Next Year (21/22) : Lines/Roster Moves

[Henkka]

Sadly you can probably scratch out veleno, im hoping berggren sticks but i wouldnt be surprised if he starts in ahl , im sure yzerman will try to get us to tank , maybe sign A few more ufa vets to 1 yr deals

Im sure he’ll want to be at the bottom again for 2022 and quite frankly he should, we need that 1/2 pick

It seems that Yzerman is not gonna TANK, he is gonna build this team legit and better, step-by-step. He did bring in UFA 2C, traded for proven Leddy, will bring in Seider as the 1st candidate for Calder and also did an upgrade on goaltending.

Biggest improvement will be seen in transition defence, by adding 2 pieces with Hronek. We did have maybe 1,5 at last season with struggling Cholowski, but now we have 3 pieces. Now there are 3 skill defencemen, one in each pair, to move the puck much more constantly out from own zone, than many seasons before. This will impact on everything, also on forward production, because we play much more on in the offensive end, from now on.

The best way to tank would probably be to bring in all the kids all at once. Berggren is going to have a hell of a transition; Veleno has been slow to adjust at every level. Seider is probably most well equipped, but still to expect him to have a massive impact that we hope for down the line is very unlikely early in the NHL

It didn't go this way either. Maybe one kid has a slot (Veleno?) Yzerman did get mostly in-prime players. He is not gonna bring all the kids, or a vet team either. In-prime player -building goes heavily against the tanking.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I'm not sure every year you can over sign vets to contracts and say that rookies must outplay them all in order to make the roster AND be of the opinion it must only be in top 6 roles.

Very very few rookies outplay vets for top 6 roles out of the gate except McDavid level guys.

Most rookies start in the bottom 6 in a slot that was intentionally left open for them, are insulated and then move up from there.

Valeno should have a bottom 6 role specifically left open for him that INLY gets filled by a veteran if he gets hurt.

 

[Henkka]

Very very few rookies outplay vets for top 6 roles out of the gate except McDavid level guys.

Most rookies start in the bottom 6 in a slot that was intentionally left open for them, are insulated and then move up from there.

Valeno should have a bottom 6 role specifically left open for him that INLY gets filled by a veteran if he gets hurt.

Spot on.

You can look on Nikita Kucherov, first half of the rookie season as 21-year-old in AHL, then up.

Played 52 games with 13:07 ice-time, scored 9+9=18 points. Had some chance also on PP (scored 4 pp points). That's was borderline 3rd/4th line minutes he got. 10th most of forwards.

At next season, as 22-year old, Kucherov is 3rd best scoring forward for Tampa, playing 14:57 per game. That's 3rd line minutes, 8th most of forwards. FILPPULA and CALLAHAN (+Stamkos) played on 1st line minutes...

On his 3rd season, as 23-year old, he is the best producer, playing 18:13 at 1st line minutes.

That's how Tampa "ruined" his development. Using useless vets in front of Kucherov. He just learned from them, had easier matchups and minutes for 2,5 seasons, then pulled away. After that he became the game's best producer per ice-time he has been since. McDavid can't match on that, only plays more minutes to equal the scoring.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Spot on.

You can look on Nikita Kucherov, first half of the rookie season as 21-year-old in AHL, then up.

Played 52 games with 13:07 ice-time, scored 9+9=18 points. Had some chance also on PP (scored 4 pp points). That's was borderline 3rd/4th line minutes he got. 10th most of forwards.

At next season, as 22-year old, Kucherov is 3rd best scoring forward for Tampa, playing 14:57 per game. That's 3rd line minutes, 8th most of forwards. FILPPULA and CALLAHAN (+Stamkos) played on 1st line minutes...

On his 3rd season, as 23-year old, he is the best producer, playing 18:13 at 1st line minutes.

That's how Tampa "ruined" his development. Using useless vets in front of Kucherov. He just learned from them, had easier matchups and minutes for 2,5 seasons, then pulled away. After that he became the game's best producer per ice-time he has been since. McDavid can't match on that, only plays more minutes to equal the scoring.

Yup..

