Nicklas Backstrom HHOF Chances?

[Hobnobs]

There are parallels to Alex Delvecchio's career. Now hang on, let me finish. In other words, he was a centre on a team for a long time with a much more famous and better winger. Not to mention both had a lot of years where they finished among the top scorers. You don't think of Delvecchio when you think of this and you don't with Backstrom either. Now, I think Delvecchio was better, and he is in the HHOF, but to compare Backstrom to more of a modern player does he have a chance?

Just looking at the numbers, he has a very good chance. The only problem is does he fall into the category where he is forgotten? Let's face it, the guy is underrated. But if we are looking at boxes to check off, he's in decent shape.

Stanley Cup? Check
Big contributor to that Cup? Check.
Good in the playoffs? Pretty good.
Top 10 points finishes? 4, 4, 6, 8, 9
Led the league in anything? Assists in 2015
Statistical thresholds? Will easily crack over 1,000 points.
PPG status? 0.97 at the moment.


The only thing that might hold him back is whether or not they think he just didn't have the notoriety or that he didn't get the Hart votes. To be fair Ovechkin was the one getting those votes, not him, so that factors in a bit. And someone like Luc Robitaille, who we all agree belongs, never got a single Hart vote in his career.

I guess the last thing is do you hear the words "Hall of Famer" or "great" when you say his name. You don't, but that is probably because of the underrated aspect.

We could compare him to another Red Wings center whos in the hall, Norm Ullman. I think Bäckström is in. I don't really see any reason for him to be out.

 

[Big Phil]

While I think Bäckström is not exactly a slamdunk first ballot pick for the HHoF, I would not be surprised to see him in there. If I go buy your list there....

I have Overchkin, Malkin, Crosby, Kane, Karlsson,Stamkos and Toews as guaranteed to be in the hall.

Price, Quick, Rask, Rinne - when it comes to goalies, I have no idea.. Maybe 1 at best?
Giroux, Marchand, Doughty - Maybe, Maybe not..
Letang, Benn, Subban, Carlsson - Not even close.

Not to mention goalies for the most part are far from slam dunks. In the 1990s you knew Roy, Hasek, Belfour and Brodeur were getting in with a whole slew behind them who were as good as the ones you mentioned above, perhaps minus Price. So I am guessing we are not going to have a swath of goalies in there which will only help Backstrom.

 

[Big Phil]

We could compare him to another Red Wings center whos in the hall, Norm Ullman. I think Bäckström is in. I don't really see any reason for him to be out.

Part of it is that he never really has that season that stands out. It isn't a deal breaker, Ron Francis never really did either. Backstrom doesn't pop up in the best centres of his era discussion though either, and personally I don't know why. Maybe because he has almost been TOO quiet with his production. When you look at his all-star finishes at centre it does leave a lot to be desired: 3rd, 4th, 6th, 8th. That doesn't scream HHOFer by any means. So if anything holds him back it might be that he flew under the radar too much.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Part of it is that he never really has that season that stands out. It isn't a deal breaker, Ron Francis never really did either. Backstrom doesn't pop up in the best centres of his era discussion though either, and personally I don't know why. Maybe because he has almost been TOO quiet with his production. When you look at his all-star finishes at centre it does leave a lot to be desired: 3rd, 4th, 6th, 8th. That doesn't scream HHOFer by any means. So if anything holds him back it might be that he flew under the radar too much.

