Next Year (21/22) : Lines/Roster Moves

[Gniwder]

I don't see Berggren making top 6, So you have to ask yourself what is better for a younger players development, bottom six in the NHL or top 6 in Minors ?

You're acting as if playing on the 3rd line somehow ruins a prospect. Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Tats, Nyquist, AA all started out on the bottom 2 lines.

Veleno should be playing in the NHL, and Pearson and Berggren should get a chance.

If the coaches aren't capable of developing players at the NHL level then the whole staff should be fired.

 

[MrKriben]

To be fair, he was shredding the SHL while playing 3rd line minutes in Skelleftea for much of the year.

And I think Wings fans in general need to get away from this "over-ripen them on the farm" mentality. That if they can't play 17+ minutes a night in the NHL then they shouldn't be playing in the NHL. The kids will learn much more playing in the pros where we hope they will spend the vast majority of their playing careers than they will from the minors. And some of them, namely Veleno, Seider and Berggren, have little to nothing left to prove at the minor league level.

Would it be nice to see Berggren handle the rough stuff at the AHL level? Sure, but the AHL is at this point even more physical than the NHL. I don't think him getting pushed around by the Dylan McIlraths of the league will do him any favors when we want him to play against and beat NHL defenseman who can take the puck away from him through more than physically dominating him. Berggren is better off trying his moves against vets like Duncan Keith and Drew Doughty and Brent Burns than against some AHL pylons.

Would it be nice to see Veleno become a high scoring AHL center? Sure, but points aside his SHL season was a success. He joined a Malmo squad that was at or near the relegation mark in the standings and was slotted into the 2nd line of an offensively inept underachiever. Veleno was one of the team's top 5 players and helped get them into the postseason. He showed much improved defense, speed and shooting ability. He scored more when playing as a winger than as a center but that's because the center has more defensive responsibilities in Sweden.

I can understand starting them (Veleno and Berggren) in the minors while we deal with overcrowding on the bottom half of the roster with the idea of calling them up after 20ish games though I would prefer to have them up full time until they prove they don't belong. Their skating and passing ability are better than most of the players we had on the roster last year and both are great at getting the puck up ice. Someone recently posted a tableau graph that showed how pitiful we were at zone entries last year so we'd have to be insane to ignore Veleno and Berggren's potential to help the team in this area.

I agree with this. In general I am against bringing players over to try them out in the AHL, if they are a part of your yearly plan for the NHL team, play them and if not, let them be and develop them where they are.
Raymond and Berggren has had 1½-2 years in SHL against senior players and done well, I doubt they have anyhing to learn from AHL.
Also, what do the Red Wings have to lose? Points and a better chance at the draft?

Edit: So why did I want Johansson to remain in SHL? Well, I don't think he is as ready for NHL as the others are and need to develop his own zone play more before doing the jump but once he do, I have the same opinion as with Raymond and Berggren, it should be because Stevie sees him on the NHL roster.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

You're acting as if playing on the 3rd line somehow ruins a prospect. Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Tats, Nyquist, AA all started out on the bottom 2 lines.

Veleno should be playing in the NHL, and Pearson and Berggren should get a chance.

If the coaches aren't capable of developing players at the NHL level then the whole staff should be fired.

I already don’t think they are capable of developing players at the NHL level. All of our prospects are not showing the offensive talent capable of them. Look at zadina, his shot really hasn’t improved much since his draft year. Our team can’t coach shooters what so ever, this is my main reason for wanting blash gone, I don’t think we have developed our players very well.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I already don’t think they are capable of developing players at the NHL level. All of our prospects are not showing the offensive talent capable of them. Look at zadina, his shot really hasn’t improved much since his draft year. Our team can’t coach shooters what so ever, this is my main reason for wanting blash gone, I don’t think we have developed our players very well.

Just too much decline on the team. Everyone's numbers suffered and there was no confidence. I don't blame Blashill for not working overtime helping Zadina with his slapshot.

With more skill on the team there will be more 'clean' scoring plays, more possession hockey, players will get more confidence. If Zadina doesn't bounce back next season when getting passes from Berggren, Seider, Leddy, Suter, I will start getting more worried about him.

