Nylander Discussion

[Menzinger]

You are on record as saying points should be used as comparables. If nylander was worth 7mm after 61 points, why is Marners 11.9mm contract so eggregious after 93? The double standards are amazing here

Beacuse based on most contract comparisons - ie like those put forward by EvolvingWild - had him making in the 9-10 mil range over 6 years. And he fell outside that range.

Edit: these contract discussions still so boring at this point. This was my last word on it in this thread

 

[meefer]

Arguing about a player's contract is something I can't understand. It's signed, sealed and delivered. There's nothing you can do about it, why obsess?

Arguing about a player's on ice skills, efforts and results...I can get behind that.

Love Nylander's skills. Frustrated by his efforts, kid, you've got so much more to give. Results, given his efforts, they're about where they should be given his low shooting percentage.

I'd ask, though some would argue it's (cap wise) an inefficient use of his salary, would Nylander thrive as 3C on this team and would Kerfoot be able to replace Nylander's contributions on Matthew's wing?

 

[Notsince67]

Beacuse based on most contract comparisons - ie like those put forward by EvolvingWild - had him making in the 9-10 mil range over 6 years. And he fell outside that range.

Edit: these contract discussions still so boring at this point. This was my last word on itnin this thread

Evolving wild had Matthews 9.9MM for 5 years and Marner at 8.8MM for 6. Panarin for 10.4 for 7 and Laine...5 for 2.


Double standards. I get why you dont want to talk about it.
I prefer to let contracts lie where they are but you cant be slamming Marners contract while ignoring your favorite players.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Arguing about a player's contract is something I can't understand. It's signed, sealed and delivered. There's nothing you can do about it, why obsess?

Arguing about a player's on ice skills, efforts and results...I can get behind that.

Love Nylander's skills. Frustrated by his efforts, kid, you've got so much more to give. Results, given his efforts, they're about where they should be given his low shooting percentage.

I'd ask, though some would argue it's (cap wise) an inefficient use of his salary, would Nylander thrive as 3C on this team and would Kerfoot be able to replace Nylander's contributions on Matthew's wing?

I’m so with you on the contract talks about anyone after the fact ...
Personally I don’t care even before or during

 

[Gallagbi]

Arguing about a player's contract is something I can't understand. It's signed, sealed and delivered. There's nothing you can do about it, why obsess?

Arguing about a player's on ice skills, efforts and results...I can get behind that.

Love Nylander's skills. Frustrated by his efforts, kid, you've got so much more to give. Results, given his efforts, they're about where they should be given his low shooting percentage.

I'd ask, though some would argue it's (cap wise) an inefficient use of his salary, would Nylander thrive as 3C on this team and would Kerfoot be able to replace Nylander's contributions on Matthew's wing?

Whats the difference? Were not impacting anything here anyways, it's all just opinions

 

[Menzinger]

Evolving wild had Matthews 9.9MM for 5 years and Marner at 8.8MM for 6. Panarin for 10.4 for 7 and Laine...5 for 2.


Double standards. I get why you dont want to talk about it.
I prefer to let contracts lie where they are but you cant be slamming Marners contract while ignoring your favorite players.

I dont recall.having particularly firm opinions on the Laine or Panarin contracts lol.

Nor do i really understand why you care so much about my position on Marner's deal lol. It was an overpayment. Lets just leave it at that

 

[Notsince67]

I dont recall.having particularly firm opinions on the Laine or Panarin contracts lol.

Nor do i really understand why you care so much about my position on Marner's deal lol. It was an overpayment. Lets just leave it at that

I added the 2 to point out the fallacy of the source you used to point out Marners overpayment while maintaining both Nylander and Matthews are adequately paid. Im not the one harping on their contracts. What is done is done and it is ok to say they were all overpaid. By your source, Matthews and Marner are pretty close to being equally overpaid.

 

[hfman]

I added the 2 to point out the fallacy of the source you used to point out Marners overpayment while maintaining both Nylander and Matthews are adequately paid. Im not the one harping on their contracts. What is done is done and it is ok to say they were all overpaid. By your source, Matthews and Marner are pretty close to being equally overpaid.

they are not equally overpaid

they are inequally overpaid

they are both adequately paid

they are both inadequately overpaid

they are both paid over inequally

they are both paid in equal to overpayments

overpayments are equal to thr

that is something you simply can't argue with

 

[Notsince67]

they are not equally overpaid

they are inequally overpaid

they are both adequately paid

they are both inadequately overpaid

they are both paid over inequally

they are both paid in equal to overpayments

overpayments are equal to thr

that is something you simply can't argue with

a bit more tonic in your vodka might be in order

 

[meefer]

Whats the difference? Were not impacting anything here anyways, it's all just opinions

I'm guessing you're talking about the difference between signed contracts and on ice performance? My view: the first is settled and nothing can be done about it, the second deals with hopeful outcomes and discussions of usage, efforts and why things aren't what we want and how they can be improved...opinion stuff. If I'm wrong about your intended comparison, oops.

 

[Gallagbi]

I'm guessing you're talking about the difference between signed contracts and on ice performance? My view: the first is settled and nothing can be done about it, the second deals with hopeful outcomes and discussions of usage, efforts and why things aren't what we want and how they can be improved...opinion stuff. If I'm wrong about your intended comparison, oops.

My thought is neither are within our control and were all just discussing opinions. In a cap world, value matters and helps shape expectations. It's ko different than talking systems, options, etc... To me at least

 

[Bomber0104]

I dont recall.having particularly firm opinions on the Laine or Panarin contracts lol.

Nor do i really understand why you care so much about my position on Marner's deal lol. It was an overpayment. Lets just leave it at that

What about Matthews?

What about Nylander?

What about Tavares?