Maybe not, but in points he has 4th, 4th, 6th, 8th, 9th and quite possibly another top 10 finish this year. He's got extremely strong numbers in assists:

2008-09 NHL 66 (3rd)

2009-10 NHL 68 (3rd)

2012-13 NHL 40 (3rd)

2013-14 NHL 61 (3rd)

2014-15 NHL 60 (1st)

2015-16 NHL 50 (7th)

2016-17 NHL 63 (2nd)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Big Phil]

Maybe not, but in points he has 4th, 4th, 6th, 8th, 9th and quite possibly another top 10 finish this year. He's got extremely strong numbers in assists:

2008-09 NHL 66 (3rd)

2009-10 NHL 68 (3rd)

2012-13 NHL 40 (3rd)

2013-14 NHL 61 (3rd)

2014-15 NHL 60 (1st)

2015-16 NHL 50 (7th)

2016-17 NHL 63 (2nd)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He does. And that's the thing, for whatever reason Backstrom is an extreme case where the perception of him doesn't match his actual accomplishments. I remember a few years back there was a prospect up for the NHL draft and the scouts said that he was a guy you never noticed, but at the end of the game he has 1 goal and 2 assists. I have never figured out whether or not that is a good thing to be known for or not, but Backstrom definitely is that guy.

 

[Sentinel]

Kinda like Letang getting in. I think Letang and Backstrom are good comparisons although Letang has two years where you could argue he was the best defenseman in the league and Backstrom has 0 at his position.

But look at the competition. Since Lidstrom retired, there were no defensemen equal in status to Crosby and Malkin.

 

[Voight]

I think he likely makes it simply from being on the Caps championship squad. You figure two players at minimum are going in given how good that team was for so long.

Kinda like Letang getting in. I think Letang and Backstrom are good comparisons although Letang has two years where you could argue he was the best defenseman in the league and Backstrom has 0 at his position.

I disagree. Backstrom is a much better player.

There has been 0 years Letang was ever considered the best d-man in the league. Likewise the same with Backstrom, but hes also had a murderers row of competition - Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, McDavid and then guys like H Sedin, Tavares for a few years. There has been less competition at D. In Letangs prime it was really only Doughty, Weber and Karlsson.

While I think Bäckström is not exactly a slamdunk first ballot pick for the HHoF, I would not be surprised to see him in there. If I go buy your list there....

I have Overchkin, Malkin, Crosby, Kane, Karlsson,Stamkos and Toews as guaranteed to be in the hall.

Price, Quick, Rask, Rinne - when it comes to goalies, I have no idea.. Maybe 1 at best?
Giroux, Marchand, Doughty - Maybe, Maybe not..
Letang, Benn, Subban, Carlsson - Not even close.

Doughty is a 100% lock. Far from a maybe. At worst hes the 2nd best defenseman of his era, but its more of a 1A and 1B with him and Karlsson.

I slightly disagree with that. Other than the Cup, his career has been similar to Giroux--although, yes, a little more consistent. Giroux has had more extreme high-lows. But look at these guys...

Claude Giroux (2007-08 to present):
GP: 889
G: 257
A: 558
P: 815
PPG: 0.92
Seasons in Top-10 scoring: 4--(3rd, 3rd, 10th, 2nd)
All-Star Games: 6
Playoffs PPG: 0.89

Nicklas Backstrom (2007-08 to present):
GP: 956
G: 243
A: 684
P: 927
PPG: 0.97
Seasons in Top-10 scoring: 5--(9th, 4th, 8th, 6th, 4th)
All-Star Games: 1
Playoffs PPG: 0.83

... they are fairly similar. Both are better set-up men than goal scorers. Neither has won a major, individual award--although Giroux did come in 3rd in Hart voting one year--a claim Backstrom cannot make. The only difference to me is the ring on Backstrom's finger.

In Backstroms case he plays with a generational player, so his Hart chances are 0 unless Ovechkin were to miss significant time + Backstrom having a big year. Case in point - Malkin probably never wins a Hart if Sid doesnt miss most of the 2012 season.

 

[Hobnobs]

Part of it is that he never really has that season that stands out. It isn't a deal breaker, Ron Francis never really did either. Backstrom doesn't pop up in the best centres of his era discussion though either, and personally I don't know why. Maybe because he has almost been TOO quiet with his production. When you look at his all-star finishes at centre it does leave a lot to be desired: 3rd, 4th, 6th, 8th. That doesn't scream HHOFer by any means. So if anything holds him back it might be that he flew under the radar too much.

