NHL is damaging its reputation with useless ASG and missing Olympics

[ScaredStreit]

Imagine you're a casual sports fan (and potential hockey/NHL fan) and you tune into the all-star game and see the best players in the world coasting, not caring, doing silly drills, etc. You'd think the league was a joke and tune out. Now imagine you flip through the channels and see the best players in the world competing in the Olympics for the Gold and their countries.

You tell me which one is better for the growth of the game.

 

[Voight]

bring the best there to inspire kids who want to be the next mcDavid. Great.

Sorry kid, no ice. have you thought of Esports ?

And unlike basketball, when precisely, even with the KHL team, do you see the country putting up a competitive team against canada/russia/us/sweden/finland ? 50 years ?

the women would be worse, they could literally lose by a hundred.

and people keep talking about tapping into the market, the league is still largely based on the gate. is there a market to sell merch there ? yes. is there a market to sell broadcasts, yes. after that, it dries up pretty quick.

And if the appeal is that things like the NBA is viewed as a symbol of the West, the NHL isnt likely going to close that gap. This people = market idea needs to die a fiery death, if it were true the mexico city sombreros would be in the western conference.

Merchandise / Broadcast money is all they need. Thats what makes the league money.

Seeing the Germans last year was amazing. They won the silver and were celebrating that like they had won the gold. It was probably the biggest moment in German hockey history and that doesn't happen with NHLers in the games. That's the beauty of amateur competition - truly everyone has a chance to win.

1980 doesn't happen either with NHLers there.

The Olympics matter to a very, very small amount of NHLers at the end of the day.

I disagree. Plenty of players spoke out when Bettman said 2018 wasn't going to happen. Guys like Toews, Vlasic and McDavid are on record saying they want to play in the Olympics.

It may have changed by now, but a lot of European players have considered Olympic Gold just as important as winning the cup. I don't necessarily disagree with that because they only happen every 4 years (so less chances to win) and its truly best on best.

Do you think his team could have stopped him?

Its entirely possible. He was under contract.

 

[EurlichBachman]

Imagine you're a casual sports fan (and potential hockey/NHL fan) and you tune into the all-star game and see the best players in the world coasting, not caring, doing silly drills, etc. You'd think the league was a joke and tune out. Now imagine you flip through the channels and see the best players in the world competing in the Olympics for the Gold and their countries.

You tell me which one is better for the growth of the game.

No one has ever turned on an All Star Game and expected great high quality competition. This is true among all sports. This is not an either-or situation. The Olympics are once every 4 years.

The All Star Game is mostly for kids to enjoy. This is not a hard concept to grasp, I don't know why HF is having such an issue with this.

 

[ViD]

Not every fan.

I preferred the Olympics when there was a Canadian National Team and we sent amateurs to compete. The deck was heavily stacked against Canada as the big European hockey nations were sending their best to compete versus Canada's amateurs (this, of course, being before the best Europeans were all in the NHL.)

It was a much more interesting then and closer to the spirit of the Olympics, and it was great to see guys you watched play in the Olympics then join their NHL teams after the Games.

Shutting down the NHL season to have guys go play in the Olympics was a total drag. I hated having the league stop in mid-season like that.

I'm all four a Canada Cup/World Cup type tournament, but I'd rather not see the NHL involved in the Olympics again.

That makes no sense now though, the team Canada of 2018 wasn’t too great.

Besides, winning without the best players participate bitters the after taste

 

[LaGu]

I don't know what people expect. The NHL gets nothing out of pausing their season for 3-4 weeks so the players can go play in China while virtually nobody in the US watches the games anyways.

The IOC/IIHF probably could entice the NHL to participate, but they don't want to. They won't let the NHL use the footage and they won't pay the insurance cost for when these players with $100,000,000 contracts get injured.

This isn't some charity case either, the Olympics are one of the most corrupt events out there.

The IIHF offered to pay the insurance last time around.

 

[sandysan]

Merchandise / Broadcast money is all they need. Thats what makes the league money.



I disagree. Plenty of players spoke out when Bettman said 2018 wasn't going to happen. Guys like Toews, Vlasic and McDavid are on record saying they want to play in the Olympics.

It may have changed by now, but a lot of European players have considered Olympic Gold just as important as winning the cup. I don't necessarily disagree with that because they only happen every 4 years (so less chances to win) and its truly best on best.



Its entirely possible. He was under contract.

what makes the league money is the gate. its still a gate driven league which is why the playoffs are so lucrative. Does broacast and merchandise ( and in China lets not pretend that all of that gear is liscenced) bring in money ? Sure. but its not the majority of the teams revenue.

