SJinNewJersey
Every single one of us, the devil inside
And you had to reply twice? Will you next be saying "I am rubber and you're glue"?
Confirmed Trade: [NYI/NJD] Kyle Palmieri, Travis Zajac (both @50%) for AJ Greer, M Jobst, 21 1st, cdnl 22/23 3rd/4th
- Thread starter MMC
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Pure Slaughter Value
Registered User
Makes perfect sense to me, Devs got a first during a rebuild. One more dart thrown at the board hoping for a regular in a couple of years. They could've just held onto him and hope he'd want to sign during the offseason but why do that if you can get something out of trading him. They didn't want to burn bridges and handled it professionally. They put him in a good spot literally right next to home as well. If the Isles can't pitch him an offer he likes Devs could have him right back (they still could but I'm guessing he'd want to finish his career in a spot where's he in a playoff race the rest of his career).
I am sorta rooting for the Devs though they play in the same division. Don't have the same hate I have for Wash, NYR and Pennsylvania.
By that logic the devils will also have nothing to show for it unless they win a cup with the assets.It will be OK. You don't need to cry to Mommy when someone disagrees with your take on something. Like I said before, after the playoffs, Isles will have nothing to show for this trade unless they win the cup. However, the Devils will.
SJinNewJersey
Every single one of us, the devil inside
The Isles chances are much better this year, after this trade. They could also resign Palms, or perhaps even Zajac. However, if they don't win this year, what will they have to show for this deal?
On the other hand, the Devils will get a couple picks. one being in the 1st round, that they will have control of for the next several seasons. We shall see what becomes of the pick, with the Devils window opening soon, it could become an asset leading to a cup. Time will tell.
Devil made me do it
Registered User
That's an interesting way to look at it. But from a Devils perspective, we get a 1st and 3rd/4th for two players that most likely weren't going to be resigned after the season. Two rentals basically. That 1st rounder could be a 20-25 overall pick. You can get a solid NHL starter in that range.
Hall trade got us a great prospect in Dawson Mercer.
So both teams got assets that may or may not lead to a cup win. Seems like a weird thing to devalue for one team and not for the other, but OK. Still, you are dodging the point. Would you say the Devils gave up Palmieiri and Zajac with nothing to show for it if these assets returned don't end up leading to a cup win for NJ?
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
You’re incapable of understanding the irony in all of this so I highly doubt you’d understand what a browser issue is.
SJinNewJersey
Every single one of us, the devil inside
My posts have been to say the Devils did not get "fleeced", as one juvenile poster keeps insisting. I happen to think its a good trade for both teams with where they are at. However, in the long run, the ultimate goal is to win a cup or cups. Now, you still have not answered my question, if the Isles don't win this year, what will they have to show for this deal? Will you still be happy they made the deal?
CupHolders
Really Fries My Bananas!
- Aug 8, 2006
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I know this was not posed to me. But as an Isles fan... If they win several rounds and put up a competitive attempt in being eliminated (similar to last playoffs). Then I would be happy with this deal.
While winning the cup is the ultimate goal, all too often people discard the necessary and incremental improvements needed to get there. As a fan since the 1980's I already have seen several Islander prospects and rebuilds laid waste because the organization wouldn't invest in being competitive in the playoffs.
Barzal, Pulock, Pelech and now Wahlstrom, Sorokin, Dobson will have several playoff rounds of experience well before the likes of Tavares, Okposo, Neilsen and Bailey ever had a chance to even make the playoffs. I could only imagine where the Isles would have been if they had invested a bit more on veteran talent.
Finally, with that all said the Islanders "brand" has been so abused by previous ownership and management that just achieving some competitive normalcy is an enormous accomplishment. Inevitably, nothing but wining a cup will be acceptable. But a year of spending on talent to improve their chances in the playoffs (even without winning a cup) just before entering a new arena is still an important accomplishment for THIS specific franchise.
With that said, I think the market this year will show that the the Devils did well. Also while I do hope the Devils get the last pick in the first round. I also hope they are the team that finds one of the steals in the draft at that pick... The next Bergeron, Aho or O'Reilly etc. There is always talent to be found in the draft.
SJinNewJersey
Every single one of us, the devil inside
Glad you feel this way. I will be rooting for the Isles as they will have several former Devils who had to endure many losing season. Good luck.
You literally dodged the question and didn't answer it. Would you say they have nothing to show for it? But I will answer your question anyway. Yes, I will still be happy that our GM gave us the Islanders the best chance he could to win a cup while giving up a reasonable value of assets. Which is the point of a trade, to improve your chances at a cup. And I will still feel thay way even if it doesn't result in a cup.
Acting like there is only winning a Cup or nothing as the possible results of a trade is a false binary IMO and pretty silly to try to claim, but I ask my question to you as I am curious if you apply that same logic the other direction.
