid for your lifes' work and your parent's hard work. IMO, it'd be pretty stupid to undercut yourself for someone else's decades long dreams that have nothing to do with you.

I agreed with you in my previous post. I just argued that it's not about entitlement from fans and management, but instead is about the prospect of winning. As I said, for fans it's very easy to lost sight on the human element. The money is very important to the player as it should be. From a fans perspective though winning is the most important thing.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If Nylander was signed to 5.8 for 8 years that would be one of the best deals in the NHL. It's well reported the expected 8 year deal starts with a 7.

Neither of these things happened. So this point is rather useless. 5,8 - 6.3 for a bridge deal is on the high side. It is good for Nylander since he is getting paid a good chunk of money that others are getting for on much longer deals. And he knows when his bridge is up, he is going to ask for even more then. I can see this being a win for only Nylander when this is punted down the road.

 

[smitty10]

That post said add Matthews to Nylander.

Did somebody suggest both Nylander and Matthews for one of Rantanen or Landeskog?

Are they taking advantage of the legal weed a little too much? lol

I believe he was joking.

 

[TheNumber4]

So getting paid that extra $1M AAV is worth a career of mediocrity and losing?

Also, playing in Toronto and being star player in T.O come with endorsements that you would never get playing in other markets. T.O is the biggest hockey market in the world. Not to mention it is a huge World Class City! Players want to be there.

orrrrr he could get 7.5M+ and live in a better city with less pressure and annoying media scrutiny and be even more of a star than he is in Toronto playing 3rd or 4th fiddle. Where he'll be appreciated and PAID for what he's worth. NY, any team in Cali, Vancouver, come to mind. But depending on his personality even Florida and some of the Southern States may work too.

 

[34]

That post said add Matthews to Nylander.

For who!

Could not have been a serious post. I am sure they were being sarcastic.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Neither of these things happened. So this point is rather useless.

Your post was LITERALLY about a bridge deal that hasn't happened so not sure what you are even trying to say here.

5,8 - 6.3 for a bridge deal is on the high side.

I agree unless it is for 4 years.

It is good for Nylander since he is getting paid a good chunk of money that others are getting for on much longer deals.

And if he doesn't progress or gets injured or many other things he is leaving potentially 20+M on the table. There are draw backs as well.

And he knows when his bridge is up, he is going to ask for even more then.

This is how bridge deals work, yes.

I can see this being a win for only Nylander when this is punted down the road.

Or it could be a loss for him as well. Like I said above, it could work or it could not for him. He could get traded to a bottom feeder while still being a RFA and be stuck on a bad team in a poor hockey town with no sponsorships and they might hard ball him like the Leafs have because they can't afford to pay him (think Arizona).

Either way, you didn't address my point that you are on one hand claiming that a source is 100% correct about a bridge deal while ignoring the other reports saying that the expected salary starts with a 7.

And if he signs a bridge for less, you will vanish. Or show up claiming he hates the Leafs and Dubas ripped him off and he will tell players not to go to Toronto or some nonesense.

 

[34]

orrrrr he could get 7.5M+ and live in a better city with less pressure and annoying media scrutiny and be even more of a star than he is in Toronto playing 3rd or 4th fiddle. Where he'll be appreciated and PAID for what he's worth. NY, any team in Cali, Vancouver, come to mind. But depending on his personality even Florida and some of the Southern States may work too.

Nylander is happy in Toronto. He does not want a trade.

So by your logic, Toronto needs to trade Nylander to a team like VAN, for an old injury prone garbage D man to make them way better.... while making the Leafs worse.

No thanks. We will pass. We are not doing Vancouver any favours.

This is where Toronto locks up their young elite players and goes for the dynasty.

 

[Ciao]

[MOD]

What's reported sounds pretty good for both sides and everyone except those who can't stand the Leafs. I feel the temperature rising . . . right to the number . . . ?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yes and no, nobody can say for sure he would be gone, a lot could happen in 3-4 years. However, we also can't win them all, if he does light the league on fire during his bridge, we will get a TON back in return, plus we will still be drafting and developing, as that is at the core of what Shanny and Dubas believe in.

This will not be an organization that will subtract and not replace.

The only way I see Nylander back after his bridge is if Matthews or Marner are no longer Leafs. Tavares is 77M locked in for 7 years. Given how high Nylander priced himself this round of negotiations off a pair of 61 pts seasons. I can't see the price being lower after the bridge. Do you think it will be? Just not likely is it?