 

[sandysan]

The IIHF offered to pay the insurance last time around.

by taking money away from national federations.

the nhl was right to refuse blood money

 

[sandysan]

Imagine you're a casual sports fan (and potential hockey/NHL fan) and you tune into the all-star game and see the best players in the world coasting, not caring, doing silly drills, etc. You'd think the league was a joke and tune out. Now imagine you flip through the channels and see the best players in the world competing in the Olympics for the Gold and their countries.

You tell me which one is better for the growth of the game.

if you see the best players competing, why does it have to be in the olympics ? if the talent is the draw, whether it is under the rings or not seems moot.

no one is pining for the last olympics.

 

[LaGu]

by taking money away from national federations.

the nhl was right to refuse blood money

You really need to explain this in more detail, because at a glance it looks like the most far-fetched attempt at explaining why NHL moved the goal posts for the participation.

The IIHF has funds and are allowed to use them. I didn't see any national federations complaining at this plan.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Merchandise / Broadcast money is all they need. Thats what makes the league money.



I disagree. Plenty of players spoke out when Bettman said 2018 wasn't going to happen. Guys like Toews, Vlasic and McDavid are on record saying they want to play in the Olympics.

It may have changed by now, but a lot of European players have considered Olympic Gold just as important as winning the cup. I don't necessarily disagree with that because they only happen every 4 years (so less chances to win) and its truly best on best.



Its entirely possible. He was under contract.

You're proving my point for me here. Yes, clearly the best players in the world are going to want to go play in the Olympics because they actually have a shot at playing on those teams. The vast majority of NHLers will never play in the Olympics.

 

[sandysan]

You really need to explain this in more detail, because at a glance it looks like the most far-fetched attempt at explaining why NHL moved the goal posts for the participation.

The IIHF has funds and are allowed to use them. I didn't see any national federations complaining at this plan.

the IIHF has funds that it distributes to national federations ( hovkey canada, usa hockey, hockey new zeland). this money is used for development ( organising tournaments etc). When the IOC said they would NOT pay for the insurance, the IIHF said they would. Where does this 20 million or so come from ? under the cushions of rene fassel's couch ? they have 20 million sitting around ?

no it comes from these development programs.

so in order to genuflect to the IOC, the IIHF was willing to take money earmarked for grass roots development, and give it to an insurance company so that the IOC could get rich off the NHL players.

The NHL also wanted "top sponsor" status that would not have cost the ioc anything, but that wasn't in the cards either.

 

[PsYcNeT]

Imagine you're a casual sports fan (and potential hockey/NHL fan) and you tune into the all-star game and see the best players in the world coasting, not caring, doing silly drills, etc. You'd think the league was a joke and tune out. Now imagine you flip through the channels and see the best players in the world competing in the Olympics for the Gold and their countries.

You tell me which one is better for the growth of the game.

There is a pretty big assumption here that people still have cable and will just "tune in".

 

[LaGu]

the IIHF has funds that it distributes to national federations ( hovkey canada, usa hockey, hockey new zeland). this money is used for development ( organising tournaments etc). When the IOC said they would NOT pay for the insurance, the IIHF said they would. Where does this 20 million or so come from ? under the cushions of rene fassel's couch ? they have 20 million sitting around ?

no it comes from these development programs.

so in order to genuflect to the IOC, the IIHF was willing to take money earmarked for grass roots development, and give it to an insurance company so that the IOC could get rich off the NHL players.

The NHL also wanted "top sponsor" status that would not have cost the ioc anything, but that wasn't in the cards either.

The federations and the IIHF do this all the time for other tournaments, like for world championships every year. The IIHF contributes like $25'000 for each NHL player coming over to play in the IIHF WHC, that covers part of the insurance bill, and the rest is paid directly by the federations (wich is alot).

The only ones using this excuse was the NHL themselves, no federation was against it.

NHL did not want to participate and moved the goal posts when the IIHF gave a solution acceptable for every other actor involved. I am not saying it is right or wrong here, but to come out and call the IIHF's proposal "blood money" is a bit much.

 

[FerrisRox]

Its entirely possible. He was under contract.

The would have no say whatsoever in whether he participated or not. NBA players, much like the NHL players when they were involved with the Olympics, have a negotiated deal, through their respective players associations that allows them to participate.

 

[FerrisRox]

That makes no sense now though, the team Canada of 2018 wasn’t too great.

Besides, winning without the best players participate bitters the after taste

Huh?

What makes no sense?

 

[sandysan]

The federations and the IIHF do this all the time for other tournaments, like for world championships every year. The IIHF contributes like $25'000 for each NHL player coming over to play in the IIHF WHC, that covers part of the insurance bill, and the rest is paid directly by the federations (wich is alot).

The only ones using this excuse was the NHL themselves, no federation was against it.