Lucas Raymond will not instantly be a top 6 forward in the NHL. He will start just like Datsyuk and Zetterberg did on the 3rd and 4th line and move up from there.

Our 3rd line should ALWAYS have 1 open slot for a skilled rookie until such time as we're winning cup after cup.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I believe Yzerman when he says "if the kids are ready, they will play" (paraphrasing).

Namestnikov, Gagner, Stephens are all easily bumped down if they get outplayed. Smith isn't a lock for a lineup spot, could be 13th forward.

I don't expect Raymond to seriously be in consideration for a day 1 lineup. I'd be surprised. But I think both Veleno and Berggren could make that push.

Exactly this, especially about the Yzerman quote, imo. Though for me I'm 60/40% on Ray from Day1. Not saying he def. makes it out of the gate (Blash), but barely gets in over Frans/Smitty/Gagner, possibly Namestnikov. He can shine 5on5 & PP2 where the others can't.

@OgeeOgelthorpe The Vomit-worthy lineups are for illustration purposes to show how out of touch MSM is, even NHL Network (sadly) vs. HF boards.

 

[NickH8]

Exactly this, especially about the Yzerman quote, imo. Though for me I'm 60/40% on Ray from Day1. Not saying he makes it out of the gate (Blash), but barely gets in over Frans/Smitty/Gagner, possibly Namestnikov. He can shine 5on5 & PP2 where the others can't.

@Bench The Vomit-worthy lineups are for illustration purposes to show how out of touch MSM is, even NHL Network (sadly) vs. HF boards.

Generalized hockey media is always bad at being super specific on one team. They simply can't focus all their time on one team so you get lineups like that.

 

[Pavels Dog]

@Bench The Vomit-worthy lineups are for illustration purposes to show how out of touch MSM is, even NHL Network (sadly) vs. HF boards.

NHL network noted that Dekeyser is one of the young players on defense that will grow with experience. I thought that was a pretty nice insight.

 

[NickH8]

NHL network noted that Dekeyser is one of the young players on defense that will grow with experience. I thought that was a pretty nice insight.

I didn't know it was 2014

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

NHL network noted that Dekeyser is one of the young players on defense that will grow with experience. I thought that was a pretty nice insight.

Grow into an old man maybe, probably overnight. Hey it happens.

 

[Bench]

@Bench The Vomit-worthy lineups are for illustration purposes to show how out of touch MSM is, even NHL Network (sadly) vs. HF boards.

Oh thanks. But I get all my hockey lineups from Maureen Dowd and Audie Cornish.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Generalized hockey media is always bad at being super specific on one team. They simply can't focus all their time on one team so you get lineups like that.

You'd think it'd be easy for those in the biz though. Former players & execs, scouts & NHL staffs, agents etc. Maybe they're too close to the action to see the truth(s), not being able to step back & see the big picture.

TSN & SN are still the best, but far from perfect. NHL Network is decent, but also throws up stinkers at times. Dobber can be insightful etc.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Oh thanks. But I get all my hockey lineups from Maureen Dowd and Audie Cornish.

Lol, I meant to tag @Ogee Ogelthorpe, not you. Nevertheless, MSM/fakenews lineups, hahaha! (actually had to google who they were)

 

[Frk It]

Kicking around a couple possibilities.

Option 1
Bertuzzi-Larkin-Vrana
Berggren-Suter-Zadina
Fabbri-Rasmussen-Erne
G Smith-Stephens-Pearson

Option 2
Fabbri-Larkin-Vrana
Bertuzzi-Suter-Zadina
Berggren-Veleno-Erne
Rasmussen-Stephens-G Smith

Option 3
Bertuzzi-Larkin-Vrana
Fabbri-Veleno-Suter
Berggren-Rasmussen-Zadina
G Smith-Stephens-Erne

(Sorry Namestnikov...)

 

[Snuggs]

Yzerman and the Wings are a zero controversy team. No f***ing way does Jake Virtanen ever put on the Winged wheel. You can file this idea under "shit that will never happen."

And apparently it was multiple sexual assault accusations.

Yeah I think everyone can agree he's not coming here. I didn't know he was up to that kind of business.

