OT: Non-Hockey Sports Thread IX - Let's Go Bowling! (Two-Minute Tommy Edition)

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TaLoN

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It's so depressing being a Minnesota sports fan.

We keep hitching wagons to the wrong horses. Every time we get a player that is demanding enough to create a winning atmosphere, we chase them out of town as locker room cancers. Not realizing that they have a legit point.

Percy Harvin ripped our coaches... for legit reasons, was run out of town, won a Superbowl in Seattle the next year (with a borderline Superbowl MVP level performance in that game too).
Jimmy Butler ripped his teammates for not putting in the work needed, was run out of town... has teammates that listen to him and is making a run.
Stephan Diggs ripped the offense and QB for not being creative enough and for not being willing to take the chances needed on throws to make plays, got run out of town and is tearing it up with a much more creative offense and a better QB in Buffalo.

None of these guys were locker room cancers, they were players who were passionate and demanding of their team and teammates. That should be applauded IMO.
 

fentonsbrainchild

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We keep hitching wagons to the wrong horses. Every time we get a player that is demanding enough to create a winning atmosphere, we chase them out of town as locker room cancers. Not realizing that they have a legit point.

Percy Harvin ripped our coaches... for legit reasons, was run out of town, won a Superbowl in Seattle the next year (with a borderline Superbowl MVP level performance in that game too).
Jimmy Butler ripped his teammates for not putting in the work needed, was run out of town... has teammates that listen to him and is making a run.
Stephan Diggs ripped the offense and QB for not being creative enough and for not being willing to take the chances needed on throws to make plays, got run out of town and is tearing it up with a much more creative offense and a better QB in Buffalo.

None of these guys were locker room cancers, they were players who were passionate and demanding of their team and teammates. That should be applauded IMO.
I can agree with most of this but Percy Harvin was not going to work here at all. There’s a reason he didn’t last in the NFL and using it as a point of why we drive “stars” away is plain ridiculous.

To a larger point we aren’t going to win anything in basketball until Taylor sells the team. We are not a super bowl roster anymore and we certainly don’t have a QB who can elevate a roster. As a small market team the Twins are running out of chances before players go elsewhere. And as far as the Wild go I have no explanation, it looks like another year where our floor is 7OA and our ceiling is a second round exit where we got lucky in the first round.
 
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TaLoN

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I can agree with most of this but Percy Harvin was not going to work here at all. There’s a reason he didn’t last in the NFL and using it as a point of why we drive “stars” away is plain ridiculous.

To a larger point we aren’t going to win anything in basketball until Taylor sells the team. We are not a super bowl roster anymore and we certainly don’t have a QB who can elevate a roster. As a small market team the Twins are running out of chances before players go elsewhere. And as far as the Wild go I have no explanation, it looks like another year where our floor is 7OA and our ceiling is a second round exit where we got lucky in the first round.
For the record, it was injuries that took Harvin out of the game.
 

57special

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Yeah, that's the thing, these tests are not 100%, and some are far worse. You can have a false positive, but even worse, a false negative.
 

57special

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Jefferson looks to be a great replacement for Diggs. We don't have the best QB, but our receivers are damn good.
 

TaLoN

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Jefferson looks to be a great replacement for Diggs. We don't have the best QB, but our receivers are damn good.
Would've been a better addition to than replacement for. We had no cap reason to replace Diggs. We misallocated our cap in the first place by spending money on the wrong players. We were searching for years for a 3rd WR, we finally get one and we got rid of our best one in the process, so we're back to needing a quality 3rd WR.
 

57special

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ehh...he didn't want to be here. I'm good with having two really good ones, and a decent tight end, and a back who can catch.

We do need a new QB, but that is a job for another day.
 

TaLoN

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ehh...he didn't want to be here. I'm good with having two really good ones, and a decent tight end, and a back who can catch.

We do need a new QB, but that is a job for another day.
He didn't want to be here only because we have severe issues on offense and are unwilling to address them. He voiced his problem with those issues, so the team labeled him a cancer and chased him out of town. He wants to win, we need players like that. We should be listening to them not chasing them away.
 

57special

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Diggs was half right, but you can't have your players calling out guys in the press and running teams. Cousins is most certainly not worth his paycheck, and Zim/Spielman doubling down on him is probably gonna cost them their jobs.
 

TaLoN

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Diggs was half right, but you can't have your players calling out guys in the press and running teams. Cousins is most certainly not worth his paycheck, and Zim/Spielman doubling down on him is probably gonna cost them their jobs.
Diggs didn't call anyone out in the press. He called them out in the locker room, the team leaked it to the press. In the press he was only the consummate professional backing up his QB in tweets and interviews etc.
 
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Wild11MN

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Tweeting "It's time for a new beginning" two hours after the Vikes signed Cousins to a two-year deal is backing up his QB? Don't tell me that was a coincidence on the timing.

He was "cryptic tweeting" for years on things which were obviously related to the Vikings, and likely Kirk. It all started the first year he was here.
 

TaLoN

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Tweeting "It's time for a new beginning" two hours after the Vikes signed Cousins to a two-year deal is backing up his QB? Don't tell me that was a coincidence on the timing.

He was "cryptic tweeting" for years on things which were obviously related to the Vikings, and likely Kirk. It all started the first year he was here.
Wasn't the trade already done at that time?
 

TaLoN

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Nope, the tweet literally was the cause for the trade talks, and he got traded that day.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/23/tampa-bay-buccaneers-scout-tom-brady-diggs-hopkins-trades
Meh... you put more weight into "cryptic" tweets than I. I'm still agreeing with him that Cousins is the wrong QB to run with after what we've seen. Re-signing him was a mistake. If Diggs tells the team what he thinks and they do it anyway, can you blame him for wanting to play elsewhere where he's going to have a better QB?

I'm not saying let Diggs run the show, but to ignore players like Diggs who see obvious flaws in the offense and QB is also a mistake. He's only a cancer if you are perpetuating those flaws. I call that passion from a player who demands excellent of himself, his teammates and his organization.
 

Wild11MN

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Meh... you put more weight into "cryptic" tweets than I. I'm still agreeing with him that Cousins is the wrong QB to run with after what we've seen. Re-signing him was a mistake. If Diggs tells the team what he thinks and they do it anyway, can you blame him for wanting to play elsewhere where he's going to have a better QB?

I'm not saying let Diggs run the show, but to ignore players like Diggs who see obvious flaws in the offense and QB is also a mistake. He's only a cancer if you are perpetuating those flaws. I call that passion from a player who demands excellent of himself, his teammates and his organization.
He was a big distraction. Cryptic tweets, sideline tantrums, skipping practice, etc.

Of course Cousins isn't the right guy to win with, so I'm not disagreeing with him either. But Diggs was a huge distraction to the team, and he needed to go.
 

TaLoN

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He was a big distraction. Cryptic tweets, sideline tantrums, skipping practice, etc.

Of course Cousins isn't the right guy to win with, so I'm not disagreeing with him either. But Diggs was a huge distraction to the team, and he needed to go.
You and I aren't going to agree on this.
You're half right, Talon.
Opinions aren't right or wrong... they aren't "facts". We'll never know the facts of us being better off with him staying or leaving... but my opinion thinks we'd have been much better off had we listened to his critiques and tried to improve the team.

We'll never know. I do know the team is absolutely terrible now because Spielman... though he built a quality team, completely mismanaged how to sustain it and improve it.
 
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