Yea he definitely flies under the radar but I still think his resume is good enough to remember. I see him him getting in as an Oates kind of player. One of the best passers in the league over his career if not the best same as Oates and Francis and with similar fly under the radar voting records.

 

[Gurglesons]

I disagree. Backstrom is a much better player.

There has been 0 years Letang was ever considered the best d-man in the league. Likewise the same with Backstrom, but hes also had a murderers row of competition - Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, McDavid and then guys like H Sedin, Tavares for a few years. There has been less competition at D. In Letangs prime it was really only Doughty, Weber and Karlsson.



Doughty is a 100% lock. Far from a maybe. At worst hes the 2nd best defenseman of his era, but its more of a 1A and 1B with him and Karlsson.



In Backstroms case he plays with a generational player, so his Hart chances are 0 unless Ovechkin were to miss significant time + Backstrom having a big year. Case in point - Malkin probably never wins a Hart if Sid doesnt miss most of the 2012 season.

If healthy, Letang would have easily won the Norris in 2013.

There is also an argument to be made in 2016.

 

[Voight]

If healthy, Letang would have easily won the Norris in 2013.

There is also an argument to be made in 2016.

No, it should've been Suter and still would be even if Letang was healthy. Most will likely agree Suter was the best defenseman that year.

In 2016 he was good, but it was a clear two-way race between Karlsson & Doughty. Nothing he could have done to surpass either of them. Much like Burns, he put up big offensive numbers but both finished distantly behind the two.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, it should've been Suter and still would be even if Letang was healthy. Most will likely agree Suter was the best defenseman that year.

In 2016 he was good, but it was a clear two-way race between Karlsson & Doughty. Nothing he could have done to surpass either of them. Much like Burns, he put up big offensive numbers but both finished distantly behind the two.

Nah.

Regardless, Karlsson, Doughty, and Chara were all part of Letang’s era. Letang was better positionally than Bäckström.

Letang has consistently been a top ten D until probably this year since 2010. Bäckström doesn’t have that argument.

 

[Hobnobs]

Nah.

Regardless, Karlsson, Doughty, and Chara were all part of Letang’s era. Letang was better positionally than Bäckström.

Letang has consistently been a top ten D until probably this year since 2010. Bäckström doesn’t have that argument.

So now we're moving the goal posts to top-10 and Bäckström is definitely a top-10 center of his era.

 

[Gurglesons]

So now we're moving the goal posts to top-10 and Bäckström is definitely a top-10 center of his era.

Well, I mean the goal posts were already established. Letang was viewed as one of the best defensemen and arguably the best defenseman in 2013 and 2016. That is a fact. In both seasons I'm considering his contributions in the playoffs. Letang put up a Smythe worthy run in 2016 and was a PPG in 2013.

When was Backstrom ever viewed anywhere near that in his career?

Also, why are people picking up on one little sentence from my quote saying Backstrom will be in the HHOF?

Here is what my stance was in the beginning of this thread "I mean, in my personal HOF Letang and Backstrom are nowhere near it, but in reality Hossa was just a first ballot with no individual awards and Doug Wilson / Kevin Lowe got in as well.

Is the argument what we feel is HHOF worthy, or is it what will actually get into the HHOF. Because Hossa is pretty clearly in the realm of Backstrom outside of the additional cups, eh?"

 

[kaiser matias]

He's definitely a quite player who's got deceptively good numbers. I feel some would call him a weaker choice, but I think he would be firmly average, and would not hesitate to have him elected.

 

[ted2019]

Gillies didn't play with Trottier and Bossy a huge amount during the dynasty years.

He rarely played with them in any of the 4 playoffs.

In the regular season, he started off playing with them a lot, but it decreased over the years until he wasnt playing with them at all.

Tonelli, Bourne, Kallur, Gilbert all played significant amounts on the top line too. And several others played some with them.