 

[Henkka]

I'd like to see those lines already used at Guelph at 2014 and our Traverse City lines:

Fabbri - Suter - Bertuzzi
Veleno - Rasmussen - Zadina

It will leave
Vrana - Larkin - XXX for the top line (hopefully we see Raymond or Berggren in here at pre-season at least)
and
Smith - Stephens - Erne on the 4th

5th line would be
Namestnikov - Nielsen - Gagner

I don't know how it will turn from the season start. One preseason injury and all will be changed. Waiver exempt send to Griffins etc.

 

[Gniwder]

On elite prospects which i go by he's listed at 183 lbs.

Well shit then, let's put him on the first line, can't be worse than Brome.

Now I really want to run Berggren-Joey-Raymond as 3rd line. It'll be more entertaining than any line with Raz or Vlad.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Did the facts hurt you?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Well shit then, let's put him on the first line, can't be worse than Brome.

Now I really want to run Berggren-Joey-Raymond as 3rd line. It'll be more entertaining than any line with Raz or Vlad.

that all-rookie 3L was also 1 of my ideas. I'm comfortable since JV is a solid 2-way C who skates like Bart Lebda, but more gracefully.

Erne can boost his stats on L1. L2-Guelph.

Boom!

Namestnikov-Stephens-Ras
Smitty

Pearson-GR/1st callup

Gagner & Nielsen - Greyhound Bus

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Did the facts hurt you?

Did you read my response where I discussed how literally every NHL team has a skills coach dedicated to...

wait for it...

Coaching skills?

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Did you read my response where I discussed how literally every NHL team has a skills coach dedicated to...

wait for it...

Coaching skills?

Nope. Who is the Red Wing coach teaching players how to skate and shoot?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Nope. Who is the Red Wing coach teaching players how to skate and shoot?

Brandon Naurato.

 

[Bench]

Did you read my response where I discussed how literally every NHL team has a skills coach dedicated to...

wait for it...

Coaching skills?

I don't know how anyone could watch a high level practice and not see these guys doing specific drills and training good habits on fundamentals. This is true of virtually every sport, too.

From a goaltending perspective, that process is never truly done. The practice times aren't just used for mindlessly stopping pucks, but mindfully keeping fundamentals clean and crisp. And an astute coach can identify sloppy footwork or poor angles and help correct those blind spots.

The same goes for skating, stickwork, and any number of skills for players. These guys don't hit the NHL and just coast the rest of the way on their talent. Good gravy. I don't even understand the argument.

Yeah, Jagr probably did less skills coach work in his day to day than in his younger years. I guess he got you there.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Brandon Naurato.

He's a prospect development coach. Not an NHL player coach. Of course they develop prospects.

 

[NickH8]

I'd like to see those lines already used at Guelph at 2014 and our Traverse City lines:

Fabbri - Suter - Bertuzzi
Veleno - Rasmussen - Zadina

It will leave
Vrana - Larkin - XXX for the top line (hopefully we see Raymond or Berggren in here at pre-season at least)
and
Smith - Stephens - Erne on the 4th

5th line would be
Namestnikov - Nielsen - Gagner

I don't know how it will turn from the season start. One preseason injury and all will be changed. Waiver exempt send to Griffins etc.

I think Vrana - Larkin - Raymond has the potential to be a killer line. All three have speed and agility, finish and playmaking, and Larkin and Raymond are both good puck retrievers (Raymond moreso than Larkin). It's the rare first line that won't need a Hyman to "pull the piano"

 

[Bench]

He's a prospect development coach. Not an NHL player coach. Of course they develop prospects.

He linked you an article that has Dylan Larkin quoted as working with Naurato on skills.

No, he didn't teach Dylan how to skate. That doesn't mean he's not giving valuable input into fundamentals that can help his game.

But I've been working with Brandon Naurato with a couple other pro guys about goal scoring and on my one-timer as well."

Things like refining a one-timer, something hockey kids practice from a young age but still keep practicing when they are already NHL pros, apparently. I'd call shooting the puck a fundamental skill, but maybe I'm old fashioned.