 

[DanM]

orrrrr he could get 7.5M+ and live in a better city with less pressure and annoying media scrutiny and be even more of a star than he is in Toronto playing 3rd or 4th fiddle. Where he'll be appreciated and PAID for what he's worth. NY, any team in Cali, Vancouver, come to mind. But depending on his personality even Florida and some of the Southern States may work too.

I will agree with you on the media scrutiny, I can't imagine dealing with it daily.

City wise, Toronto is more than fine, TOR and MTL are the hockey meccas. If you are a player that can deal with the media, there is no better place to play. You are always in the spotlight as a star, endorsements, fanbase etc.

Pay wise, he should get paid what he is worth, 6-6.75, this is his worth, and I am sure the Leafs would be fine with that. Also, you play on a young talented team, which many other cities don't offer.

Now, for me, I like sunshine, outdoors, and less media BS. So if I had the chance to play anywhere on the west coast, that would be amazing. As I said though, hockey wise, MTL and TOR are the best places to play.

 

[DanM]

The only way I see Nylander back after his bridge is if Matthews or Marner are no longer Leafs. Tavares is 77M locked in for 7 years. Given how high Nylander priced himself this round of negotiations off a pair of 61 pts seasons. I can't see the price being lower after the bridge. Do you think it will be? Just not likely is it?

I feel you could be right. I don't see a time where Matty and Marner are not here, but I can see a time when Willie is moved. I can see Nylander asking for the moon on his next round of negotiations. It will be interesting to say the least lol

I do see the Leafs maximizing the return on Willie if he is moved. I think most scenarios will go in the favour of the team.

 

[TheNumber4]

Nylander is happy in Toronto. He does not want a trade.

So by your logic, Toronto needs to trade Nylander to a team like VAN, for an old injury prone garbage D man to make them way better.... while making the Leafs worse.

No thanks. We will pass. We are not doing Vancouver any favours.

This is where Toronto locks up their young elite players and goes for the dynasty.

Never made any claims regarding Nylanders' happiness in Toronto or his want for a trade. Nor did I say anything about trading him for defence. You seem to have issues identifying the subject of the conversation you are in engaged in. This is about Nylander and him getting paid what he's worth. Not about what he should return in a trade and not about the Oilers.

 

[DanM]

Never made any claims regarding Nylanders' happiness in Toronto or his want for a trade. Nor did I say anything about trading him for defence. You seem to have issues identifying the subject of the conversation you are in engaged in. This is about Nylander and him getting paid what he's worth. Not about what he should return in a trade and not about the Oilers.

The thing is, no matter what we all say, or what we all feel.

Willie is not worth 8+ million. Willie is not yet worth 7-7.5 million. Even when you take in the cap increase since other contracts such as Ehlers and Pasta, he is at best worth 6.75.

 

[TheNumber4]

The thing is, no matter what we all say, or what we all feel.

Willie is not worth 8+ million. Willie is not yet worth 7-7.5 million. Even when you take in the cap increase since other contracts such as Ehlers and Pasta, he is at best worth 6.75.

Disagree. I think he's definitely in the 7.5M + range with cap considerations and market considerations. And I think him and his agent know this which is why this negotiation is going no where.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I feel you could be right. I don't see a time where Matty and Marner are not here, but I can see a time when Willie is moved. I can see Nylander asking for the moon on his next round of negotiations. It will be interesting to say the least lol

I do see the Leafs maximizing the return on Willie if he is moved. I think most scenarios will go in the favour of the team.

This is if Blundell is right. He is credible so we will see. Also interesting to see if there is a NTC Nylander will likely insist on. Gross has made quite the name for himself as a hard driving agent if 5,8-6.3 for a bridge is correct. If there is a NMC. Then he's just upped his stock as an agent.

 

[DanM]

Disagree. I think he's definitely in the 7.5M + range with cap considerations and market considerations. And I think him and his agent know this which is why this negotiation is going no where.

Show me one contract comparable that proves he is a 7.5 million player?

P.S. I don't mean to sound rude, just really curious.

 

[DanM]

This is if Blundell is right. He is credible so we will see. Also interesting to see if there is a NTC Nylander will likely insist on. Gross has made quite the name for himself as a hard driving agent if 5,8-6.3 for a bridge is correct. If there is a NMC. Then he's just upped his stock as an agent.

I could be wrong, but is a NMC not allowed when you are an RFA?