 

[Bomber0104]

All these comparisons to Pastrnak based on the player he is now is nonsensical. He's one of the best players in the league. That's a ridiculous standard to set for expectations on Nylander.

But when he was signed, he wasn't was he? This is the lamest rationalization I've ever read.

One team (Hint: Boston) signed a player based on the player's potential, the other paid top dollar for his ceiling.

How does that make you feel better?

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Evolving wild had Matthews 9.9MM for 5 years and Marner at 8.8MM for 6. Panarin for 10.4 for 7 and Laine...5 for 2.


Double standards. I get why you dont want to talk about it.
I prefer to let contracts lie where they are but you cant be slamming Marners contract while ignoring your favorite players.

EvolvingWild had Nylander at 6.3 mill too. How are there other people pissed with his 0.6 mill overpayment when according to EvolvingWild's projections, Matthews is overpaid by 1.5-ish mill and Marner overpaid by 2-ish mill?

Dubas main weakness (one of the very few) is his contract negotiations with his star players (not non-star players), and he's only overpaid them in total by 4.0 - 4.5 million. A team like Boston for example pay Backes 6 mill to be useless. The only issue I have with the contracts is that they should have all been 7 or 8 year contracts, but whatever.

 

[egd27]

Edit: these contract discussions still so boring at this point. This was my last word on it in this thread

I dont recall.having particularly firm opinions on the Laine or Panarin contracts lol.

Nor do i really understand why you care so much about my position on Marner's deal lol. It was an overpayment. Lets just leave it at that

So you're really done now?

 

[Beyonder91]

Beacuse based on most contract comparisons - ie like those put forward by EvolvingWild - had him making in the 9-10 mil range over 6 years. And he fell outside that range.

Edit: these contract discussions still so boring at this point. This was my last word on it in this thread

Been over this in some other threads but Evolving wilds projections have some big flaws.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Been over this in some other threads but Evolving wilds projections have some big flaws.

Just curious, could you post that here too or PM me what the flaws are?

 

[horner]

Evolving wild had Matthews 9.9MM for 5 years and Marner at 8.8MM for 6. Panarin for 10.4 for 7 and Laine...5 for 2.

you nailed it
Double standards. I get why you dont want to talk about it.
I prefer to let contracts lie where they are but you cant be slamming Marners contract while ignoring your favorite players.

 

[horner]

EvolvingWild had Nylander at 6.3 mill too. How are there other people pissed with his 0.6 mill overpayment when according to EvolvingWild's projections, Matthews is overpaid by 1.5-ish mill and Marner overpaid by 2-ish mill?

Dubas main weakness (one of the very few) is his contract negotiations with his star players (not non-star players), and he's only overpaid them in total by 4.0 - 4.5 million. A team like Boston for example pay Backes 6 mill to be useless. The only issue I have with the contracts is that they should have all been 7 or 8 year contracts, but whatever.

you nailed it.

 

[Beyonder91]

Just curious, could you post that here too or PM me what the flaws are?

The model is pretty accurate on a macro level but on a micro level it has serious issues with term and adjusting values for term properly.
The model also doesn't take into account a teams internal cap situation. So I mean in a vacuum it is decent but in the real world it's flawed.

 

[mapleleaf979]

9:10 left in the first period. Watch Nylander along the wall turn to skate the puck out and D is pinching and gonna hit him, he skates away from the puck to avoid the contact and the D keeps the puck in. I cant watch Nylander anymore. I dont want to be held hostage by him showing up when he wants, competes when he wants. U cant win with soft players like this, imagine the players with heart and compete watching Nylander avoid all contact to preserve himself. Leafs wont go anywhere when Matthews playmaking winger disappears, doesnt care for 60 games a year.

 

[rumman]

9:10 left in the first period. Watch Nylander along the wall turn to skate the puck out and D is pinching and gonna hit him, he skates away from the puck to avoid the contact and the D keeps the puck in. I cant watch Nylander anymore. I dont want to be held hostage by him showing up when he wants, competes when he wants. U cant win with soft players like this, imagine the players with heart and compete watching Nylander avoid all contact to preserve himself. Leafs wont go anywhere when Matthews playmaking winger disappears, doesnt care for 60 games a year.

you knew when he got hit on the first shift it was going to be a off night for WN.

 

[Polaris1010]

9:10 left in the first period. Watch Nylander along the wall turn to skate the puck out and D is pinching and gonna hit him, he skates away from the puck to avoid the contact and the D keeps the puck in. I cant watch Nylander anymore. I dont want to be held hostage by him showing up when he wants, competes when he wants. U cant win with soft players like this, imagine the players with heart and compete watching Nylander avoid all contact to preserve himself. Leafs wont go anywhere when Matthews playmaking winger disappears, doesnt care for 60 games a year.

Yup, exactly what I saw too.

Also, that Matthews line always getting scored on.

So damn overrated that line.

It is like all the other teams know what to do.

Let them skate it in. Then lean on Nylander or Johnsson when they have the puck, they will give it up just like that. Then everyone go straight up ice as the Leafs wingers will not bother to come back.

When was the last time Tyler Meyers scored a goal?

 

[rumman]

Yup, exactly what I saw too.

Also, that Matthews line always getting scored on.

So damn overrated that line.

It is like all the other teams know what to do.

Let them skate it in. Then lean on Nylander or Johnsson when they have the puck, they will give it up just like that. Then everyone go straight up ice as the Leafs wingers will not bother to come back.

When was the last time Tyler Meyers scored a goal?

wrong Myers.

 

[mcleex]

Terrible player, shows up on the scoreboard once every 10 games in a very flashy way so it tricks people into thinking he's good. Not the type of player you win with

He's got no balls, afraid of any type of contact. Gets paid more than Larkin and Pastrnak which makes it that much worse, but thats another story. We got Dubass to thank for that