 

[Snuggs]

Only guy I'd like to see Yzerman bring is Jake Virtanen. 6th overall, has scored some goals in this league, can fit in somewhere as a middle six winger. Younger, 25. Don't have to break the bank, likely a 2-3 year deal.

This is what I think the roster/lines will look like. Not sure about special teams.


Tyler Bertuzzi – (C) Dylan Larkin – Jakub Vrana
Filip Zadina – Pius Suter – Robbie Fabbri
Adam Erne – Michael Rasmussen – Jake Virtanen
Vladislav Namestnikov – Mitchell Stephens– (A) Sam Gagner

* Frans Nielson, C/LW
* Givani Smith, RW

(A) Marc Staal – Filip Hronek
Nick Leddy – Moritz Seider
Jordan Oesterle – Troy Stetcher

* Danny DeKeyser LHD

Alex Nedeljkovic
Thomas Greiss

 

[DInTheB]

Only guy I'd like to see Yzerman bring is Jake Virtanen. 6th overall, has scored some goals in this league, can fit in somewhere as a middle six winger. Younger, 25. Don't have to break the bank, likely a 2-3 year deal.

This is what I think the roster/lines will look like. Not sure about special teams.


Tyler Bertuzzi – (C) Dylan Larkin – Jakub Vrana
Filip Zadina – Pius Suter – Robbie Fabbri
Adam Erne – Michael Rasmussen – Jake Virtanen
Vladislav Namestnikov – Mitchell Stephens– (A) Sam Gagner

* Frans Nielson, C/LW
* Givani Smith, RW/RHD

(A) Marc Staal – Filip Hronek
Nick Leddy – Moritz Seider
Jordan Oesterle – Troy Stetcher

* Danny DeKeyser LHD

Alex Nedeljkovic
Thomas Greiss

Virtanen was recently accused of sexual assault. There is zero chance he’s coming here.

 

[Snuggs]

Virtanen was recently accused of sexual assault. There is zero chance he’s coming here.

OH wow... Yeah I'd agree I had no idea.

 

[DoMakc]

Virtanen was recently accused of sexual assault. There is zero chance he’s coming here.

Yeah, he is Canadiens bound.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Just too much decline on the team. Everyone's numbers suffered and there was no confidence. I don't blame Blashill for not working overtime helping Zadina with his slapshot.

With more skill on the team there will be more 'clean' scoring plays, more possession hockey, players will get more confidence. If Zadina doesn't bounce back next season when getting passes from Berggren, Seider, Leddy, Suter, I will start getting more worried about him.

Same. I was bullish when we drafted him (Partly because his being ranked 3/4 on most lists) and said that his ceiling is maybe a less speedy Vlad Tarasenko and his floor is Nino Niederreiter, but I questioned that after last season. Maybe his ceiling is Nino Niederreiter and his floor is Brett Connolly...?

If that's the case maybe we can ship him to Holland for Holloway and a 2nd?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Only guy I'd like to see Yzerman bring is Jake Virtanen. 6th overall, has scored some goals in this league, can fit in somewhere as a middle six winger. Younger, 25. Don't have to break the bank, likely a 2-3 year deal.

This is what I think the roster/lines will look like. Not sure about special teams.


Tyler Bertuzzi – (C) Dylan Larkin – Jakub Vrana
Filip Zadina – Pius Suter – Robbie Fabbri
Adam Erne – Michael Rasmussen – Jake Virtanen
Vladislav Namestnikov – Mitchell Stephens– (A) Sam Gagner

* Frans Nielson, C/LW
* Givani Smith, RW

(A) Marc Staal – Filip Hronek
Nick Leddy – Moritz Seider
Jordan Oesterle – Troy Stetcher

* Danny DeKeyser LHD

Alex Nedeljkovic
Thomas Greiss

Yzerman and the Wings are a zero controversy team. No f***ing way does Jake Virtanen ever put on the Winged wheel. You can file this idea under "shit that will never happen."

And apparently it was multiple sexual assault accusations.