Islanders most productive forward lines in team history (eyesonisles.com)
The Trio Grande - Wikipedia

Gillies-Trottier-Bossy

Twelve Stanley Cup rings between the three of them (with the New York Islanders). Each was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame. The Trio Grande of Clark Gillies (LW), Bryan Trottier (C), and Mike Bossy (RW) defined the New York Islanders dynasty.
The trio put up a combined 3,248 points and were awarded an insane ten pieces of hardware: three Lady Byng Trophies, two Calder Trophies, two Conn Smythe Trophies, a Hart Trophy, an Art Ross Trophy, and a King Clancy Trophy.
They weren’t just the best line in Islanders history, but arguably the best line of their generation

Legends of Hockey - Induction Showcase - Clark Gillies (hhof.com)
Clark Gillies' leadership qualities and hockey ability was a large reason why his teams won championships at both the amateur and professional level. His amateur career was highlighted by a Memorial Cup championship prior to a National Hockey League career that spanned 14 seasons. At 6'3" and 215 lbs., Gillies was one of the league's premiere power forwards during the second half of the 1970's and early 1980's. The left winger teamed up with fellow Hockey Hall of Famers Mike Bossy and Bryan Trottier to form one of the decade's most lethal forward lines, nicknamed the "Trio Grande".

 

[Hobnobs]

Well, I mean the goal posts were already established. Letang was viewed as one of the best defensemen and arguably the best defenseman in 2013 and 2016. That is a fact.

When was Backstrom ever viewed anywhere near that in his career?

Also, why are people picking up on one little sentence from my quote saying Backstrom will be in the HHOF?

2010 and 2017 comes to mind. But over the span of their careers Bäckström is simply better. Consistent, healthy, one of the best passers in the league and great defensively.

I didnt pick up on it until you moved the goal posts and added that Bäckström isnt a top-10 center in the league.

 

[Gurglesons]

2010 and 2017 comes to mind. But over the span of their careers Bäckström is simply better. Consistent, healthy, one of the best passers in the league and great defensively.

I didnt pick up on it until you moved the goal posts and added that Bäckström isnt a top-10 center in the league.

I would absolutely love to hear the argument of how Backstrom was a top three center in 2010.

Letang produced at the same rate as the premier offensive defensemen in his career and was also a two way D on top of it. His metrics point to him being consistently one of the best two way D in the league and he did it on a team that didn't miss the playoffs and was a huge part of two cup wins.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

No awards no first team positions no thanks

 

[The Macho King]

Letang wasn't a travesty in his own zone like some of his contemporaries (Burns and Karlsson most notably, but also Subban), but I don't know if I would call him a "two way D."

He may also be one of the dumbest players I've ever seen. Put a brain in that toolbox and hachi machi you have a stud and a guy with some Norris trophies.

 

[Gurglesons]

Letang wasn't a travesty in his own zone like some of his contemporaries (Burns and Karlsson most notably, but also Subban), but I don't know if I would call him a "two way D."

He may also be one of the dumbest players I've ever seen. Put a brain in that toolbox and hachi machi you have a stud and a guy with some Norris trophies.

What exactly would you call a player that plays all situations and over 22 minutes a night?

Anyways, Letang doesn't deserve to be in the HHOF, but as I said.. him and Backstrom kind of have that "third most important player" on two teams that defined the era so they most likely make it.

 

[Hobnobs]

What exactly would you call a player that plays all situations and over 22 minutes a night?

Anyways, Letang doesn't deserve to be in the HHOF, but as I said.. him and Backstrom kind of have that "third most important player" on two teams that defined the era so they most likely make it.

I call that player Sergei Gonchar.

 

[Gurglesons]

I call that player Sergei Gonchar.

You really think prime Letang is similar to Gonchar? Eh.

Letang has been a dominant ES player throughout his career and I’d argue the worst aspect of his game is the PP.

