NHL is damaging its reputation with useless ASG and missing Olympics

[TheBloodyNine]

1/5th of the league is not actually that bad though.

Anyways I doubt the guys who don't make it hate having 2 weeks of rest in the middle of the season.

& if bottom 6ers lobbied, nobody would care TBH. Media isn't going to make a story out of that

In 2014, only 145 NHLers made Olympic teams. It's not about being bad players, its that even good players don't get to play on these teams. Hell, NHLers are actually the MINORITY at the Olympics. In 2014, NHLers only made up 48% of rosters.

If bottom sixers lobbied it'd be even more impactful. "This guy doesn't have a shot at making a squad and even HE wants NHLers at the Olympics."

Apropos of nothing, I have no doubt at all that the NHL is going to trojan horse the Olympic participation into the next CBA in order to gain concessions they want, thereby screwing over 80% of the league's players.

 

[Eisen]

by taking money away from national federations.

the nhl was right to refuse blood money

A bit dramatic.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

To be fair, the other major sports have shit all star games and skip the Olympics too

 

[sandysan]

A bit dramatic.

if you have an extra 20 million kicking around to take from grassroots development, what would you call this.

that 20 million to appease and enrich the IOC, comes out of development across the globe.

I thought the IIHF's mandate was to increase participation and grow the game globally. I am not sure how siphoning 20 million to give it to an entitity that raises BILLIONS makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[FerrisRox]

2 weeks.

And it is not better to have a halfassed tournament during training camp when players are not in form.

Its much closer to three weeks.

And the notion of athletes - in any sport - that are "out of shape" or out of form in training camp is laughably dated.

There is nothing "half assed" about the Canada Cup Tournaments that have taken pace in the past. In fact, the 1987 Canada Cup final is widely regarded as among the best hockey that has ever been played.

Your claim is silly, at best.

 

[MessierII]

What I’ve never understood is why the league feels it has to shut down. Let the Olympian’s go and continue with the regular schedule.

 

[Eisen]

if you have an extra 20 million kicking around to take from grassroots development, what would you call this.

that 20 million to appease and enrich the IOC, comes out of development across the globe.

I thought the IIHF's mandate was to increase participation and grow the game globally. I am not sure how siphoning 20 million to give it to an entitity that raises BILLIONS makes a whole lot of sense.

It's still not blood money.

 

[txpd]

What I’ve never understood is why the league feels it has to shut down. Let the Olympian’s go and continue with the regular schedule.

A quick look at the Capitals shows at least 6 forwards and 3 defensemen on Olympic rosters. You cant just play thru that. That is half the team's skaters. That doesn't include Gudas, Hagelin, Panik and Siegenthaler who likely are on their teams as well.

 

[garbageteam]

by taking money away from national federations.

the nhl was right to refuse blood money

Olympic participation -> increased attention and viewership -> more funding, attention and legitimacy for these said federations

It's not predestined which countries get to play either so the benefits aren't automatically distributed to the same federations. The top 6-7 are pretty much pre-ordained, yes, but there's still almost 4-5 spots up for grabs every four years based on a combination of rankings and a qualifying tournament.

 

[sandysan]

It's still not blood money.

its money offered by a third party to advance someone else. money that by all accounts one of the parties is responsible for, and has been responsible for in the past.

when that money is prevented to going to whom it was designed for the sole purpose of enriching a party who wants to welch on their responsibilities, that's close enough.

 

[sandysan]

Olympic participation -> increased attention and viewership -> more funding, attention and legitimacy for these said federations

It's not predestined which countries get to play either so the benefits aren't automatically distributed to the same federations. The top 6-7 are pretty much pre-ordained, yes, but there's still almost 4-5 spots up for grabs every four years based on a combination of rankings and a qualifying tournament.

your arrows have never been proven, for the last 20 years straight. the ioc certainly see more money, but that's because they dont pay the draw and having the best players improves the draw.

lets see how many sponsors are willingt to throw money at the ioc when its team " who?" vs team " has beens and never weres"

NBC certainly has a dog in this fight because they know no one is tuning into a gussied up less talnted world shampionships.

 

[MessierII]

your arrows have never been proven, for the last 20 years straight. the ioc certainly see more money, but that's because they dont pay the draw and having the best players improves the draw.

lets see how many sponsors are willingt to throw money at the ioc when its team " who?" vs team " has beens and never weres"

NBC certainly has a dog in this fight because they know no one is tuning into a gussied up less talnted world shampionships.

You have one of the most viewed events in the world and it’s better exposure to not play in it?