NHL did not want to participate and moved the goal posts when the IIHF gave a solution acceptable for every other actor involved. I am not saying it is right or wrong here, but to come out and call the IIHF's proposal "blood money" is a bit much.

but the world championships are not the olympics, now are they. and with the olympics, they were getting all of the money.

Why do you think that the IIHF was willing to pay ? To curry favor with the league or to curry favor with the IOC who stood to make a ton of money from NHL participation ?

the fact remains, if the IOC wants to get the best players on the planet, there are some costs that are their responsibility. including travel AND insurance which THEY previously paid. So in addition to not giving the NHL " top sponsor" status, in addition to NOT releasing clips of NHL players at the olympics, the IOC decided that they had no financial responsibilities at ALL.

that the IIHF was willing to take on those responsibilities, does not change the fact that they are still the IOC's.

 

[Star Ocean]

I totally disagree.

Shutting down the NHL for three weeks in mid-season is idiotic.

2 weeks.

And it is not better to have a halfassed tournament during training camp when players are not in form.

 

[LaGu]

but the world championships are not the olympics, now are they. and with the olympics, they were getting all of the money.

Why do you think that the IIHF was willing to pay ? To curry favor with the league or to curry favor with the IOC who stood to make a ton of money from NHL participation ?

the fact remains, if the IOC wants to get the best players on the planet, there are some costs that are their responsibility. including travel AND insurance which THEY previously paid. So in addition to not giving the NHL " top sponsor" status, in addition to NOT releasing clips of NHL players at the olympics, the IOC decided that they had no financial responsibilities at ALL.

that the IIHF was willing to take on those responsibilities, does not change the fact that they are still the IOC's.

This deal was exclusive to hockey, the IOC does not cover these costs for any other sport. That is on the national federations, but in this case when they offered to cover it (via IIHF) it was not good enough.

It's an odd stance (edit: from you I mean), I mean there were many reasons why the NHL did not want to go, but the one discussed right here was a bogus reason. Players are assets to the NHL and to use those assets the NHL expected (and expects) to get paid for it. No other sport has this kind of privilege.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

This deal was exclusive to hockey, the IOC does not cover these costs for any other sport. That is on the national federations, but in this case when they offered to cover it (via IIHF) it was not good enough.

It's an odd stance (edit: from you I mean), I mean there were many reasons why the NHL did not want to go, but the one discussed right here was a bogus reason. Players are assets to the NHL and to use those assets the NHL expected (and expects) to get paid for it. No other sport has this kind of privilege.

No other winter sport deserves that kind of privilege.

 

[LaGu]

No other winter sport deserves that kind of privilege.

It's winter and summer.

I guess you could say that the wider audience does not deserve the right to see their best players in the only best on best national tournament.

 

[Voight]

what makes the league money is the gate. its still a gate driven league which is why the playoffs are so lucrative. Does broacast and merchandise ( and in China lets not pretend that all of that gear is liscenced) bring in money ? Sure. but its not the majority of the teams revenue.

... well thats how the NBA makes money in China, other than a few exhibition games.

 

[Voight]

You're proving my point for me here. Yes, clearly the best players in the world are going to want to go play in the Olympics because they actually have a shot at playing on those teams. The vast majority of NHLers will never play in the Olympics.

Sure but has any NHL player ever actually said going to the Olympics is a bad idea?

The would have no say whatsoever in whether he participated or not. NBA players, much like the NHL players when they were involved with the Olympics, have a negotiated deal, through their respective players associations that allows them to participate.

There have been cases when a player is coming off an injury and teams have said to stay home. I suppose they cannot force them but when they are paying you tens of millions of dollars you're likely to listen.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Sure but has any NHL player ever actually said going to the Olympics is a bad idea?



There have been cases when a player is coming off an injury and teams have said to stay home. I suppose they cannot force them but when they are paying you tens of millions of dollars you're likely to listen.

The point is not whether or not they've said it's bad, but it's not like your hearing 3rd and 4th line guys lobbying for NHLers to go to the Olympics. They gain absolutely no benefit from that small amount of players going to the Olympics. It's an opportunity for roughly only 19% of NHLers (based on 2014 olympic rosters).

 

[Voight]

The point is not whether or not they've said it's bad, but it's not like your hearing 3rd and 4th line guys lobbying for NHLers to go to the Olympics. They gain absolutely no benefit from that small amount of players going to the Olympics. It's an opportunity for roughly only 19% of NHLers (based on 2014 olympic rosters).

1/5th of the league is not actually that bad though.

Anyways I doubt the guys who don't make it hate having 2 weeks of rest in the middle of the season.

& if bottom 6ers lobbied, nobody would care TBH. Media isn't going to make a story out of that

 

[sandysan]

... well thats how the NBA makes money in China, other than a few exhibition games.

The NBA isn't reliant on the gate ( their TV deals are much better)