SJinNewJersey
Every single one of us, the devil inside
My point posting in this thread was about the Devils getting "Fleeced", which I did not agree with. Hence my question about the ultimate outcome for the Islanders. The Islanders window for this trade (unless they resign Palms) is just this year as opposed to the Devils window, being different because they will have the picks then players moving forward.
Bottom line is, you can use whatever requirements you want to evaluate a trade, I will use my own.
You continue to dodge answering the question, even after I answered yours. I wonder why it might be that you refuse to answer a simple question like that...
Top Corner
Registered User
One thing we can all agree on is that Palmieri & Zajac brought back more assets to NJ than Tavares did for the Isles
He answered it in his own way. You don’t like the answer but this isn’t court and you can’t force him to answer a series of yes or no questions. You also can’t force him to accept your definitions and parameters.
Dodging the question and talking around it isn't answering it. Though it's generally considered good form that if you demand someone else answer a question and they oblige you that you would show them the same courtesy, I am not trying to force him to do anything. Was just wondering aloud why he won't answer a pretty straight forward question.
But no worries, I'll go with his logic and remember that the Devils got fleeced and gave up Zajac and Palmieri for nothing if these assets don't win them a cup. I had thought it was a good trade for both teams since they both improved their odds somewhat of winning a cup, but now I've learned that both teams will have nothing to show for it unless they win a cup because of it.
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Withiut knowing what was offered and who was even interested it’s hard to say “who got fleeced”. Among other things, Palmieri had a partial NTC and Zajac had a full one. It’s easy to presume it was an open field of offers but who knows. I will say I doubt Zajac would have waived for any other team so I don’t think valuing him in a vacuum is fair. Palmieri also hasn’t been meshing with Hughes and really struggled all season. I think the NYI got to solid vets that will help in the playoffs. NJ got a couple of picks for guys they can make offers to as UFAs if they want. That’s a pretty good trade for both teams in my view. I think once fannies are back in the seats deadline deals will look more like pst years. This season between the flat cap and limited playoff revenue I don’t think most teams are really going for it.
Well, before SJ taught me otherwise, that would've been my analysis too -- both teams got what they were looking for and paid fair prices for it, AKA a win-win trade. But now thanks to him, I have now learned who got fleeced, which would be either team that doesn't win the cup as a result of this trade. May turn out to be a lose-lose trade, apparently.
Meh. It’s an Internet forum where nobody is going to articulate all of their thoughts. It’s typical to misread or misinterpret posts and messages that are in artfully worded or well worded but too brief. I wouldn’t get worked up. What we are discussing makes sense and you should be pleased that you have made a good point. Once people are arguing over the shape of the table it’s rare to get any resolution.
SJinNewJersey
Every single one of us, the devil inside
I also said I happen to think its a good trade for both teams with where they are at. But you decided to completely ignore that and many of my statement and fixate on specific items to suit your narrative. I've ignored you like you have done to some my statements.
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One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
I've got no problem with that mentality. It's accurate. However, I just believe they could have gotten a better package and to me, a 2nd and a good prospect is better than a 1st in a weak draft where everything after 5 is a crap shoot and a couple of career minor leaguers with no future and a 3rd/4th which has a very low percentage chance of making the NHL.
I'm not just crapping on the Devils for the sake of doing it, I'm just saying I think if they would have held out longer for a better deal, I think they might have been able to get it, considering the market and supply and demand. If you think about it, the Devils held probably the #2 biggest piece on the market and TB just gave up 3 of their first 4 picks in this draft (that shows us how weak this draft is) to get Savard as a rental. Sure, they're going all in, but 3 of your first 4 picks in a draft when your prospect pool is just about empty? That's a lot to give.
With all of that said, Fitzgerald is a relatively inexperienced GM and the Hall situation probably threw a giant wrench in his plans, so I'll give him a little benefit of the doubt there. In any other year, a 1st would be really good for someone like Palmieri. This draft just isn't that good though. Maybe years down the road, I'll be wrong, but the experts are saying this is one of the weaker drafts in recent years.
The Islanders HAVE TO get back to the CF or whatever the equivalent of it will be this year. If they don't, Lou chose Palmieri and Zajac over Hall, when for years, the Islanders have needed top flight talents to compliment their centers and they just haven't been able to acquire them. A deal was in place for Hall and Lou pulled the plug to go this route. So we'll see what happens.
I personally wouldn't call Mercer a "great" prospect. I think he's a good solid prospect, but that's just my opinion.
Just to be clear, I'm a Ranger fan. I've got no dog in this fight.
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
Pure Slaughter Value
Registered User
Seems like I could have understood your point more clearly if you would answer the question I asked, but sure, the misunderstanding is all my fault.
Anyway, I don't care anymore and have already agreed with you, so let's move on.
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