 

[Roomtemperature]

To be fair, the other major sports have **** all star games and skip the Olympics too

Nba is the only league that has the Olympics smack dab in the off season and is a sport in the Olympics. And honestly how important international bball is to American players goes in waves.

Hell didn't soccer change its format to an under 23 games? Shows how much prestige that has.

 

[sandysan]

This deal was exclusive to hockey, the IOC does not cover these costs for any other sport. That is on the national federations, but in this case when they offered to cover it (via IIHF) it was not good enough.

It's an odd stance (edit: from you I mean), I mean there were many reasons why the NHL did not want to go, but the one discussed right here was a bogus reason. Players are assets to the NHL and to use those assets the NHL expected (and expects) to get paid for it. No other sport has this kind of privilege.

For the previous four Olympics, the Ioc DID cover those costs.

So to suggest that it was not their responsibility is a lie. It was.

And becuase the Ioc works on a model that is 100 percent exploitive, doesn't mean that becuase they do it consistently that it's ok.

The "other" sports are not the most popular team sport at the winter Olympics. and if we are looking at what every other business on the planet does, why does the IOC get to be the ONLY one that doesn't pay the draw? Becuase they say they can't?

When they had amateurs ( for some countries only) this could be defended in theory. When the reverse a century of precedent and allowed pros, that argument goes poof.

The argument that they can't pay is a lie. They can and like every other business they should (on principle). They would just rather not pay so that they get 100 percent of the profits with zero percent of the liabilities off the backs of professional athletes.

 

[sandysan]

You have one of the most viewed events in the world and it’s better exposure to not play in it?

Once every four years and not a day inbetween with NO ability to use any clips at all ( even during the Olympics) to tie the two together?

The nhl isn't luge and those 2 weeks where the Nhl gets zero dollars wont give the Nhl a bump for those 14 days much less the 4 years in between.

All of these eyes are like rubber necks looking at a car crash. People do it, they have no idea who the principle are or what their story is outside of the crash and them, when the traffic speeds up again, it's forgotten until someone else crashes sometime in the future.

It's a spectacle like a flash mob. It hasn't brought in New viewers.

How many causal viewers knew who tj oshie plays for, or who his teammates are or how that team is doing?

The nhl would have loved to say " you saw tj oshie in the shootout, now see him and the caps take on the Rangers on Tuesday night". But they could notnot becuase they were contractually prevented from doing so by their "partner" .

Screw the ioc

 

[sandysan]

Sure but has any NHL player ever actually said going to the Olympics is a bad idea?

The players are under contract. When they signed those contracts, what they would like to do kinda becomes moot.

Lots of people would like to leave their jobs at will ( and enrich a competitor business) but that's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

If the players want to go, they should put that language in their contracts or breach.

Funny how exactly zero have.

Funny indeed.


There have been cases when a player is coming off an injury and teams have said to stay home. I suppose they cannot force them but when they are paying you tens of millions of dollars you're likely to listen.

 

[LaGu]

For the previous four Olympics, the Ioc DID cover those costs.

So to suggest that it was not their responsibility is a lie. It was.

And becuase the Ioc works on a model that is 100 percent exploitive, doesn't mean that becuase they do it consistently that it's ok.

The "other" sports are not the most popular team sport at the winter Olympics. and if we are looking at what every other business on the planet does, why does the IOC get to be the ONLY one that doesn't pay the draw? Becuase they say they can't?

When they had amateurs ( for some countries only) this could be defended in theory. When the reverse a century of precedent and allowed pros, that argument goes poof.

The argument that they can't pay is a lie. They can and like every other business they should (on principle). They would just rather not pay so that they get 100 percent of the profits with zero percent of the liabilities off the backs of professional athletes.

I don't really see how this addresses what I wrote at all. I know they paid, that was part of the deal, but they only pay hockey and no other sport. It was time to renew the deal and they did not, based on principle. You talk about this principle but then go on and say scrap it because hockey is a special case? By the way, other sports include summer Olympics, for which the deal is the same, i.e. national federations take the bill. In world championships they national federations take most of the bills, in national team tournaments they take most of the bill. You act as if this is a special case in which the IOC does something which no other organization does, this is obviously false.

By the way, the IOC also pays money directly to athletes who compete. So you're talk about "off the backs of professional athletes that is a bit odd. You are not talking about the interest of the athletes, you are talking about the interest of the NHL owners, that is very different.

I mean you seem to have problems with the IOC in general, do you want them to just scrap everything? Are you proposing a general boycott for all winter and summer sports in the Olympics until IOC pays everyone?

The IOC never said they cannot pay, they did it for a while and then said stop. That was because of the principle that they don't pay anyone else for it so why should hockey be a special case. I mean I would have preferred that they kept on paying, because I want to see hockey in the Olympics, but I obviously understand why they stopped.