 

[Gniwder]

I already don’t think they are capable of developing players at the NHL level. All of our prospects are not showing the offensive talent capable of them. Look at zadina, his shot really hasn’t improved much since his draft year. Our team can’t coach shooters what so ever, this is my main reason for wanting blash gone, I don’t think we have developed our players very well.

That is why Stevie ditched Disco and hired Alex. If the issue persists then I agree Blash needs to go as well. You can't expect a goalie to teach shooting or skating, lol.

The other option is to bring in consultants/special coaches for shooting and skating. With the money they save by keeping Blash instead of a real coach they can use some of that to hire people to make up for his deficiencies. He's a freakin' goalie. Goalie head coaches rarely do well offensively. Greg Hanlon was an absolute disaster.

 

[Henkka]

That is why Stevie ditched Disco and hired Alex. If the issue persists then I agree Blash needs to go as well. You can't expect a goalie to teach shooting or skating, lol.

The other option is to bring in consultants/special coaches for shooting and skating. With the money they save by keeping Blash instead of a real coach they can use some of that to hire people to make up for his deficiencies. He's a freakin' goalie. Goalie head coaches rarely do well offensively. Greg Hanlon was an absolute disaster.

How about a lawyer with Lacrosse-career, who has won 2 latest Stanley Cups.

It's not at all your past. Totally irrelevant.

And yeah, Yzerman should hire special guys for shooting drills and skating coach to coach skating.

Every detail should have a specialist.

 

[Martinez]

If berggren or Raymond make the team it wouldn’t be crazy to put them on the top line with Larkin like we used to do with zetterberg.

 

[Gniwder]

How about a lawyer with Lacrosse-career, who has won 2 latest Stanley Cups.

It's not at all your past. Totally irrelevant.

And yeah, Yzerman should hire special guys for shooting drills and skating coach to coach skating.

Every detail should have a specialist.

I don't think it's as important with a veteran team, but they have Halpern nonetheless.

There aren't many coaches who are gonna be able to teach Kuch, Point, and Stamkos skills. If anything, I think those guys are helping the kids like Cirelli. The Wings don't have anyone equivalent. The issue is that the veteran presence they kept were all low skill guys like Abby, LGD, and Helm.

I'm hoping Alex is the answer though. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. His career SH% is amazing though.

 

[jaster]

Yeah, he is Canadiens bound.

Blackhawks and Hurricanes poking their head in be like, what's going on over here?

 

[Winger98]

I don't think it's as important with a veteran team, but they have Halpern nonetheless.

There aren't many coaches who are gonna be able to teach Kuch, Point, and Stamkos skills. If anything, I think those guys are helping the kids like Cirelli. The Wings don't have anyone equivalent. The issue is that the veteran presence they kept were all low skill guys like Abby, LGD, and Helm.

I'm hoping Alex is the answer though. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. His career SH% is amazing though.

It's not like the Wings didn't try to keep some talent around, though. Z and Kronwall just fell apart. Weiss was injured. Green's body fell apart. Nielsen...I don't know what happened with him, but his game just fell apart, too. Part of that just goes hand in hand with those guys being older, but if we had younger versions of those guys, we aren't drafting 6th or higher, either.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

I don't think it's as important with a veteran team, but they have Halpern nonetheless.

There aren't many coaches who are gonna be able to teach Kuch, Point, and Stamkos skills. If anything, I think those guys are helping the kids like Cirelli. The Wings don't have anyone equivalent. The issue is that the veteran presence they kept were all low skill guys like Abby, LGD, and Helm.

I'm hoping Alex is the answer though. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. His career SH% is amazing though.

NHL coaching staffs aren't teaching kids to shoot or skate. By the time they're in the league they are expected to be good at those things.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

NHL coaching staffs aren't teaching kids to shoot or skate. By the time they're in the league they are expected to be good at those things.

NHL teams have dedicated skills coaches nowadays, dude.

 

[Gniwder]

NHL coaching staffs aren't teaching kids to shoot or skate. By the time they're in the league they are expected to be good at those things.

The problem is that they aren't. Look at Zadina or Raz. Seider's slapper is lacking too.

