NHL in 2025 (mod: more Canadian teams, fewer US sunbelt teams)

[Melrose Munch]

Re the bolded 'quote.' I've been reading these boards for years and can't recall anyone saying anything close to that. The others are a stretch too -- except for the "Bettman hates Canada." I have seen that one occasionally.

There are more than a few people like that in this country. Can't say for sure on these boards but I know people like that for sure.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Toronto drew 50k for the Bills giveways or not. That says volumes. The Argos only draw when Sask or Ham is in town and those are mostly the other sides fans. The CFL is fine but Hamilton and Toronto are dragging it down. It this Moncton thing gets going the Argos could be gone.

Amazing that a CFL team in little Moncton could result in the demise of one of the oldest professional sports franchises in North America.

Toronto Argonauts (1873 - 201?) RIP. Blame it on Moncton.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

There are more than a few people like that in this country. Can't say for sure on these boards but I know people like that for sure.

I don't and I've never heard that sentiment -- that Canadians have a birthright to decide where teams are located -- here or elsewhere. I have heard that Canada deserves and can support more teams, though. I have heard complaints regarding how the NHL has relocated teams or placed new teams in places with little fan interest and has ignored other perhaps more deserving markets.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Quite selfish

We are not selfish.

We support the league - 40% of all league revenues next year will come from North of the 49th.

We supply the players - ~55% of the players are Canadian. Of the Top 30 scorers in the NHL last year, 19 were Canucks. Of the 21 players who played for the Bruins in the finals, 16 were Canadian.

We deserve another team or two. If the NHL is not being supported in Phoenix or Florida and the league considers moving a team to Canada, don't blame us. If the roles were reversed you would be saying "Supply and Demand".

When "Supply and Demand" works in our favour, we are "selfish"?

Sounds like "Blame Canada".

 

[Melrose Munch]

We are not selfish.

We support the league - 40% of all league revenues next year will come from North of the 49th.

We supply the players - ~55% of the players are Canadian. Of the Top 30 scorers in the NHL last year, 19 were Canucks. Of the 21 players who played for the Bruins in the finals, 16 were Canadian.

We deserve another team or two. If the NHL is not being supported in Phoenix or Florida and the league considers moving a team to Canada, don't blame us. If the roles were reversed you would be saying "Supply and Demand".

When "Supply and Demand" works in our favour, we are "selfish"?

Sounds like "Blame Canada".

Well that is the last 6 years. Before that we lost two teams and and were about to lose two more. And besides the majority of that 40 percent is coming from the pockets of Montreal and Toronto. Everything else is true though.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I have seen this over and over again in the Coyote section of HF. It is all "Big, Bad Canada's" fault.

Yet I am sure those same people (15 years ago when teams were leaving Canada) were saying the League could not be faulted for moving to greener pastures. Could not be faulted for following the smell of money. Could not be faulted for being Capatalist.

Now, when that no longer works in their favour and starts to work against them, it is "Those Big Bad Bullies from the North" are coming to the "Little ol US of A" with their strong Canadian dollar and buying up our country during our time of need. Poor US(A).

I am sure none of those same people shed a tear for the people of Winnipeg or QC city when the roles were reversed.

 

[Colin226]

We are not selfish.

We support the league - 40% of all league revenues next year will come from North of the 49th.

We supply the players - ~55% of the players are Canadian. Of the Top 30 scorers in the NHL last year, 19 were Canucks. Of the 21 players who played for the Bruins in the finals, 16 were Canadian.

We deserve another team or two. If the NHL is not being supported in Phoenix or Florida and the league considers moving a team to Canada, don't blame us. If the roles were reversed you would be saying "Supply and Demand".

When "Supply and Demand" works in our favour, we are "selfish"?

Sounds like "Blame Canada".

The thing about Canada is it can be an absolute last resort.. That's already been shown.. But you're basically going along with what I said.. You guys have such a passion for the sport already that it can't grow anymore.. The thing is, the sport needs to continue to grow.. It needs a bigger talent pool, as a bigger pool gives you more chances of a Crosby or Ovechkin coming along to be the face of the league.. It taps into new markets..