 

[sandysan]

You have one of the most viewed events in the world and it’s better exposure to not play in it?

When you have to accept all of the liabilities, stop your season, risk player injury, enrich a corrupt organization all for the chance to get precisely zero dollars and zero cents along with zero future marketing abilities that you control?

The answer is yes.

 

[LaGu]

Funny citing principle and that the IOC is greedy (which they are by the way) and compare that with the NHL... Greed is literally the reason why the NHL opted out.

 

[LaGu]

When you have to accept all of the liabilities, stop your season, risk player injury, enrich a corrupt organization all for the chance to get precisely zero dollars and zero cents along with zero future marketing abilities that you control?

The answer is yes.

never mind.

edit: you think IOC is corrupt, greedy and whatever else bad things, on the other hand the NHL are white knights standing up for all that is right in the sports world. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

I think I am done here.

 

[sandysan]

I don't really see how this addresses what I wrote at all. I know they paid, that was part of the deal, but they only pay hockey and no other sport. It was time to renew the deal and they did not, based on principle. You talk about this principle but then go on and say scrap it because hockey is a special case? By the way, other sports include summer Olympics, for which the deal is the same, i.e. national federations take the bill. In world championships they national federations take most of the bills, in national team tournaments they take most of the bill. You act as if this is a special case in which the IOC does something which no other organization does, this is obviously false.

By the way, the IOC also pays money directly to athletes who compete. So you're talk about "off the backs of professional athletes that is a bit odd. You are not talking about the interest of the athletes, you are talking about the interest of the NHL owners, that is very different.

I mean you seem to have problems with the IOC in general, do you want them to just scrap everything? Are you proposing a general boycott for all winter and summer sports in the Olympics until IOC pays everyone?

The IOC never said they cannot pay, they did it for a while and then said stop. That was because of the principle that they don't pay anyone else for it so why should hockey be a special case. I mean I would have preferred that they kept on paying, because I want to see hockey in the Olympics, but I obviously understand why they stopped.

On principle you pay the draw. Every other business on the planet does. Every single one.

So the Ioc can decide to unilaterally change the contract to ensure that their responsibilities are off loaded to someone else, but the Nhl can't do the same ( say by asking for top sponsor status in return for providing the draw) becuase the Ioc pulls out their pockets and cries poor?

The Ioc acts like a business with its broadcast partners AND with its protection of intellectual property. This makes them billions. When the Nhl ( another business) does the same the Ioc says " we can't do that" exclusively on their word and desire to control every cent of the revenue and apologists accept that they can't becuase they are obviously so trustworthy.

No.

Im glad the Nhl came to its senses and finally said that th Ioc can go pound sand.

 

[sandysan]

never mind.

edit: you think IOC is corrupt, greedy and whatever else bad things, on the other hand the NHL are white knights standing up for all that is right in the sports world. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

I think I am done here.

I don't think those things, that implies there is some possibility of me being wrong. I know those things, and anyone who looks at their actions would see the same.

And don't put words in my mouth as you fellate one of the most evil corrupt corporations in existence, chief.

 

[thadd]

I really wouldn't be surprised if the NHL skipped the Olympics again. Who is going to watch hockey games if they're playing in Asia? The time difference is insane. Is China going to give the NHL the deal they're looking for? The NHL doesn't just want $$$. They want insurance, protection and the whole world served to them on a silver plater.

They probably want an extension on their TV deal with China and they probably want a lot more money than what China is paying now. Actually not sure if you can even watch NHL on TV in China anymore. I was watching for a few years. They had really good guys calling the games but they were replaced by a couple of kids whose parents paid for them to get a TV gig and they knew nothing about hockey so I stopped watching NHL on CCTV.

 

[Eisen]

Funny citing principle and that the IOC is greedy (which they are by the way) and compare that with the NHL... Greed is literally the reason why the NHL opted out.

It's the reason why the NHL has the form it has. No second leagues, buying franchises, no franchise rooted in one place. Seeing sport as an investment is rotten. If you can make of it, nice, if it's reason it exists, horrible.

 

[LaGu]

I don't think those things, that implies there is some possibility of me being wrong. I know those things, and anyone who looks at their actions would see the same.

And don't put words in my mouth as you ******e one of the most evil corrupt corporations in existence, chief.

I am not putting anything in your mouth son. I am clarifying that I understand your point of view, which you just confirmed in the same post.

I have no interest to go into a shouting match insulting other posters on hfboards, we're all fans of the same game. So thanks for the discussion up until the last post and have a nice day.