Players can develop while in the NHL, go take a look at Tom Wilson. When he entered the league, all he could do was take a run at other players. Now he adds a little scoring. His stick handling has improved considerably. He has a decent slapper now.

Even Ovechkin has changed over the years, his skating stride is much smoother now. Obviously the guy's been working on his slapper continuously. Dude's like 40 YO and still has the hardest shot in the league.

 

[Winger98]

The problem is that they aren't. Look at Zadina or Raz. Seider's slapper is lacking too.

Players can develop while in the NHL, go take a look at Tom Wilson. When he entered the league, all he could do was take a run at other players. Now he adds a little scoring. His stick handling has improved considerably. He has a decent slapper now.

Even Ovechkin has changed over the years, his skating stride is much smoother now. Obviously the guy's been working on his slapper continuously. Dude's like 40 YO and still has the hardest shot in the league.

How much work is done during the season and involves the main coaching group and how much is off-season work where players work more closely with these specialists to prepare for the following season? I'm guessing that while there can be some work done during the season, there isn't a lot of it. If we're going to see any of these guys come in and have a different/better shot/stride/etc., it's going to be at camp. But that's just a guess on my part.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

How much work is done during the season and involves the main coaching group and how much is off-season work where players work more closely with these specialists to prepare for the following season? I'm guessing that while there can be some work done during the season, there isn't a lot of it. If we're going to see any of these guys come in and have a different/better shot/stride/etc., it's going to be at camp. But that's just a guess on my part.

It depends on how much they work on things prior to camp. Darren McCarty started working with a skills coach in Sweden during the offseason in the mid 90's (95 or 96?) and credits him for making him a much better player during that time period. Brayden Point worked with that one super powerskating coach in the offseason for a bit to improve his stride. Players have more time to dedicate to specific skills training prior to camp, but during camp and the season they can still work on certain things. It's just that during the season it's a lot more video work and physical conditioning and maintenance work.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

The problem is that they aren't. Look at Zadina or Raz. Seider's slapper is lacking too.

Players can develop while in the NHL, go take a look at Tom Wilson. When he entered the league, all he could do was take a run at other players. Now he adds a little scoring. His stick handling has improved considerably. He has a decent slapper now.

Even Ovechkin has changed over the years, his skating stride is much smoother now. Obviously the guy's been working on his slapper continuously. Dude's like 40 YO and still has the hardest shot in the league.

Sure players get better but when you are paid millions you are expected to work on your craft on your own. Players hire skating coaches, personal trainers, fitness coaches ect... Basic fundamentals are not the job of an NHL staff. They work with players on systems, strategy, body positioning, angles ect... Team fundamentals.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Oddly enough i feel like Raymond is a perfect duo to zadina as berggren is to vrana.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Oddly enough i feel like Raymond is a perfect duo to zadina as berggren is to vrana.

Raymond & Zadina are both playmaking wingers. I was surprised Zadina passed as much as he did, but he's shaping up to be ~ a 20-25G, 30-35A, though Ray is def. more of a playmaker. Hopefully Zadina regains some confidence & finds the open space to shoot his accurate laser.

One common theme in our Top9, speed and/or acceleration, skating.


Good to great:

Larkin
Vrana
Veleno
Raymond
Berggren

well above average to decent:
Fabbri
Suter
Zadina

above average:
Bert, but is timely with his efforts around the crease to maximize momentum/scoring opps., coming from off the boards or in traffic. Smart skater imo.

add: Seider, Hronek, Al Jo, Edvinsson +++++

we'll be playing keep away/catch us if you can.

 

[Run the Jewels]

OK let me take a crack at this now that the roster is more or less set.

Tyler Bertuzzi – Dylan Larkin – Lucas Raymond
Filip Zadina – Pius Suter – Jakub Vrana
Adam Erne – Mitchell Stephens – Robbie Fabbri
Vladislav Namestnikov – Joe Veleno– Michael Rasmussen

Sam Gagne
Givani Smith

Nick Leddy – Moritz Seider
Marc Staal – Filip Hronek
Jordan Oesterle – Gustav Lindstrom

Troy Stetcher
Danny DeKeyser

Alex Nedeljkovic
Thomas Greiss