Canada is great and I completely respect the passion, but the sport won't grow if it moves out of the south and into Canada.. It'll mean wealthier teams now, but 25 years from now the talent and fans that could be coming out of the south won't be there, and you still won't have more people in Canada deciding to play and watch hockey.. Like I said, is there some kid in Quebec City who doesn't care about hockey now, but would have if only he had a team there? I find it improbable

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Well that is the last 6 years. Before that we lost two teams and and were about to lose two more. And besides the majority of that 40 percent is coming from the pockets of Montreal and Toronto. Everything else is true though.

The majority of the money -- i.e., 50% plus -- the NHL makes in Canada does not come from the cities of Toronto and Montreal. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Amazing that a CFL team in little Moncton could result in the demise of one of the oldest professional sports franchises in North America.

Toronto Argonauts (1873 - 201?) RIP. Blame it on Moncton.

The Argos will always survive. The league needs them to.

Even if the CFL has to redistribute revenue to prop up Toronto (once Brailey decides he has had enough) it will be done. They cannot grow without the Corporate support of the country's biggest city.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

The majority of the money -- i.e., 50% plus -- the NHL makes in Canada does not come from the cities of Toronto and Montreal. Don't be ridiculous.

I THINK he meant that if 40% of the league revenues come from Canada, 50%+ (of that 40%) will come from Toronto and Montreal.

If that is the case, I also do not agree with that statement.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

The thing about Canada is it can be an absolute last resort.. That's already been shown.. But you're basically going along with what I said.. You guys have such a passion for the sport already that it can't grow anymore.. The thing is, the sport needs to continue to grow.. It needs a bigger talent pool, as a bigger pool gives you more chances of a Crosby or Ovechkin coming along to be the face of the league.. It taps into new markets..

Canada is great and I completely respect the passion, but the sport won't grow if it moves out of the south and into Canada.. It'll mean wealthier teams now, but 25 years from now the talent and fans that could be coming out of the south won't be there, and you still won't have more people in Canada deciding to play and watch hockey.. Like I said, is there some kid in Quebec City who doesn't care about hockey now, but would have if only he had a team there? I find it improbable

Why does the sport need to grow? Would you support any type of growth no matter how achieved? How about moving every NHL team out of N.A. that does not exist in a market above X million people so that only Montreal and Toronto existed in Canada and say 5 or 6 teams in the USA. The remaining teams in other locations would be relocated around the globe to major cities in Europe, Asia, Latin America, etc. to support the growth of hockey. That would grow the game, but not everyone would be happy with the new NHL.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I THINK he meant that if 40% of the league revenues come from Canada, 50%+ (of that 40%) will come from Toronto and Montreal.

If that is the case, I also do not agree with that statement.

Yes it is and I disagree with you.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The Argos will always survive. The league needs them to.

Even if the CFL has to redistribute revenue to prop up Toronto (once Brailey decides he has had enough) it will be done. They cannot grow without the Corporate support of the country's biggest city.

CFL has it can be number one without Toronto. I disagree with this simply because all the other teams are making money except for Toronto and Hamilton.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

The thing about Canada is it can be an absolute last resort.. That's already been shown.. But you're basically going along with what I said.. You guys have such a passion for the sport already that it can't grow anymore.. The thing is, the sport needs to continue to grow.. It needs a bigger talent pool, as a bigger pool gives you more chances of a Crosby or Ovechkin coming along to be the face of the league.. It taps into new markets..

Canada is great and I completely respect the passion, but the sport won't grow if it moves out of the south and into Canada.. It'll mean wealthier teams now, but 25 years from now the talent and fans that could be coming out of the south won't be there, and you still won't have more people in Canada deciding to play and watch hockey.. Like I said, is there some kid in Quebec City who doesn't care about hockey now, but would have if only he had a team there? I find it improbable

I see what you are saying.

A Canadian hockey write (Al Strachan) use to say something similar. He said "the NHL does NOT gain even one more fan by putting another team in Canada."

And you are both right.

BUT, I still see people starving for hockey up here and empty arenas in the south so... my heart and my mind will always put Canada first.

Fair enough?

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Yes it is and I disagree with you.

Let's see the number crunch. That's ridiculous and demonstrably false.