 

[Hobnobs]

You really think prime Letang is similar to Gonchar? Eh.

Letang has been a dominant ES player throughout his career and I’d argue the worst aspect of his game is the PP.

Sergei Gonchar had more TOI at PK than Letang did in Pittsburgh. The point is, stop lying that Letang is some sort of two-way wizard who "plays all situations". He's an offensive defenseman whos not a defensive black hole unless he has to think.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sergei Gonchar had more TOI at PK than Letang did in Pittsburgh. The point is, stop lying that Letang is some sort of two-way wizard who "plays all situations". He's an offensive defenseman whos not a defensive black hole unless he has to think.

I mean Letang replaced Gonchar after 2010, so I’m not really sure what you’re alluding to comparing their time. He has averaged 2+ minutes on the PK since 2009-10.

NHL Stats

I mean, I’m not sure how you hide him with this type of usage. If you just want to use + / - he has been fantastic for what he brings offensively.

Kris Letang - Summary - Natural Stat Trick

He also has a pretty remarkably steady xGF% even going into this year.

I question if you watched much of Gonchar in his career if you think Letang is the lesser 2 way guy tbh.

 

[Staniowski]

Islanders most productive forward lines in team history (eyesonisles.com)
The Trio Grande - Wikipedia

Gillies-Trottier-Bossy

Twelve Stanley Cup rings between the three of them (with the New York Islanders). Each was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame. The Trio Grande of Clark Gillies (LW), Bryan Trottier (C), and Mike Bossy (RW) defined the New York Islanders dynasty.
The trio put up a combined 3,248 points and were awarded an insane ten pieces of hardware: three Lady Byng Trophies, two Calder Trophies, two Conn Smythe Trophies, a Hart Trophy, an Art Ross Trophy, and a King Clancy Trophy.
They weren’t just the best line in Islanders history, but arguably the best line of their generation

Legends of Hockey - Induction Showcase - Clark Gillies (hhof.com)
Clark Gillies' leadership qualities and hockey ability was a large reason why his teams won championships at both the amateur and professional level. His amateur career was highlighted by a Memorial Cup championship prior to a National Hockey League career that spanned 14 seasons. At 6'3" and 215 lbs., Gillies was one of the league's premiere power forwards during the second half of the 1970's and early 1980's. The left winger teamed up with fellow Hockey Hall of Famers Mike Bossy and Bryan Trottier to form one of the decade's most lethal forward lines, nicknamed the "Trio Grande".

The articles you referenced are further evidence of how widespread is the lack of knowledge of the Islanders top scoring line of the late '70s and early '80s.

Trottier, Bossy and Gillies were teammates for 9 seasons - '77-'78 to '85-'86. So that's the time period we're talking about.

First, these 3 were rarely linemates in the playoffs of the dynasty years.

In the regular season (of the 9 seasons), I would estimate they were linemates for roughly 35% of that time.

(They did play some on the PP outside of the times they were a line at ES).

Tonelli was probably on the top line for over 30% of the time during these 9 seasons, with Bourne, Gilbert and Kallur significant amounts, and several others (including Makela, Kromm, and others) with lesser amounts.

Of course, Trottier and Bossy were not always linemates either....including large parts of '84-'85, times of injury, and relatively short periods where Arbour separated them.

Gillies was on the top line more than 50% of the time probably only during the first 3 seasons of Bossy's career - i.e. '77-'78, '78-'79, and '79-'80.

Gillies rarely played on the top line after '81-'82.

I think there are a few reasons that people mistakenly believe that Gillies was on the top line more than he actually was: 1) Gillies was the first LW that Bossy played with, 2) the line with Gillies actually had a nickname, and 3) they were a line in both the high-profile '79 Challenge Cup and the '81 Canada Cup.

For the people who remember that time period, though, the Bossy/Trottier line was famous for all the different LWs they had. It was like a revolving door. Trottier and Bossy were a duo.