 

[headsigh]

To be, you know, profitable. If the Canadian dollar falls, US teams are paying for it- see the 90s. Canada is going to be a hockey hotbed always. But unless the loonie's worth grows exponentially, there will always be a sort of "ceiling" to profit.

Also, if the NHL were a Canadian team only league, it would have the same global scope as competitive Starcraft.

 

[MeowLeafs]

I think Toronto can support 3 NHL teams

 

[Colin226]

Why does the sport need to grow? Would you support any type of growth no matter how achieved? How about moving every NHL team out of N.A. that does not exist in a market above X million people so that only Montreal and Toronto existed in Canada and say 5 or 6 teams in the USA. The remaining teams in other locations would be relocated around the globe to major cities in Europe, Asia, Latin America, etc. to support the growth of hockey.

I would support that if it made sense in terms of logistics.. The NHL Premiere thing is the best they can do, but it's clearly an attempt to grow the sport in Europe (which is also a great place to go, and I admit it's probably a better place to grow the sport if not for the distance).. But I do believe that every realistic amount of support should be made.. I like that the NHL is doing its best to keep Phoenix there as it's a great market (they just haven't had great teams to get excited about and Phoenix has always been a fair weather city).. I think if it's still struggling in 3 years then you have to evaluate it, but right now I think they need to stick it out while Glendale is supporting the team and the Coyotes are doing pretty well

Did hockey lose interest in Winnipeg when it was without a team? Did people stop playing the game?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

CFL has said it can be number one without Toronto. I disagree with this simply because all the other teams are making money except for Toronto and Hamilton.

Yes, but can it grow without the biggest city in Canada?

Anyway, I think Hamilton is a new stadium away from making a (very) small profit so... Maybe Toronto will get on board soon as well.

 

[Colin226]

I see what you are saying.

A Canadian hockey write (Al Strachan) use to say something similar. He said "the NHL does NOT gain even one more fan by putting another team in Canada."

And you are both right.

BUT, I still see people starving for hockey up here and empty arenas in the south so... my heart and my mind will always put Canada first.

Fair enough?

Sounds fair to me

 

[headsigh]

I think Toronto can support 3 NHL teams

They can't. Toronto/Hamilton is plausible, Toronto x3 or Toronto/Toronto/Hamilton is not.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Let's see the number crunch. That's ridiculous and demonstrably false.

Toronto is number and Montreal is number 3. Are you denying the fact they are the two strongest markets and the two biggest? Both teams contribute the most to rev sharing. The Oilers are losing money from the mouth of the owner himself.

To be, you know, profitable. If the Canadian dollar falls, US teams are paying for it- see the 90s. Canada is going to be a hockey hotbed always. But unless the loonie's worth grows exponentially, there will always be a sort of "ceiling" to profit.

Also, if the NHL were a Canadian team only league, it would have the same global scope as competitive Star craft.

Why too many people here don't understand this. A Canadian only NHL would be awful.,

 

[Ryan34222]

Yes they will. Jays haven't been contenders since many people on this site were born and that's why. People in Toronto aren't intrested in a non-leafs team that isn't a contender, yet the Jays still manage 20,000+ and have excellent TV ratings. Attendence has been rising the past few years and its not going to stop. They're the only non Leafs team that has seen this trend, the Raptors, Argos and TFC are all trending down because they're gotten worse.

The Argos do well. It doesn't matter they don't sell out. With such a low payroll it doesn't matter unless.

Unless the Jays are opening up a brand new state of the art facility the won't see over 30000 avg IMO. Especially if they keep the damn lid closed..

 

[Melrose Munch]

Yes, but can it grow without the biggest city in Canada?

Anyway, I think Hamilton is a new stadium away from making a (very) small profit so... Maybe Toronto will get on board soon as well.

Not as much as it should. The reality is right now while POG has said the Argos do well, Toronto has tuned them out. All I see when I go to work is Steelers, Raiders, Cowboys, 49ers gear on everyone. I personally think a Toronto team would do well but that's just me.

 

[New User Name]

They can't. Toronto/Hamilton is plausible, Toronto x3 or Toronto/Toronto/Hamilton is not.

And you base that on what?

And for those that say hockey can't grow in Canada. You have no idea what you're talking about.